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Mike, what are you talking about?? I think there is a lot of "good," here at the GSC. For example, if you go back, and read the threads, many people have revealed the real TWI, not the one in your imagination. Ask Sky, and DWBH. They have written extensively about TWI, under VPW, and LCM. Also, Twinky, and T-Bone, have written about their time in The Corps. Rocky, also has written about his experiences in Way World. I find most of the people who come here, speak the truth about TWI, as honestly as possible. I know I do. I had some good experiences in TWI, and some unpleasant ones. What people here discourage is Bullsheet; people have gently, and sometimes, not so gently, let me know when I am off the mark. I think most of the people who post here, are kind, patient souls, but they can "separate truth from error," in a nanosecond. If you don't want to read negative posts, be more circumspect in what you post.

Interesting topic, mrap. Not new but I'll give you my 'pinion. For the sake of this discussion I'm only including 2nd generation Off shoots, started by those directly taught by Dr. Wierwille. I'm not familiar with 3rd and further out although I'd say that for better or worse they seem to digress so far from his direct influence that it's no longer a viable comparison. There's a lot of that in the earlier generations too though, like John Lynn, who has deviated so far from the basics of PFAL that he's not a reasonable comparison (despite the fact he assures his followers that Dr. Wierwille would be "pleased" by his work, nothing would be further from the truth I'm sure)...so in reality he's a perfect example of the need to be cautious since he's a textbook example of someone directly taught by Dr. Wierwille who's reinvented both history and teaching to equal a new thing. I might say he's either a pathological liar or extremely mentally damaged. Perhaps he's just a well meaning do-gooder. Whatever the case a person would be advised to evaluate him as a person and by his actions when considering if what he says is true or not and even more importantly to know how to accept him as a member of the Church - I for one would give him all the love and forgiveness accorded me by God through Christ, but would never put him in the position of being a Teacher. It would be unfair to his well being and potentially others. But this isn't about him specifically although he comes to mind because he's currently recovering from illness and had had so many ups and downs and a range of experiences in his lifetime. To a great degree you have to consider the character and conduct of an individual when you evaluate their work. Some Christians over emphasize that, others under. I'd contend that behaviors and conduct and the resulting characterization of the individual drawn by their actions is important and should be factored in at this front end when considering whatever it is a person does or says. Mathew 7: 15-20 - Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Deut. 18:22 - When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Matthew infers intent - outwardly they act like sheep but their intentions are those of ferocious wolves. How do I find that out? By their actions. If we are comparing a fruit bearing tree then Jesus is saying that a bad tree won't yield good fruit. Ultimately they'll be cut down and removed. So he wants us to look at the tree, the person, and see what fruit it bears, what are the products of what it does, what it brings forth? Then judge by that - which you can do because the judgment is really already made and you only have to recognized it. Today Christian thinking accepts our lives of growth as manifestations of God's grace and mercy, without which we'd be condemned. So we see each other do good things, bad things, and we are compelled to forgive as we have been forgiven, and deal with grace and forgiveness with others. How much? Jesus said - a lot. 70 X 7. As many times as it takes. Does that then mean that when a person, a brother or sister in Christ teaches in God's name in error or in pride or for self serving reasons, that I am to forgive and accept them? The New Testament covers that too - all can be forgiven but not all are to be given freedom and access within the Church to speak for and on behalf of God. Deuteronomy speaks to that, the prophet who does not speak for God. The NT says to speak directly to each other, confront, include others, don't accept second hand information or rumors, don't promote gossip, require witnesses, multiple witnesses and proofs - why? To waste time? Be nice? No. To be sure you're right and that both they and those affected have the best opportunity to understand what's going on and how to correct it. Paul encouraged Timothy to watch out for Alexander the coppersmith because he did Paul "much harm". Paul also warned about those who would try to sneak in and defraud the church. Why, so they could defraud them? No, so they could collectively avoid being harmed. Paul also instructed Timothy what to look for in church leaders, the elders, deacons, over seers, "servants" of the Lord of God's people....he said look for honest people, men who are spoken well of, who have good reputations, who care for their families, work care for the needs of the church, who have some maturity in the faith. Basically he wants honest, reasonable people who are faithful to the church and who don't lie, cheat, steal or have ongoing problems with things like that. It's impossible to evaluate the teaching without evaluating the teachers. A person may be teaching something completely correct, biblically accurate, but not be living by the biblical teachings themselves. Worse yet, they can be lying about it, creating chaos in the church over it, hurting others without concern if they disagree with