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"And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here." In other words, YOU come to us. We are not going to find you (and apologise). No, Jacque. YOU come here, you apologise. You will get a lot of flack. But you might find a little forgiveness or compassion, too, IF if if you are humble enough. You will need to LISTEN and not to (pretend to) preach.

WW, IMO, the GSC is a place where people try to tell the truth about their experiences with TWI. Some of us had great experiences in it, and many of us had horrendous experiences in it. I had some great times in TWI, and some terrible times in it. But, what I really value about the GSC, is that people don't try to romanticize their experiences in it; their experiences were theirs. I think the R&R group is trying to Bullsheet people, by talking about how loving, and sincere they are. Where was all their love, and sincerity, 40 years ago?? They knew a lot of what went on behind-the-scenes, and did nothing about it. Now, 40 years later, they want to "teach The Word?" What have they been doing for all these years?? They have had years to teach, and now they want to do what they should have been doing for decades?? Forgive me, but I don't like being lied too for years, and years. Nuts to them!

No it didn't. Nor did he put something up and THEN ask for donations to keep it running. He put together a (free) Facebook page. Before spending $20 on all the costs of a webpage and domain, he wants to raise all $20 of it- or more, probably. Compare that to the GSC, where Paw put it all together out-of-pocket.

If one is determined to only find the negative at the GSC, that's what one will find. It's not honest and lacks integrity, but this should come as no shock by now. It's really cute the way these splinters like to refer to the GSC and explain why they're not going to explain. Lots more people got deliverance here and got on with their lives than they've actually HELPED. Perhaps it's "deliverance envy". The GSC has a proven track record lasting more than 20 years, and they spent the last 20 years as drones to the twi cadre and hurting people whenever they were told to. Either they did that knowing they were hurting the people- and were fine with it because they kept it up for DECADES- or they hurt people for decades and had no idea they were ruining people's lives. Either way, that track record should disqualify them all from leading ANYTHING. But, no, they've silenced their consciences over the decades, so they see nothing wrong with what they did- only with someone pointing it out! Just like with vpw, where his rapes were forgivable, but bringing them to light was inexcusable!

Well, that's certainly convenient. Because if salvation is lost for the born again believer who rejects God then certainly they lose their holy spirit and no longer have the ability to SIT. Off to the Great White Throne judgement and the second death for this now unsaved, previously saved individual. Dan is unbelievable on this stuff. He pulls the cornerstone of eternal life from his pyramid and expects it to stand. Geez.

Absolutely. I felt the same when Craig announced his stepping down. I walked away from the phone hookup and thought, "Oh, well". That was it. He's just a guy, and I certainly didn't have him on a pedestal. Some folks around me were devastated because they DID have him on a pedestal. But what it showed me was how easy it is to get off track, just like Eve did.

That's probably the saddest commentary anyone could make.

Blessed putrid be the fruit!

I got to the point where I hated that phrase. It made me feel guilty that I was never doing enough to "Move the Word".

The jargon controls the person. I would agree that almost any phrase is better. Yeah "the Word of God is the will of God" is another meaningless dumb catch phrase. When someone quotes that to me I feel like telling them they should go find one of the long "begat" sections and f off because it's God's will for them.

Mormons. How do Mormons "move the Word"???? I think they have a very well formulated plan. They dress up their youngsters in ridiculous looking monkey suits and send them out in the world without transportation. If they are rich, they go to an exotic place like Japan. If they are poor, they go next door to Iowa. Then they spend the next 2 years biking around being ridiculed by the world. After this, they are thus prepared to be a Mormon for the rest of their adult life.

Stupid jargon phrase. Anyway, I don't know anybody except TWI that uses that phrase. Maybe, "speaking the Word" or "speaking the gospel" is better. In church we talk more about "outreach" or "evangelism." One of my favorite "hated phrases" is "the Word of God is the will of God." Sounds good. Pretty meaningless, at least in the way TWI used it.

