Leaderboard

When I was with wierwille on his motor coach in May 1981, he stopped reading my deprogramming account, paused and directly fixated his gaze upon me, and said............. "Your parents will be dead in 5 years for having done this to you." Imagine how that jolted me. For nearly 17 years, I had been indoctrinated into believing that Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille walked with God and was "the man of God" for this day and time. He received revelation from God.......and, he was the man who could "reach up into Daddy's cookie jar" anytime, anywhere. Throughout the corps indoctrination program, our corps coordinators emphasized and demanded strict adherence and obedience to leadership. Wierwille was the "ultimate leader" of the cult........and, in May 1981, I was in his private motor coach and he was uttering a prophecy of the death of my parents. So.........I counted down the years. Throughout these years, I had NO contact with my parents......except to send them an announcement of my marriage to my bride. I did not invite them to our wedding. I knew that was not within the realm of possibility for them to accept.......and come sit in the BRC at our wedding. So, obviously..........our relationship became estranged, and cold, and distant. Yet, each year......I reflected on wierwille's "prophecy" and thought, ".....Is this going to be the year of their deaths? How will they die? Will it be significant or "biblical in nature".......so that I can see the judgment of the Lord on their actions? And, I at times, pondered..........."What if this was a false prophecy and wierwille was just speaking presumptuously?" God forbid that I harbor a dissenting view of wierwille's prophecy and doubt that it would come to pass. THAT would make wierwille a false prophet. The years passed quickly..........and four years later, in May 1985........wierwille was DEAD. Still, I waited..........waiting for year number 5. May 1986 came and went...........and my parents were STILL alive. Five years had passed and the prophecy did not come to pass. Now what? Should I give "this prophecy" a little wiggle room and wait till the end of the year? Maybe, just maybe.......wierwille was "off by only a little." No. Wierwille said, "Your parents will be dead in 5 years for having done this to you." These words were burned into my conscience, because wierwille had spoken them directly to me. After years of studying scripture and going thru corps training, prophecy was something that was absolute and the markings of the holy spirit in action. Many believed that wierwille had the gift ministries (plural)......teacher, prophet AND apostle. Yet, are we not to take the Deuteronomy record into account that IF the prophet's words do not come to pass, then he has spoken presumptuously.......and be NOT afraid of him. Now what? This was May of 1986. And, three months later, Geer takes the stage at Corps Week and reads "The Passing of a Patriarch." Patriarch? Was wierwille our "Father in the Word?" Was wierwille our father in this cult? And, Geer said that we'd forsaken wierwille and needed to get back to the Word that he had taught us. Questions and more swirling questions. Who you gonna believe? Men who speak great swelling words of vanity or your own eyes (and ears)? As of that May 1981 "prophecy".............my Dad lived another 27 years. As of that May 1981 "prophecy".............my Mom lived another 34 years. .

Skyrider, that’s weird and creepy of wierwille to do that…I’m glad your parents outlived the supposed prophecy of doom…imagine if you would have countered that with the nifty PFAL-if-you-got-your-ears-clogged-you’ll-be hearing-from-heaven-another-way old switcheroo - - by snapping right back at him “God’s not saying my parents will go but that you will go – you’re my ‘father in the word’, remember?” == == == == yeah I miss my dad too - - and I'm thankful we got to connect after years of my being involved in a cult and even through his PTSD from the war. Happy Father's Day to all !!!