them and worse yet stuck, expecting to have their words honored over their actions - which is counter-Christianity. That's anti-Christian, it's the opposite of what Christ did or taught or what anyone who suggests their mature enough to teach "God's Word" on His behalf should be exemplifying. In order to do what the Bible teaches us to do there has to be discussion and communication between people. Will it all be right, good, even useful? Of course not. But if no one tries, no one talks, no one will know. When the news is good, we speak it. When it's not - do we ignore it? Reinvent it, translate it into something that sounds better? The Church isn't someone's personal organization that they run and manage as they see fit - its a newly minted reality where all are brought together in unity through Christ, and God fills us all through Christ. Notice how evil tries to segment and silence the individual, prevents inquiry, refuses to accept criticism, denies responsibility, blames others, prefers a vacuum. That's not the Body of Christ, the "Mystery" in living action, where each individual has God working and willing in them to both have the will and the desire to do as God wishes. Trash talk gets old and endless rounds of gossip damaging and hurtful. But if the Church doesn't make some effort to protect and warn itself and others - Who will?

Hi Grease Spotters - and a great big warm welcome to newcomers! Personally I don’t buy into this “pure evil” model, a popular straw man argument used here and elsewhere by a certain poster. I usually lean heavily on a biblical model - how the Bible delineates the traits and tactics of false teachers, hypocrites, predators, exploitative “leaders”, etc. and especially take note in the passages that address these treacherous folks - you’ll see the Bible doesn’t cut them any slack or water down the criticism by saying look for the good in their life or work...I’m of the opinion the evil they do more or less nullifies anything of merit that’s not to say there was nothing to see that might be considered good - but it does make one wonder if anything - a teaching, a kind gesture, etc. was just for show, the bait in a trap or whatever to serve their hidden agenda; I tend to think they are all truly opportunists at heart if you ask me. Makes me think of the scandal of the Olympic physician Larry Nassar; don’t see a whole lot of folks standing up for him saying “but look at the good that he did...some of those YOUNG GIRLS he molested won Olympic metal.” Excuse me while I barf...sorry, but I can’t even fathom the empathetic disconnect if someone were to think like that.

Good points, Grace - that’s pretty much what I thought too…his post hits me as just another retread of defending wierwille (without actually mentioning his name, of course) – if you check out a list of fallacies I think the post has some of that argument from repetition quality to it with a good mix of faulty generalizations and red herrings for the benefit of newcomers perhaps a note of clarification on certain posts might help “this post is from the campaign to repaint the whited sepulcher”

Skyrider – that link on tree suckers was an interesting tie-in with the way tree – made me take another look at the word horti-CULT-ure …seriously though interesting info – it listed 2 reasons a tree might start growing suckers: because it’s under stress, or because a graft has failed…I must be in a silly and creative mood tonight cuz I was mentally juggling some of these ideas from your post and got to thinking of a literal way tree sucker – someone gullible or easily deceived by The Way International, and who is always under stress because they never receive any nourishing sap from the lying, thieving tree they are grafted to…I also like your line “and teach twig like it was 1974” – I’m inspired to re-write a Prince song: they say P’fal’s a big zero and Party over, but folks at the door So tonight I’m gonna teach twig like it’s 1974 (glad I don't get paid for my songwriting ) == == == == == == == == Spectrum 49 – I figured you’d appreciate an analogy from science...which reminds me, I hope you keep developing the interesting ideas in that paper you’ve shared here…Lot’s of great stuff in there – thanks for sharing it ! I think another deleterious effect of TWI’s gravitational pull was how the fascinating and unique ideas of thoughtful and creative folks were not appreciated and so weren’t allowed to “take off” within TWI's "universe" (could not break free of their gravitational pull)....there's a lesson in there somewhere - - don't let TWI keep you down Like I was explaining to Skyrider, sometimes I’ll play around with ideas – how the idea for this thread was formed - a while back I caught some TV show about supermassive black holes and I think Neil deGrasse Tyson was narrating some of it – fascinating stuff and read up some more on them after the show…one of the many interesting aspects of supermassive black holes is that they are integral to the development of a galaxy - matter of fact, one is at the center of our galaxy - see here and here ...then I started thinking free-form style – imagining the incredible forces these “big boys” exert on their galaxies…the power to influence…then to how ideas influence us and shape our belief system…makes me ask “what’s at the center of my world – the core of my beliefs?”…since I’ve left TWI and reawakened the curious and adventurous part of me I seem to have also developed an urge to reevaluate on a regular basis my belief system especially as it touches science and how I interpret the Bible…uhm…er…I don’t mean to alarm anyone right now - but it seems to be getting darker...as if I’m drifting toward the event horizon of a black hole - - no wait …it’s way passed my bedtime - - musta closed my eyes for a minute…sorry about that…time to go to bed…night all.

