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A bit off topic now, given the (predictable) way this thread has gone, but I'm out tonight, beating the feet on the streets from about 9.30pm to about 3.30am. You folks here will easily be awake in those hours, given the time differences. So, if you think of it, please pray for -- the safety of our team and city (and the other teams out within the UK); the wisdom for us to deal with whatever we encounter; and for our tongues to speak words of peace and blessing to those we encounter. We as a team know we'll have a good time in each others' company.

That’s their problem. They think they’re right and everybody else is wrong. Same old nonsense. They talk about getting back to veepee’s original teachings/doctrine. They don’t realize that’s what got them in trouble to begin with. I know most of us here would love to see them repent according to the standard Jesus Christ spoke of. Sorry to say I don’t see it happening. I’d like to be wrong. I’m not holding my breath.

Nice insight here DWBH. I believe what they think is "the Word" in their minds is not much that God is involved with, and more of the consistency of "doing what they always have done" and trusting God to sort it out. Which is akin to the definition of stupidity. Doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result.

Right. vpw claimed he didn't care about the money lots of times- when the microphone was on. When it was off, you'd better have all your payments current- and he lived with twi's budget as his slush fund. He didn't live strictly off his salary, he used twi resources and called them "MY STUFF", he called for cash when he wanted to spend some, and he was given a donation in untraceable dollars when he visited places because they passed the hat around. But OFFICIALLY, he didn't care about the money. As for these people, they stayed when all the chickens came home to roost, they stayed when all the exodi occurred, and they only jumped ship NOW as they approached the twilight of their years with no retirement fund or security, while knowing twi kicked out Mrs W and she spent her final years in a nursing home rather than be cared for in her home at twi expense. They knew it was only a matter of time before it was their turn. So THIS triggered their leaving. They were well aware of many old-time leaders who pointed out corruption and problems and were kicked out- they helped do some of the kicking rather than join those leaving. They could even have slipped out quietly, Their actions-and the timing thereof- speak very loudly. I can't hear their sincere-sounding apologies over them, in fact.

Sure! Go right ahead. They’ll NEVER discuss anything with me until they genuinely REPENT as their “Word” repeatedly instructs them to, in both “Testaments”, and however many “administrations, dispensations, or stewardships” they want to add or subtract. Why? Because until they do so, their seared consciences will continue to rule that nest of vipers. They know I know what they are guilty of. As long as they deny the very behaviors and actions that cause their guilt, and do not summon up the humility required to not pridefully resist the Lord Jesus Christ, I know they will NEVER have the character or courage to do what Jesus would do! Jesus is not known to them. He is ABSENT in their false doctrine, and in their attempt at living as He taught us we can and should. Their God is a collection of ancient books, scrolls, papyri, manuscripts, texts, interpretations, and fantasies which, when jumbled together by an intellectually vapid and incoherent drunk, form the entire basis of their anti(against)-Christ doctrine, practice, and fellowship. Their VERSION of a non-existent “Word” with a capital “W”. LOL! That “Word” is their source of righteousness. That “Word” usurps the word made flesh by God Almighty, for the salvation of ALL human beings. That “Word” is their false idol, and they worship it more than they worship Jesus Christ. He is just a name for them, by which they can “claim” their own lusts and greeds in false prayer, or the name by which they seem completely unable to cast out devils, or bring about miracles and gifts of healing. How much of what Jesus taught is part of their daily lives? None of it was TO them so why bother?? Their “bema” won’t be some golden Olympic throne of “rewards”. Their brief time will be spent hearing “I never knew you”, over and over again. What works of Christ and greater have they done that you’ve witnessed since 1995? How much of their precious money has gone to help the homeless, feed the hungry, help their local communities without the ulterior motive of sucking them into some deranged bible teaching? How many have their glorious “gift ministries” healed, fed, clothed, and loved with the love of Christ? How many scholarships do they give their “living on a needs basis” young people to go to college? How many food drives, or clothing drives, or Thanksgiving Dinners, or Christmas gifts, have they collected and blessed their communities with? How much of THEIR “abundant lives” have they freely given to anyone besides each other?? Feel free to send them this missive also! It’ll give them something to feed on like rats in a subway of corpses of other rats. They can make themselves feel all superior to those of us who know and have witnessed their evil deeds and words, and have rejected their version of their “Word”. They’ll tell you how we’re all “bitter” or “angry” or “evil speaking” enemies of their “Word and Way”. Since they don’t have the courage or the character to come here and dialogue directly, maybe you can ask them if you can post their replies here at the GSC? That way you don’t have to be their mouthpiece either. Can’t wait to hear their response! Good luck, Taxidev!

Just some speculation on my part - but I think people are people - and I was going along the train of thought Waysider mentioned - I was trying to show the relevance of Paul’s situation to what many of us experienced after leaving TWI... ...it takes time and effort to undo the mental ruts that become a part of one’s life...and it varies from individual to individual — depending on how long and how much you were involved.

You made me think of that old proverb of a dog returning to its vomit...to which I have to ask - what if the dog never walked away from its own vomit?....another thing they like to do is roll on dead things and $hit... Hmmm ...we’re not just talking about dogs here, are we?

Some of them have been doing this stuff for almost 50 years. Realistically, what are the chances they will have a sudden realization they've been hoodwinked??

You got it!

By the time you got involved, nearly everyone who''s ever been in had left. Frankly, I'm shocked anyone new was attending as late as 2010, but there were darn few of you. There's more people attending splinter/ex-twi groups all together than currently attend twi, and more people who've left all of them than are currently in all of them put together including twi. The 1960s had few people in, but they still had people who left. Peter Wade never felt the need to tell us about it or break his anonymity, but he was one who attended then and left that early. The 1970s saw an explosion of new members since the hippies had been recruited- and they recruited lots and lots of people. All the growth of twi can be traced back to them and to the people THEY recruited. During the 1980s, early middle and late, there were plenty of old-timers who left (as well as new arrivals who arrived and left in the 1980s.) lcm insisted all the leaders either swear an oath of loyalty to follow him blindly (he confirmed that by phone to a poster here) or be kicked out- which is why 4/5 the leadership all left at once and were able to form new groups together. The 1990s still saw some of the old people retained, but A) they started the 1990s with 20% of the previous membership, and B) lcm was pushing his personal version of pfal which was inferior, and C) lcm kept making really STUPID policy decisions one after another, and people all got sick and tired of being sick and tired and slipped out the back door if they weren't kicked out one way or another over "genuine spiritual SUSPICION." So, by the early 00s, the membership numbers were under 5000 even including all children. Frankly, I'm amazed the group isn't entirely all just retirees who don't want to find a new church at their age. However, they ARE aging out and losing their remaining members to old age and death, so it's only a matter of time before the remaining membership isn't replaced with younger people.

Actually, I'm very interested in doing this BECAUSE of that reaction. I have saved your entire post, and I will be presenting it to them tomorrow. And I will share every detail with you here.

Taxidev was kind enough to PM me and check with me if it was okay to send my symbiotic arrangement post to the R&R group. I told him I appreciated him asking, and that it didn’t matter to me – but he may want to think about the reaction Don’t Worry received after contacting the MoneyHands…(see the above section of Don’t Worry’s post I quoted here). I think the only reaction he may get from anyone in that group over my little 2-bit cult analysis will be similar to the one in Acts 19:15 “Don’t Worry I know, and Penworks I know about, but who the fvck is T-Bone?!?!”

Right on! It was pure deception.

“Always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormented never the tormenter.” Ellie Wiesel, Nobel Laureate and Holocaust survivor.