The Way International is NOT a supermassive black hole – though they do exert a sneaky "gravitational force" that keeps trying to pull you back in. This thread is all about the deceitful and manipulative ways that TWI uses to get new recruits as well as the underhanded methods they employ to retain them. Anyone that gets within their sphere of influence might get sucked in if they are unaware of what hides behind the treacherous attraction. TWI is almost like a black hole a region of space-time exhibiting such strong gravitational effects that nothing — not even particles and electromagnetic radiation such as light— can escape from inside it. Once you are sucked in to a cult it’s usually harder than hell to get out. And even after you’re out it might take some time to unravel and abandon the complicated mindset and habit patterns…and if you still enjoy reading the Bible like I do - - there’s also those familiar little “pop-ups” that come to mind when reading certain passages – wierwille’s phrases that were practically ingrained in my head through repeatedly listening to the PFAL class. But it all begins nice and easy - there is the love-bombing, talking up the benefits of the class, the excitement of being part of something bigger than myself. Given enough time and circumstances, I think the newness…the romance or honeymoon fades away. A follower slowly awakens to what they really married into – a legalistic, abusive, deceptive, manipulative, and exploitative organization. Now a different set of “mysterious forces” come into play. Lest you become tempted to “turn your back on God” (aka the ministry that taught you “the word”), by this time The Way International has already taken the necessary steps to wring a lifetime commitment out of you. If there’s anything to the theory of graviton particles - which speculates that they mediate gravitational interaction - then perhaps TWI’s “graviton particles” are the subtle implications of certain teachings that lay the groundwork for fear, guilt, and a host of other manipulating mechanisms. They set up followers to be compliance oriented. Recently I was thinking about the love-bombing thread as well as the other manipulative tactics that The Way International used to rope people in. Coincidentally I was listening to (repeatedly…uh oh ) a cover of Muse’s 2006 song “Supermassive Black Hole” done by 2 Cellos and featuring Naya Rivera (known for her breakthrough role on Glee). I love the music – it’s addictive…and goes perfectly with the theme of the song…thundering overpowering instruments that portend some catastrophic event. The song is about a toxic relationship – the person realizes the attraction to someone else is mostly based on a bunch of lies – and the person has a fatalistic attitude about it – like the immense power of supermassive black holes that wield incredible influence over their galaxies – to get sucked in was inevitable…trapped in a toxic relationship - with no foreseeable way to escape. I usually focus on the instrumentation of a tune – but the more I listened to it I kept wondering what did they say in this line or that – so I googled the lyrics and You Tube and after much constellations I felt expired to write this post (take that Norm Crosby fans ). The more I looked over the words to the song the more I saw similarities to being in a manipulative cult. I thought this particular clip would be entertaining and helpful since it has the words across the bottom: I think the sentiment in this song is applicable to anyone who’s been in TWI for a while and has become aware of their tactics of deception and manipulation; as seen in some of the song’s phrases I’ll comment on: “…You caught me under false pretenses…the queen of the superficial...how long before you tell the truth” folks get sucked into TWI by the love-bombing , the sales pitches for supposed benefits of their classes, the fabricated stories of phenomena, exaggerated or embellished stories of success as well as the sweet veneer of Christianity. “how long before you let me go?” – the feeling of being trapped and thinking of TWI as almost like a custodian of my fate. Whatever they say will happen to me are the supposed consequences of my believing - something to be feared ...nice little trick though - it really was a self-imposed mental prison - but I was not aware that I was the only one that could let myself go free...I can't really leave until they say it's ok to do so...which they never will, of course...especially if you were in the way corps - it's a lifetime commitment to Christian service. “Ooh, you set my soul alight” – is an interesting choice of words; it can have a double meaning – perhaps the songwriter meant it as such to convey the twofold tension in the attraction – I dunno – just guessing here …anyway …the word “alight” could mean to set the soul on fire - to be filled with passion or have an immense desire to achieve something – I think of when I first got involved – I was naïve and idealistic ...thought I could change the world with what I knew from PFAL … but “alight” can also mean to settle down or perch – as if the soul was in flight – on a journey – but has now settled down inside this supermassive black hole…I can relate to that too. I believe I’m on a journey through life – and my time in TWI was an unanticipated detour…or maybe it was more like a layover…12 fvcking years sitting at a crummy two bit airport. “Glaciers melting in the dead of night and the superstars sucked into the supermassive” the inevitability of succumbing to overwhelming forces…whether it’s slow and almost imperceptible like glaciers melting…the honeymoon phase of cult involvement – personal boundaries are softened, personal preferences and goals are slowly dissipated - giving way to the greater good – i.e. what does the ministry need me to do?...- If you’ve entered one of their programs (The Way Corps, WOW, Fellow Laborers, etc.) the indoctrination process was a lot quicker - like a superstar being sucked into a supermassive black hole! As my father-in-law (who was in the Seabees) would often say when there was something that needed to be done or maybe he just wanted something done “get with the program”. Part of the indoctrination process of any of their programs also reinforced blind obedience..."going with the flow" is allowing gravity to take over...it's all downhill from there == == == == == == == Toward my later years in TWI, I think one of the strongest “gravitational pulls” that kept me in line was a fear of what would happen to me if I left…”tripped out”. Many of us have heard wierwille’s go-to passage for instilling fear in followers. In John 13 Jesus predicts his betrayal during an evening meal with the disciples, then “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.” (verse 30) wierwille twisted the double meaning of “it was night” - stating unequivocally that the only alternative to the ministry that taught you the rightly divided word was oblivion...so when I thought of my future – I would never picture myself ever leaving the ministry. The possibility of tripping out was not an option as far as I was concerned. Thinking of a scenario like that was almost like entertaining thoughts of suicide. My life, my dreams, my identity, my hopes were all wrapped up in the ministry. I dare say, the opposite of what wierwille said may be closer to the truth. Wierwille/TWI ARE the oblivion - a supermassive black hole - once you are sucked in – you are unaware of reality…oblivious to what matters because you are stuck inside a grand delusion – wierwille’s delusion…a real oblivion – a realm that is void of truth and reality – a parasitic vacuum that sucks all the resources out of anything that gets within its gravitational pull. “Even light cannot escape” ? – well, I wouldn’t go that far in applying this analogy – but I will say this – thinking about wierwille’s scripture twisting to suit his own agenda - very little light or truth was able to escape his lips…and woe unto anyone who accepts his viewpoint…As Jesus once said “If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!” (Matthew 6: 23). In other words, if you think wierwille has enlightened you – then you really are in a heap of supermassive darkness. New York Translation: you’re totally fvcked, dude ! One of the many great things about Grease Spot is that it truly is a light for those wanting to escape the dark netherworld of The Way International. Grease Spot tells the other side of the story…this has been another slice of my story…I was wondering if anyone else has anything to add…feel free to chime in…need a little direction? What was it that first got you thinking there might be a life for you beyond TWI? Besides any strong social bonds with family and friends in TWI – what was it that kept you from leaving when you first began to realize the ministry was not what it seemed? Were you ever afraid that bad things would happen and your life would fall apart if you left? If you’re still involved with TWI I would like to say there is still hope…there’s always hope…perhaps you’ve read things on other threads that resonate with you…have you thought about leaving? What is it that’s holding you back from taking the first few courageous steps to leave?