When you're young........four years is an eternity. Four years of high school, four years in college, or four years in the military........and you are a different person at the end of that juncture. You enter as a neophyte and graduate with knowledge, potential, confidence, support systems and growing skill sets. And, for those who have strong supportive parents, relatives and siblings.......the family unit generally provides an increasing supply of support and networking to help you navigate this journey of life and fulfillment. Roads of success stretch out before you. If you're young, displaced and/or broke..........six months is an eternity. The reasons for "displaced youth" are vast.........broken homes, abusive fathers, alcohol, sex, drugs, identity, trauma, conflicts, etc. And then, cult leaders are conspiring to target your vulnerability. They build their followings, and livelihoods, on the backs of "good-hearted" followers......preaching and exhorting them to faithfully witness daily to bring others into the fold. You "earn your stripes" by witnessing and shall be rewarded in eternity for it, they preach. The cult leaders, the big-wigs, are above the fray of door-to-door witnessing and have far more important things to attend to......but demand that witnessing is one of the highest forms of obedience. So, cult zealots take to the streets, to college campuses, the local bookstores and nearby parks.......scanning the landscape for isolated individuals. The cult offered a pseudo-family......to those who gave servitude. Every cult and splinter group knows the art of deception. ~~~~~~~~~ A quick review of wierwille and twi sheds light: Wierwille pastored in Paine, OH and Van Wert, OH.......and was contentious against church board Like a caged animal, wierwille was constantly pressing "the edges of his confinement" to find a way out He labeled it "spiritually searching"........others might label it "narcissistic" In 1953, he stole BG Leonard's foundational class and taught it as his own In December 1957, he breaks from church to a class-based ministry Teaching 10-12 classes per year (1958-1966).......most went back to their churches In 1967, wierwille films pfal......and then needed "instructors" to oversee film classes It is apparent that wierwille struggled immensely for ten years to get this work jump-started. All those years of traveling and teaching live classes yielded miniscule results.......and they struggled to pay the bills. Even though wierwille was adept in homiletics, there were few from those nearby towns who desired to venture over to hear wierwille's teachings. Of course, his reputation as a rabble-rousing youngster and womanizer was rumored far and wide which didn't help matters when he moved his operation from Van Wert back to the family farm. The filmed class extended the reach of twi........and, when a few guitar players and firebrands took the stage, twi never was the same. Several times, when I was around Dorothy Owens or escorting her......she talked about how the hippies and younger generation revolutionized twi's thinking and standards in the late '60s. Barefoot and out of control, they started coming to the summer camps. Hell.....they didn't even know proper etiquette or protocol. So, Dorothy, being the retired school teacher and all, was assigned to teach classes on dining room etiquette, proper utensils, dress and protocol. Looking back.......I firmly believe that it was *the youth culture* in twi, and surrounding its events, that was so enticing. In utopian bliss, this cult-ure was to refrain from all negatives......everything was "great." How are you today? "As He is".......or....."In the heavenlies" was the reply. Smiles, and hugs and greeted with kisses.......what's not to like? Not a care in the world (God's got it covered.) A world without responsibility. Rock of Ages camping......where you stayed up half the night talking with others from distant lands. The youth factor begot MORE youth. Girls and guys everywhere......on an eternal "spring break." Who needs Ft. Lauderdale when you've got the rock of ages? It's not necessarily the beach that's the destination.......it's the people and the drunken fun. Sure, the Bible and all was deeply important........but the passions and likeminded youth culture were mesmerizing. Around 1974, wierwille's arrogance could not contain itself as the corps program was growing in leaps and bounds. Visions of grandeur were dancing in his head and he was going to show church elders from New Knoxville to Van Wert, he was exhibiting the great power of God. His narcissism had bloomed. We thought we were free. We thought we were serving the Lord.........until the scales fell from our eyes. In twi, four years of in-residence training was an eternity.......of indoctrination.

