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As far as I know you've changed the topic so much the thread got moved to a completely different forum. The only evidence you've expressed as to why VPW's plagiarism should be given a pass or simple slap on the wrist is that YOU were blessed. The same reasoning as any damned Wayfer. Which is the same argument as saying you got drunk, unknowingly ran over an entire family, and should be let go because you were just having a good time.

Hey Mike: Don’t flatter yourself with your fantasy that I am your “opponent” in some grand “debate”. I am NOT your opponent. I feel deep sorrow and pity for you, not opposition. I have already told you, again, way back on page 11, that trying to engage you in a serious discussion about anything TWIt’n’Dic is like administering medicine to the dead. ALL your “research”, “manifestos”, “statements”, “theses”, “TVTs”, “discussions” of 40-50 years ago, “learning” from Popular Science and Popular Mechanics, lie detector “experts”, quotes from “old grads”, your “theories” (e.g. “the pure evil theory” etc.), transcripts from 53 year old SNS tapes, quotes from piffle, elena’s post-sex book about dictor paul and his drunken bullshit hustle to get into her hippie underpants, revisionist wierwille-worshipping tripe, revisionist B.G., Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger stohrees, quotes from various syllabi and lullabies, and overt lying, dealing one unicorn fantasy after another from your never ending shue of bullshit, is totally self-absorbed and IRRATIONAL. Irrational, as in illogical, unreasonable, insane. I for one, really wish the good-hearted GSCers here trying to dialogue reasonably with you would simply stop doing so. Go down to Doctrinal and pontificate your “ancient”, “overlooked” garbage there. No one should bother answering you any where else, as it leads to an incredible waste of byte-space which YOU don’t pay for! The members and Paw pay for it. Stop wasting our money and bytespace outside of doctrinal. I implore my fellow GSCers to refrain from posting to Mike or responding to him anywhere but in the Doctrinal Forums. Then, folks who really want to keep dealing with Mike’s illnesses publicly know exactly where to find him, newbies don’t have to read his garbage in Open, Way Int’l, or Offshoots Forums, and we need only see it if we choose to. Saves everyone a helluva lot of time and agita! So Mike......this will be THE last post from me to or about YOU anywhere at the GSC outside of Doctrinal Forums. I’m old enough to spot irrational bullshit, psychiatric pathologies, and insane behavior, to know I’ve had my fill of them for this lifetime. This is no ad hominem attack Mikey. This is simply a fact-filled, reasonable assessment of your mental state as evidenced by your rambling, nearly incoherent “essays”, along with your erratic and annoying posting behavior. You’re a gentle soul. Thanks for keeping yourself in Doctrinal. Happy Resurrection Day. See ya in Doctrinal only. No more “BeHappy troops” up here. Bye now.

That's disappointing Mike. I HAVE repeated, repeatedly, the point about how the communication process works and that when you resort to telling people that they read you wrong, you fail at communicating YOUR message. My intent is to give you graceful a way out of the predicaments you put yourself in. [see Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People, Part Four, chapter Five] One chapter title is "When you're wrong admit it quickly and emphatically." [Part Two, chapter three] IF your intent is to get people to take your message seriously, wouldn't you have to get honest about your communication mistakes and problems? You've recorded your "thesis" on GSC but you've refused all efforts to get you to clarify your points. Are you an expert communicator? Haven't you admitted that you're not? When you refuse legitimate feedback by saying the reader read you wrong, you're missing a wonderful opportunity to LEARN how to communicate better.

Placeholder for any continuation of the plagiarism thread that started in "About the Way" and people wanted to move to here as a place for Mike to continue to present his viewpoint of PFAL being God-breathed and plagiarism being justified.

Dude a married minister propositioned the girl next to you in class and you give him a pass? The error here is not in me saying she was molested. In my view a married man who is a clergyman should not be "moving the Word" with his penis in any capacity - propositioning members of the public taking his classes. This set the pattern for what later would become in the Way quid pro quo sexual harassment. The problem here is not in me "assuming the worst". And it's not in me being "insensitive" to an old pervy adulterer. The bad versus the worst is enough to discredit the man, and sufficiently make my point about the blind eye you have turned to it ever since the beginning. The only God breathed Word I see attached to Victor Paul Wierwille's life and actions consists of one letter. Scarlet in fact. A

i remember coming to the realization that there was a ton more effort going into controlling a stupid Way mag article and even prolific greetings on phone hookups than there was in the poor copy transcription of a Sunday teaching that was printed up on his home press into a "collateral" to the PFAL class. And people were basing their lives off of that. Like for example the first chapter of the blue book, which everyone lauded to the sky. I had grown up reading Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power of Positive Thinking". This is an entire book developing further the concepts that the Vicster introduced in a measly few pages. And I saw plenty of crossover ideas there too. Peale was VP's contemporary. Sometimes, without brainwashing, you can actually see the poor quality of the original material that everyone worshipped for decades.