I had a pet rock that got more revelation than Wierwille. The man was a blowhard. Happy Fathers Day to all.

For perspective, I would simply ask how any of the discussion of dispensations/administrations and such has anything to do with the thread title/subject? This seems to now belong in the doctrinal forum.

He offers basically Preterism - and depending on one’s view of Preterism , the Book of Revelation can be interpreted as all or most of the events have already happened - speaker says Nero was the beast - and his “mark” on your person was what gave you access into the market place.

It's his own personal take on what the mark of the beast is. He offers no solid historical or scriptural basis for his opinion.

Thank you Waysider. Thank you T-Bone. And thank you Skyrider for starting this thread. Given that critical thinking is the antithesis of the Wierwille mystique, it should surprise no one, especially here at GSC, that the R&R RR is stuck in neutral. Anyone who tries to duplicate -- albeit refine and distill the organizational model back to how it was in the good old days of TWI -- has ZERO chance to establish a thriving fellowship centered on godliness. At it's core, the model of bombarding "students" with hours and hours of bible teachings, in which they ONLY are given information and expected to absorb it, can do very little critical thinking. To build churches, fellowships, and a way corpse that would actually be better described without the letter "e" in the title, would have to honor the students with the dignity of allowing them to think... critically. The approach is called, Socratic. The student is actively engaged and CHALLENGES the teacher. But if the teacher cannot cope with that kind of student, you get cults instead. Does that make sense?

The splinter groups will continue to market the wierwille mystique and his legacy..........to bring notoriety to their doorstep and money to their coffers. Wierwille was a showman and a storyteller. He trafficked in deception and exploiting others thru the subtle power of spiritual abuse. He traveled up and down the highways searching for the new shtick that would arrest the public's curiosity and attention.......wherein, he could run full-throttle with his narcissism. From retreats to seminars to camps farthest out, wierwille was intently looking for a pyramid of his own making. The youth had the time, and zeal, to make things happen. And, when the youth leaders [Way West / Way East] surged forward with throngs of people, wierwille walked into those meetings and power-grabbed their movements for himself. The revisionist history that accompanied his "God-ordained greatness" was a slick ploy to build this mystique of "the man of God." Yet, in reality.......Wierwille's legacy is one of stealing, exploiting, and destroying others for his own opportunity. Splinter groups need to keep the wierwille-mystique in place........thus, they will not abandon him, nor will they come to GSC and step into the area of open discussions on the matter. Mystique only plays well in shades of grey.......not in open sunlight.

sky, what a crystal clear picture you have drawn with these words. I believe this paragraph, more than anything else I have seen here at GSC concerning the R&R group founders, explains the response we received to my email of issues from some of you here. All I can do is hang my head, shaking it lightly, in utter disappointment. I have many friends involved with them. I am not actually involved, but I do listen to the phone teachings. My interest in them is severely diminished. "Warts, sexual predator and all.......they can't stop riding on his coattails." Yes, they all seem to be doing that, including my friends.