The Way International is NOT a supermassive black hole – though they do exert a sneaky "gravitational force" that keeps trying to pull you back in. This thread is all about the deceitful and manipulative ways that TWI uses to get new recruits as well as the underhanded methods they employ to retain them. Anyone that gets within their sphere of influence might get sucked in if they are unaware of what hides behind the treacherous attraction. TWI is almost like a black hole a region of space-time exhibiting such strong gravitational effects that nothing — not even particles and electromagnetic radiation such as light— can escape from inside it. Once you are sucked in to a cult it’s usually harder than hell to get out. And even after you’re out it might take some time to unravel and abandon the complicated mindset and habit patterns…and if you still enjoy reading the Bible like I do - - there’s also those familiar little “pop-ups” that come to mind when reading certain passages – wierwille’s phrases that were practically ingrained in my head through repeatedly listening to the PFAL class. But it all begins nice and easy - there is the love-bombing, talking up the benefits of the class, the excitement of being part of something bigger than myself. Given enough time and circumstances, I think the newness…the romance or honeymoon fades away. A follower slowly awakens to what they really married into – a legalistic, abusive, deceptive, manipulative, and exploitative organization. Now a different set of “mysterious forces” come into play. Lest you become tempted to “turn your back on God” (aka the ministry that taught you “the word”), by this time The Way International has already taken the necessary steps to wring a lifetime commitment out of you. If there’s anything to the theory of graviton particles - which speculates that they mediate gravitational interaction - then perhaps TWI’s “graviton particles” are the subtle implications of certain teachings that lay the groundwork for fear, guilt, and a host of other manipulating mechanisms. They set up followers to be compliance oriented. Recently I was thinking about the love-bombing thread as well as the other manipulative tactics that The Way International used to rope people in. Coincidentally I was listening to (repeatedly…uh oh ) a cover of Muse’s 2006 song “Supermassive Black Hole” done by 2 Cellos and featuring Naya Rivera (known for her breakthrough role on Glee). I love the music – it’s addictive…and goes perfectly with the theme of the song…thundering overpowering instruments that portend some catastrophic event. The song is about a toxic relationship – the person realizes the attraction to someone else is mostly based on a bunch of lies – and the person has a fatalistic attitude about it – like the immense power of supermassive black holes that wield incredible influence over their galaxies – to get sucked in was inevitable…trapped in a toxic relationship - with no foreseeable way to escape. I usually focus on the instrumentation of a tune – but the more I listened to it I kept wondering what did they say in this line or that – so I googled the lyrics and You Tube and after much constellations I felt expired to write this post (take that Norm Crosby fans ). The more I looked over the words to the song the more I saw similarities to being in a manipulative cult. I thought this particular clip would be entertaining and helpful since it has the words across the bottom: I think the sentiment in this song is applicable to anyone who’s been in TWI for a while and has become aware of their tactics of deception and manipulation; as seen in some of the song’s phrases I’ll comment on: “…You caught me under false pretenses…the queen of the superficial...how long before you tell the truth” folks get sucked into TWI by the love-bombing , the sales pitches for supposed benefits of their classes, the fabricated stories of phenomena, exaggerated or embellished stories of success as well as the sweet veneer of Christianity. “how long before you let me go?” – the feeling of being trapped and thinking of TWI as almost like a custodian of my fate. Whatever they say will happen to me are the supposed consequences of my believing - something to be feared ...nice little trick though - it really was a self-imposed mental prison - but I was not aware that I was the only one that could let myself go free...I can't really leave until they say it's ok to do so...which they never will, of course...especially if you were in the way corps - it's a lifetime commitment to Christian service. “Ooh, you set my soul alight” – is an interesting