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It's all good. I see with Mike's last post he feels he has a lot of personal issues in the sex area that he sees is preventing him from making good value judgements about Victor Paul Wierwille. Sorry to hear that. But I don't think I'll continue to emphasize that point beyond pointing out the obvious: 1. One does not "move the Word" with one's penis (or vagina - don't want to leave the ladies out) 2. One does not "move the Word" with other's revelation from God. Or other's work product. That is their revelation and their work. God gave it to them. Not you. Then they put in the work to develop it. So stealing it is still wrong.

"All you ever wanted to know about sex" - with practical lessons.

Which disqualifies him from making any value judgements about Saint Vic or his work. Would we trust the ruling of a judge or jury that said, at a trial, never mind the details of the crime, just tell me about the times the defendant was an upstanding citizen. What Mike fails to understand is that if he continues to push his Weirwille over the World agenda, he going to constantly be confronted with Saint Vic's sexual indiscretions. When Saint Vic started information wasn't a few mouse clicks away. Now, a few keystrokes and anyone can find out everything they would care to know about Saint Vic, The Way, or PLAF in lurid detail. So this will be a subject Mike will be vistiting again and again. Tell possible converts you have personal issues and that prevents you from making good value judgements about Saint Vic and the potential converts will tell you "okay" and go join the Church of Latter Day Smurfs or something. After spending 20 years trying to find a way around the stealing others work and bearing false witness issue, you would think Mike would have better answers. A few post back, Mike said: In war (which this was) the rules of man can be thrown away. Abraham Lincoln did it. Read the bible much? We've been a war since before Eden (part of the reason the snake tempted Eve). Were there abysmal men of the cloth before? I imagine so. The Scribes and Pharisees, who, though they held everybody to The Law, thought they were above The Law (sound familiar? Paging Saint Vic!) Paul, in Timothy, talks of the great falling away. How does Saint Vic's moment in the war differ from the rest of human history? Once again, you try to claim plagiarism is man's law. It's not. Not only does God tell us not to steal, He also tell us not to bear false witness (in this case, Saint Vic claiming he did something he didn't do, the textbook definition of plagiarism.). So it was God's law that was broken. Isn't amazing how God, in his foreknowledge saw there was going to be a plagiarism issue and he put those commandments in the bible to solve it once and for all?

Sorry to hear about his health. My personal interactions with the Lynns were not positive, and I don't support the direction he took with what I consider to be successive exploitive splinter groups, but in the least common denominator he is still a member of the body of Christ and a Christian brother. My prayers are with him and family - Pat is long since divorced, so is Elizabeth? second wife, story there is here through all the splinters and Momentus, STFI, dueling mind picture revelations, etc.

I don't need to make Elena out to be some self-seeking morally decrepit person. I'm sure she was very similar to many others of her time - sweet young hippie chick with stars in her eyes and altruistic goals. Dreams of journalism. She was taken by a pervy old con man. So were we all. But that drunken tale to impress her certainly did have some hang time!!!!!!

Hi Grace, Since words matter, I just want to say that it wasn't a matter of how smart you were or are. Looking back, a lot of smart people didn't leave as soon as they think they should have.

Hi WW. I think we can say that no, VPW did not cite his sources in a consistent, professional or scholarly way that would allow a reader of most of his work to track it. I used those three words deliberately - there are some references here and there but there is a notable absence of him foot noting sections of what he published under his name that were clearly and closely identical to other work of other writers and doing it consistently or in such a way that it would be on record. Nor did he observe professional and legal best practices in that area, nor educational standards. He did talk about them, at times. He referenced Bullinger, Leonard, etc. etc. but never in a way that credited them, nearly always making note that they had all somehow stepped into error at some point or stopped "believing" God at His Word. I think one of the likeliest reasons he did that was to support his claim that God would teach him like no other since etc. if he would teach that to others. If he referenced huge chunks of his ideas and language used to express them to others having it first it would erode that claim. The best thing he could have done was invite all critics including those he quoted, to question and negate his work if they so desired and then let the pieces fly as they might. That would have suited his two-fisted mans-man motorcycle riding personae he promoted. Instead he talked about it in ways that allowed him to "credit" them while making sure the listener understood they were not fit to judge his ultimate use of their words. Matthew 5 – "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' But I say to you, do not swear at all; neither by heaven, for it is God's throne nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one." "Honesty" is a moving target for a lot of people. In the Way it's reserved for "the truth of God's Word". Everything else to them is a "fact", unreliable and invalid. Facts are ignored and replaced by "what's the Word say?"....and of course the Word says to be honest and truthful in regards to our "facts". Jesus taught His followers to pursue honesty through clarity and performance. Say what you mean, mean it and do your best to do it. We're not going to perform a 100 per cent of that all the time, we know that, but any effort to redefine that blurs the reality Jesus led us to.

You might be curious about a few threads that might have some of the expressions you want.... "Third Aid and other twi catchphrases"- http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4372-third-aid-and-other-twi-catchphrases/ twi ii terms http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4470-twi-ii-terms/ Phrases to manipulate us with http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4620-phrases-to-manipulate-us-with/ Wayspeak and Greasespot-speak. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4350-way-speak-and-greasespot-speak/ http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4734-way-speak-and-greasespot-speak/ Wayspeak- Greasespot Cafe Dictionary http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4735-wayspeak-greasespot-cafe-dictionary/

Mike, I think many of us would be happy, for you to end it.

Poor Mike. Woe is Mike. Unless you bullies stop posting to him, he won't get his taxes done and you will be to blame [/snark]

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