Leaderboard

Or, as they used to say at the university: You spend four years in to the School of Engineering learning to ask the question, How can we make it? You spend four years in the School of Management learning to ask the question, What will it cost? And you spend four years in the School of Liberal Arts learning to ask the question, You want fries with that order?

I always heard: Philosophy gives you questions that cannot be answered. Religion gives you answers that cannot be questioned.

Waysider, thanks for that audio cast…very interesting stuff ! I like Dennett – he seems so at ease on the subject and kinda reminds me a little of Letterman…of late, I’ve become more interested in philosophy but feel lost most of the time – since I’m a latecomer – but Dennett has a way of making it seem accessible to me…if he’s like that in his books – I may just have to check out some of them: his “From Bacteria to Bach and Back”, “Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon”, “Science and Religion: Are They Compatible?”, and “Intuition Pumps and Other Tools for Thinking” (all look interesting so I put them on my Amazon wish list). Like you were saying and Dennett explains further - philosophy and religion is the approach you take when you don’t know the right questions to ask…Dennett also talked about science as an effort to seek truth – since it asks the right questions – which are usually very specific - like, how far away is that? .... What is that made of?... When did this happen? – and for that endeavor science often develops technological “prosthetics” (telescopes, microscopes, radio waves, Carbon-14 dating, etc.) in search of the truth… I think Dennett also mentioned that philosophy came long before the sciences were developed…guess you have to start somewhere…I’ve always had a love for science, even as a kid – but doggone it – I got sidetracked into giving religion priority over science when I joined The Way Ministry Grrrrrrrr …well, anyway – I’m trying out a new approach – where science takes precedence over religion as I attempt to draw (in pencil – it has an eraser at the other end, ya know ) a mental map of reality…maybe this goes along with what Chockfull said about it not having to be a science versus faith thing - - uhmmm I'm working on a synthesis, I guess…well, there you have it folks, my belief system in a nutshell. thinking about what Raf said – I like his honesty - entertaining questions about atheism being a religion – and I also related to something else he said – I have wondered if my getting out of a fundamentalist’s mindset was overreacting to TWI dogma – maybe a little bit – but – I think a lot of what motivates me to check out and really consider other ideas and viewpoints is simply the adventurous thrill of exploring the unknown. There’s some really intelligent sounding folks on that audio cast – I felt like a little kid eavesdropping on adults…I believe they’re talking about some very important heady stuff – but for now guess this little kid will just have to keep playing at philosophizing in my little world.

When I was in junior high school and beginning my journey into the higher levels of mathematics, I found myself completely lost. Oh,teachers would willingly offer to resolve any questions I had. I was so lost, though, that I didn't even know what questions to ask, much less how to articulate them. So, religion and philosophy are a bit like this. Not only about seeking answers but about finding the right questions to ask and learning to voice them. I stumbled on this audio cast recently that addresses this issue. It's quite a bit lengthy and I will understand completely if you pass on it. If you do happen to listen, please don't allow yourself to be intimidated by all the academic references. (I certainly am not familiar with almost all of them.) I don't think that's as important as trying to get a grasp of the total message being presented. I think it's appropriate for the discussion at hand. Your mileage may vary. HERE

I used to think that atheism was an overreaction to leaving The Way. In my case, it was a good long time between leaving TWI and rejecting theism, so I doubt very much that it can be categorized as "the psyche swinging the balance back the other way." I'm not saying that's impossible. I'm saying I don't see where the shoe fits in my particular case. For those reading who think this post may seem a little redundant, please check the time stamps. It's been two YEARS since I posted on this thread, so I'm not going to take for granted that folks are scrolling back. Nor am I particularly concerned about whether I'm consistent in my phrasing. People change in the way in which they articulate their positions. That said, to this day I entertain questions about whether atheism is a religion. Some questioners are benign and genuinely curious. Others are hostile and antagonistic. Most can't seem to grasp the idea that a government can actually be neutral about matters of faith. Neutrality about religion = hostility toward all religions except one, namely atheism. It's just not true, though. For government to embrace atheism, government would have to say flat out there is no God. I do not want agents of the government making such statements in their official capacities. It is not only disrespectful -- it can all too easily lead to depriving people of their constitutional rights. Atheism is a single answer to a single question: do you believe in gods? No. THAT'S LITERALLY IT. From there, an atheist can adopt any of thousands of philosophies or worldviews. They can be humanists, nihilists, anarchists, socialists, capitalists, racists, Buddhists (to a large extent) modernists, postmodernists, dentists, are you still reading this, and if so why. I think when most people make the claim that atheism is a religion, what they really mean is that non-theistic humanism is a religion. They're wrong. But they're not that wrong. Non-theistic humanism is a lot of things: a worldview, a philosophy, an approach to life. But it lacks the key ingredient that makes a religion: a belief in the supernatural. Rambling. Gonna get some sleep and tackle the rest at a later date. Do allow me to say, however, that the above post by chockfull is excellent.

So if we get to the place where we decide atheism IS a religion, then do we also have to go down the road of deciding whether it is an ORGANIZED religion or not? aka Dana Carvey's routine - "la, la, la ..... disorganized"? Many Christians will spout off a condescending view like "religion is man-made, Christianity is God-made". I've heard that one before. I mean I do believe the crux of Christianity is a personal relationship with your Savior, as opposed to becoming intimate with Greek, Hebrew, and politics, and that a bunch of smug b@st@rds make a money making scheme for themselves off of Christianity. But that quoted phrase itself carries judgment and condescension, which kind of shows the Christian with that viewpoint to have an innate value system where they see their own lives' value and that of their friends as on a different level than the rest of mankind. That is a dangerous, prideful viewpoint. And it is not Christ's viewpoint. Atheism could just be a rational objection to @$$h0l3s, in one sense. It could be the science versus faith thing. It doesn't have to be - the Jesuits are an organized arm of the Catholics towards that aim. They run colleges. Atheism for those leaving the Way could just be the psyche swinging the balance back the other way, to not accept blindly what people say. To go hard towards the evidence side. That is probably a more healthy overall view than a "Pollyanna believing" outlook without accountability or action. i was thinking about it, and I don't want to pigeonhole atheism into any one label, telling someone how they feel about their own life and thoughts. That's dumb. So I guess it could be a religion. Or it could be a reaction to a religion. Or it could just be a viewpoint and nothing else. If the rationality and logic are inspiring to a soul, more power to you.