choice of words; it can have a double meaning – perhaps the songwriter meant it as such to convey the twofold tension in the attraction – I dunno – just guessing here …anyway …the word “alight” could mean to set the soul on fire - to be filled with passion or have an immense desire to achieve something – I think of when I first got involved – I was naïve and idealistic ...thought I could change the world with what I knew from PFAL … but “alight” can also mean to settle down or perch – as if the soul was in flight – on a journey – but has now settled down inside this supermassive black hole…I can relate to that too. I believe I’m on a journey through life – and my time in TWI was an unanticipated detour…or maybe it was more like a layover…12 fvcking years sitting at a crummy two bit airport. “Glaciers melting in the dead of night and the superstars sucked into the supermassive” the inevitability of succumbing to overwhelming forces…whether it’s slow and almost imperceptible like glaciers melting…the honeymoon phase of cult involvement – personal boundaries are softened, personal preferences and goals are slowly dissipated - giving way to the greater good – i.e. what does the ministry need me to do?...- If you’ve entered one of their programs (The Way Corps, WOW, Fellow Laborers, etc.) the indoctrination process was a lot quicker - like a superstar being sucked into a supermassive black hole! As my father-in-law (who was in the Seabees) would often say when there was something that needed to be done or maybe he just wanted something done “get with the program”. Part of the indoctrination process of any of their programs also reinforced blind obedience..."going with the flow" is allowing gravity to take over...it's all downhill from there == == == == == == == Toward my later years in TWI, I think one of the strongest “gravitational pulls” that kept me in line was a fear of what would happen to me if I left…”tripped out”. Many of us have heard wierwille’s go-to passage for instilling fear in followers. In John 13 Jesus predicts his betrayal during an evening meal with the disciples, then “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.” (verse 30) wierwille twisted the double meaning of “it was night” - stating unequivocally that the only alternative to the ministry that taught you the rightly divided word was oblivion...so when I thought of my future – I would never picture myself ever leaving the ministry. The possibility of tripping out was not an option as far as I was concerned. Thinking of a scenario like that was almost like entertaining thoughts of suicide. My life, my dreams, my identity, my hopes were all wrapped up in the ministry. I dare say, the opposite of what wierwille said may be closer to the truth. Wierwille/TWI ARE the oblivion - a supermassive black hole - once you are sucked in – you are unaware of reality…oblivious to what matters because you are stuck inside a grand delusion – wierwille’s delusion…a real oblivion – a realm that is void of truth and reality – a parasitic vacuum that sucks all the resources out of anything that gets within its gravitational pull. “Even light cannot escape” ? – well, I wouldn’t go that far in applying this analogy – but I will say this – thinking about wierwille’s scripture twisting to suit his own agenda - very little light or truth was able to escape his lips…and woe unto anyone who accepts his viewpoint…As Jesus once said “If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!” (Matthew 6: 23). In other words, if you think wierwille has enlightened you – then you really are in a heap of supermassive darkness. New York Translation: you’re totally fvcked, dude ! One of the many great things about Grease Spot is that it truly is a light for those wanting to escape the dark netherworld of The Way International. Grease Spot tells the other side of the story…this has been another slice of my story…I was wondering if anyone else has anything to add…feel free to chime in…need a little direction? What was it that first got you thinking there might be a life for you beyond TWI? Besides any strong social bonds with family and friends in TWI – what was it that kept you from leaving when you first began to realize the ministry was not what it seemed? Were you ever afraid that bad things would happen and your life would fall apart if you left? If you’re still involved with TWI I would like to say there is still hope…there’s always hope…perhaps you’ve read things on other threads that resonate with you…have you thought about leaving? What is it that’s holding you back from taking the first few courageous steps to leave?