Mike is right. Sometimes there, right in the midst of reading through the details of his posts when you read them carefully, you come across a statement that just seems to out-shadow all the surrounding statements as to 'splaining things. That, along with his touching empathetic account of the Vicster sexually molesting propositioning someone in his first class and Mikey giving him a pass because the girl had problems too and didn't do anything to move the Word. For clarity sake, one does not "move the Word" with one's penis Mikey boy. See you in Doctrinal, joust master.

Rocky, Superman was a fictional character; Mike writes a lot of fiction. Perhaps, in this one case, he has a good point! LMAO!

I too, wholeheartedly agree that this topic should end HERE AND NOW. Mike seems to be having a field day while we continue answering the fool according to his folly --- which many of us realize isn't the wisest thing to do --- but we do it anyway, don't we? I'm done playing the fool for Mike's sake! Let us then forsake this 21-page Topic and answer Mike from the Doctrinal Section instead. This is my last post concerning Mike in Plagiarism on the road to success.

There’s some really good advice Mike. Hopefully you’ll heed the plea.

You know, all of this funkadelic discussion on plagiarism got me thinking about another common practice in the Way, that of using euphemisms. Like for example, Victor Paul Wierwille's research. Currently, the Way expresses Wierwille's blatant, widespread, and Machiavellian plagiarism as "he learned from many sources". This would be classified as a euphamism, as someone probably would be OK with taking a class from someone who has "learned from many sources". However, if you state the truth more plainly, not many would want to take a class from someone who "stole material like a starving robber jay at a campsite picnic table". So what experiences do you have from the Way with respect to "euphamisms"? eu·phe·mism [ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm] NOUN a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.The opposite of dysphemism. "“downsizing” as a euphemism for cuts" synonyms: polite term · substitute · mild alternative · indirect term · understatement · underplaying · softening · politeness · genteelism · coy term

Now you have me wondering also. But I really like how you make these connections.

Chock, I loved the book, "The Scarlet Letter, " by Nathaniel Hawthorne. I would never have thought about comparing VPW, to the adulterous minister, in the book. I see your point; both of them were "men of the cloth," who cheated on their wives. Very intresting post Chock.

Thomas all views are welcome sometimes views are more similar than you think but labels are divisive. I have far from reached my destination in Christology in view or practice. Thx for the references.

And I totally agree that the "ands" in Acts 2:1-4 consist of statements in a narrative event, which tie all of the individual clauses together to the same event.

I totally agree this is a summary statement, generally commenting upon how the believers conducted themselves --- and is not portraying the things mentioned in any progressive order.

Still have it and originally thought it was neat. Now I consider it propaganda. Likewise Harry Wierwille's book

"not spiritually mature enough" - or, "still hasn't finished their first glass of Kool-Aid."

Them: how would you like to get blessed? me: how much money do you need?

"Opportunity"... Them: "Sounds like you have an opportunity." Me: "No, what I have is a big freakin' problem."

I have mostly good memories of JAL from his time with TWI in NY. I also knew him a little while he was with CES. Again, mostly good. My prayers are with him as he goes through this. My wife has had three different cancers over the past 13 years. Hard to describe the toll it takes on individual and the family. Especially if it is advanced (Stage 3 or better). I personally find it hard to trust only homeopathic solutions. God has given us medicines for a reason. Praying for the best outcome possible.

WW, I didn't know VPW plagiarized the PFAL class, and it's books, until I read about it here, at the GSC. Personally, I thought the books, were poorly-written. If I was going to plagiarize something, it would be something worth, plagiarizing. Perhaps something from Steven Hawking, or Albert Einstein. That way, if I got caught, I would at least look intelligent. VPW IMO, looks stupid, for plagiarizing such low-quality Dreck. Well, I guess that is why I don't plagiarize; I would not want to look stupid!

DWBH, thanks for that great post ! yeah I'm done here

It's not style, it's a question of substance or lack thereof. If you think you've accomplished anything on par with Superman, then I'd have to agree with DWBH about your state of mind.

Jay, it is great advice. Hopefully, Mike will take it.

DWBH, excellent post!

Sweet!