Well, Wierwillie was to take the place of the absent Christ in that formula... and look at how perversely it played out. IOW, the way VeePee indoctrinated the way corpse to be slaves to him and twi was to teach that they were to be slaves to God and Christ. But God doesn't require us to give up our free will (agency) to any old con man or woman.

And, apparently, not slaves to Christ, either.

I echo your sentiment about my way disciple experience, and that was only 6 months.

That deserved to be highlighted.

Btw, in case anyone didn't see my rant on the thread about Dan G in the Offshoots forum, here's the link. Essentially, it was a quick work up on the question Taxidev raised suggesting he hadn't found anywhere in the bible that suggested Paul believed that when he was being financial supported by believers, he (Paul) believed he should be accountable, besides to God, to those believers also. In part, VeePee taught "his" corpse to be slaves... unfortunately, slaves to him, not slaves to believers they wished to minister to...

Ever hear what that was about? vpw made some offhand comment about how he broke the breath-mints he was using at the podium. So, someone decided that what vpw wanted was broken mints, so broken mints started showing up all over the place for him. Then he mentioned at one podium that all he could find were these little fragments. Someone replied that they were getting him the broken breath-mints like he used. "I mean I break them IN MY MOUTH!" vpw didn't want someone to pre-break his breath-mints. He was hiding breath heavy with alcohol and cigarettes, so he took a breath-mint in his mouth and bit it in half, releasing all the mintiness in a few seconds rather than slowly. (That's what you do to hide a really extreme reek.) But since he castigated people who asked him ANY clarifications (as if it was THEIR faults if HE communicated vaguely), and he put forth that his whims and "suggestions" should be taken as "commands", people were stuck trying to read his mind and determine his intent, then try to carry it out.

So, you're saved as long as you do what I say. If you don't God Almighty will revoke your eternal life. Yes, that's certainly an EVIL doctrine. I bet that was quietly buried in the middle of some teaching where it was camouflaged nicely with some Bible verses.

Anyone else catch this little bit from the end of that video? At 56:10 (God granted me the ability to find it within 1 minute of where I restarted the video - praise be!) Jackie H@rney "We don't want to burn any bridges. As far as... There's been people that have been cranky with us... But we love you. And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here. We are not going anywhere. We are not going to stop ministering... Because the gifts and the callings of God are without repentance. And we are not going to be bitter. We are not going to be starting a website about how bad everything is. We are going to be moving the Word. That's our life." So, DWBH... how does "Hi, Ralph" fit into this? Are you "cranky" with them? I laughed out loud when she made the comment about the website. Really, Jackie? Really? This site is a place people have gone to be healed from the rotting cesspool that is TWI. This is where I realized I had been drinking from a poisoned well. Facing that reality doesn't make me bitter. Calling out the evil doesn't make one bitter (or even cranky). Showing people that there is life after following a cult leader for years - that is not bitter. Shut the fridge up, lady - your sugar coating is starting to melt.

Biblical "research" is too easy these days. I went to 2 Corinthians 1 and found, 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort. 8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters,[a] about the troubles we experienced in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself. 9 Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many. Paul’s Change of Plans 12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity[b] and godly sincerity. (emphasis mine) Just curious, does it say ANYWHERE in those verses that the believers were responsible to give blowjobs on demand, provide bottles of Drambuie wherever Paul went, or make exhaustive rituals of breaking in the pages of a new bible? I think not. BUT... if one does read any of that in those verses, it would be for a specific "social contract" providing that Paul or any other of the ministers provide comfort which produces patient endurance in the believers. That would be in the category of "they shall know them by their fruit." If either Dan G or the R&R RR engineers aren't demonstrating anything tangible along those lines, then they don't deserve to collect dime one from the believers. -------------- I also just did an internet search on "biblical roots of servant leadership." The first thing that came up? Mark 10:42-45 42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Do you need me to do more of this for you? It has been 32 years since I earned my degree in accounting. I'm comfortable stating that Paul believed that when the believers financially supported him, HE was to be accountable not only to God (for Paul ministering with integrity) but also to those who provided the financial support. Easily I can also say that based on the longsuffering testimony of those who were NOT comforted by Bob Moneyhands, that Bob's ministry was NOT godly, at least in those instances where he heaped something other than comfort on the heads of believers. And as to the new "revelation" worked out by Dan Gallagher the guy who split from STFI, the notion that a person is only "saved" or granted "eternal life" if and to the extend that said person is obedient to leaders of a church is the epitome of evil. Because there can be no other purpose for that doctrine than to put chains on that person to keep him or her from self-actualizing. Too many thinkers throughout the last 2 millenia have recognized that reality. [/soapbox]

Just an extension of the bull$hit and bass-ackward perspective that the purpose of the leaves on the tree was to serve the "leaders." Though Wierwillie must have read in the bible about Jesus washing the feet of those to whom he ministered, he didn't "get it."

This R & R Railroad splinter group might become the most micromanaged, controlled group.......to come down the tracks. Time will tell. After all, Moneyhands, Forts, and Horneys took their marching orders from the corps director, martindale, and ran the corps thru the paces of an indoctrination program. What all did the Moneyhands see and allow to happen at the Indiana Campus? When wierwille came on campus......how many girls were escorted to wierwille's motor coach late at night? Or, the Forts at Emporia Campus? And, don't tell me that the Horneys stopped the pimping of girls to Cabin 12 when martindale came for his visits? So............these guys "ran with the wolves" who ravaged the flock. They not only turned a blind eye to the destruction of others........they followed orders to give the bum's rush knowing that lies and character assassination abounded. These guys were NOT watchmen over the Lord's heritage........ .........how could they be watchmen over the Word of God? Seems that their premise is to start another splinter group absent the micromanagement, policies and controlling factors of The Way. Yeah, riiiight. Well then, they are either clueless as to the depth of issues that should be addressed........or, they do NOT want to tarnish the wierwille brand by addressing the compounding doctrinal issues. By their non-admission of all these errors and evil............THEY ARE ALREADY CONTROLLERS AND CONTROLLING THE MESSAGE. The doctrinal issues in wierwille's ministry brought about its demise, as well. The Absent Christ......that's one of the cult's biggest foundational errors. Law of Believing........if it all works for saint and sinner alike, why do I need a savior? 7 Dispensations.......fundamentally flawed and sidestepping JC at every juncture. Adultery & Sexual Predation........why did NONE of the corps coordinators confront this?!! Cloning Corps...........the corps program was jaded from its inception. Etc. etc............

We are just like the Way - the same Word - except for without the politics, micromanagement, or controlling rules. So if you like the Way, or the Word in the classes you learned in the Way, but you don't like the controlling rules, this ministry is for you. -------------------------- Above was their approach.

Wow – I never heard of that…how exciting - - - not! ...well…I never turned a page for any of those knuckleheads…and don’t know if I could say I turned over a new leaf since I left The Way Tree...I ain't a leaf any more…let’s just say my life has turned the corner since I left TWI.

I'm glad I "turned the page" on the cult that initiated this type of reeediculousness.

Hey, Taxidev..........if that is what floats your boat, then go for it. Me? ........it has hypocrisy and sleaze written all over it. Imo, there is NO WAY these guys can step away from mother-cult international, and run their own mini-cult, praise-be-to-wierwille national with nothing other than smug hypocrisy. They simply are just late to the splinter party........following in the likes of geer, lynn, carr, finne-gang, seed, burton, wrenn, shroyer, clap-on, panarello, etc. etc. As far as I know, all those groups tell "their people" to stay off Greasespot........who needs those pesky questions and personal experiences exposed for all to see? Yet, you consistently come here and express your opinion in how "great" this new splinter is. Fact is......it belies decades of splinter-history. The red flags are flying and have been for decades. All those clichés, buzzwords, and tweaked teachings were red-light, cult-like seductions that have been exposed here at The Spot six ways to Sunday. I will never walk thru another door that has a twi-offshoot waiting to "teach me da word."