Mike, give me a break. Point of view has nothing to do with it. It's right there in black and white. Did you even look at the comparisons? Wierwille clearly copied that material, almost word for word. Suppose the subject had been farm machinery or furniture repair, would it have been copying then or would that just be a "point of view"?

Yes, that IS interesting. I hadn't seen that correlation before - thanks for showing that. That makes perfect sense. The only thing I would think came as an after effect would be them speaking in tongues. They would have to have received holy spirit first. While I understand your point, I believe there are other instances in the bible of many ands that indicate a rapid succession of events, not that they happened all at once. I will have to look that up and post again to you.

DWBH, finally someone says what many of us think! Thanks!!

Again: This sums up Mike’s thousands of posts here in the last 16 years. Quoting Bette Davis from my last post on page 11(sic!) of this thread: Mike.....”YOU are so full of shit!”! Mike has accumulated as much credibility the last 15 years here as the Defendants in Stormy Daniels’ case against you-know-who. Here’s a brief musical interlude so Mike doesn’t get too bored! LOL! Okay. Back to our regularly scheduled post! This BS will go on as long as Mike comes here for free babysitting, and to alleviate what may be a crushing loneliness, or dire need for validation. Or, it may just be a crazy game he’s playing for his own condescending satisfaction at toying with those “lesser”, intellectually and spiritually than he? Or, he may just be really bored?? Either way......Mike....even after all these years and thousands upon thousands of your posts.......YOU are still so full of shit!...........More than ever! LOL!...............peace. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214804932574770&set=a.10214089284524016.1073741830.1169468755&type=3

Okay, Mike: I concede your point. And why can I do that? Because God told me to by revelation: But not direct revelation, mind you --- but from the revelation already written down for us to simply read. And just in case you're wondering what that is --- it's "agree with your adversary while you're in the way with him". And now that's out of the way (pun intended!) let's see what we've agreed upon together: By revelation from God, Victor took many a man's wife for his own and fornicated with many women who weren't yet married. (And even as Hillary Clinton condoned Bill's adultery, Dorothea appeared to do the same because...at least to my knowledge...she sure never spoke up against it --- did she?) By Revelation from God, Victor stole many a man's intellectual property by coping (often verbatim!) from their work, giving them no credit. That sure puts a damper on what I read in the Bible: "the workman is worthy of his reward". So, I guess Stiles and Bullinger, et al, weren't worthy of any credit for their own work, huh? (excepting from Victor's viewpoint, that is!) (Besides: Why work for something when you can just as well steal it and pass it off as your own work --- and get all the credit you crave from the ignorant and gullible!) By revelation from God, Victor deceived many people by attempting to hide his sins, even as Adam covered himself with a fig leaf. He failed to credit the authors he stole from, passing it all off as his own. (And he got lots of credit --- from many of his ignorant and gullible followers.) [Hmmm: Maybe that's my answer to his wife's position in all of this! Perhaps he told Dorothea to wear that fig leaf as well (conspiring with him to conceal his sin: by keeping the "sex-capades" a secret. And why? Probably for the overall good of his ministry...lest a scandal (and very likely, legal actions) would destroy his Way Thing!] (And btw: Such things didn't do LCM any good either, did they?) SO: He committed adultery and fornication, stole others' work and intentionally deceived people. And that's just the tip of the sinful iceberg! Hmmm --- Ya know what? That sounds more like what the Devil would do, rather than a so-called, self-proclaimed man of God. And again (simply declared, concerning the 10 commandments) here's the 9th: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (Ex 20:16) Bearing false witness describes how he pawned many of his writings off as his own work. AND #10: "Thou shalt not covet...any thing that is thy neighbour's." (Ex 20:17). Covet (simply defined) means to desire what belongs to another. And it's blatantly obvious that VP indeed coveted other people's manuscripts, to say the very least! (What about all those women!) Okay Mike: I admit now that I was just being sarcastic about conceding your point. In no wise do I agree with you that (in any way, shape or form) God Almighty sanctioned Victor to act just like the devil --- and get away with it! And one day, he (and all others who rationalize the condoning of these sins of his) shall answer to God for himself. And when that happens, any rebuttals (like you post here at GS) will be futile before the righteous judge!

How does plant consciousness and polygraph construction have any relevance to the plagiarism VPW committed?

This may well be the hardest part of the process, admitting to yourself you've wasted a valuable portion of your life. At least, it was for me. I had to take a cold, hard look at my time in The Way and admit to myself I had squandered my time on something of no consequence. It's the first step to moving forward.

Yes T-Bone. With the keys words in this comment being “genuine honest”. Neither of which “The Teacher” was.