Hi Greasespotters! The ideological crux behind the entire “Way Tree” revelation hoax is the following grandiose lie: “Each Twig is self-supporting, self-propagating, and self-governing”. The book “The Twelve Traditions” was published by Alcoholics Anonymous in 1946. It sets forth the administrative structure and “procedural protocol” regarding how each AA Chapter is to be governed. Here it is: The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics AnonymousEdit Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority — a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole. Each group has but one primary purpose — to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities. Long FormEdit “Our A.A. experience has taught us that: Each member of Alcoholics Anonymous is but a small part of a great whole. A.A. must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common welfare comes first. But individual welfare follows close afterward. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority — a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount. Each Alcoholics Anonymous group ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose — that of carrying its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Problems of money, property, and authority may easily divert us from our primary spiritual aim. We think, therefore, that any considerable property of genuine use to A.A. should be separately incorporated and managed, thus dividing the material from the spiritual. An A.A. group, as such, should never go into business. Secondary aids to A.A., such as clubs or hospitals which require much property or administration, ought to be incorporated and so set apart that, if necessary, they can be freely discarded by the groups. Hence such facilities ought not to use the A.A. name. Their management should be the sole responsibility of those people who financially support them. For clubs, A.A. managers are usually preferred. But hospitals, as well as other places of recuperation, ought to be well outside A.A. — and medically supervised. While an A.A. group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied. An A.A. group can bind itself to no one. The A.A. groups themselves ought to be fully supported by the voluntary contributions of their own members. We think that each group should soon achieve this ideal; that any public solicitation of funds using the name of Alcoholics Anonymous is highly dangerous, whether by groups, clubs, hospitals, or other outside agencies; that acceptance of large gifts from any source, or of contributions carrying any obligation whatever, is unwise. Then too, we view with much concern those A.A. treasuries which continue, beyond prudent reserves, to accumulate funds for no stated A.A. purpose. Experience has often warned us that nothing can so surely destroy our spiritual heritage as futile disputes over property, money, and authority. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional. We define professionalism as the occupation of counseling alcoholics for fees or hire. But we may employ alcoholics where they are going to perform those services for which we may otherwise have to engage nonalcoholics. Such special services may be well recompensed. But our usual A.A. "12 Step" work is never to be paid for. Each A.A. group needs the least possible organization. Rotating leadership is the best. The small group may elect its secretary, the large group its rotating committee, and the groups of a large metropolitan area their central or intergroup committee, which often employs a full-time secretary. The trustees of the General Service Board are, in effect, our A.A. General Service Committee. They are the custodians of our A.A. Tradition and the receivers of voluntary A.A. contributions by which we maintain our A.A. General Service Office at New York. They are authorized by the groups to handle our over-all public relations and they guarantee the integrity of our principal newspaper, the A.A. Grapevine. All such representatives are to be guided in the spirit of service, for true leaders in A.A. are but trusted and experienced servants of the whole. They derive no real authority from their titles; they do not govern. Universal respect is the key to their usefulness. No A.A. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside controversial issues — particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever. Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think A.A. ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as A.A. members ought not be broadcast, filmed, or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us. And finally, we of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities; that we are actually to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all.” When I was in-Rez with the 4th corpse in the fall of 1973, 3 Of The new “Advanced Studies” classes were videotaped during our first year. They were “The Renewed Mind”, and “Dealing With The Adversary” by Walter Cummins, and “The Way Tree” by John Townsend. During the taping of The WT, dictor had nite owls in the BRC. During one of said Nite owls, I DISTINCTLY remember him telling us that “The Way Tree revelation” was “inspired” by the “A.A. structure”. He never said how he came across those writings. You’ll notice also, that small little phrases like KISS———keep it simple stupid—, are also to be found throughout the halls of AA. Plagiarism was a way of life for DP! LOL! The Way Tree “revelation” was nothing more than a plagiarized business plan for an MLM scheme called PFAL. And, as EVERYTHING else in dictor paul’s minus-tray, it was stolen almost word-for-Word, and concept by concept from another source and that source, (AA), was never given proper credit publicly. To say that there was ANY part or piece of TWIt that was in any way “original”, is as ludicrous as saying “the Earth is flat”. And, just as accurate!.............peace.

Mike, Donkey Dung!

Ahhhh. The Pure Evil Model. Yes, indeed. The straw man to rival all other straw men. You see, Mike, it's not the purpose of this site to create a "pure evil model" of Wierwille. The purpose of this site is to expose what was and is the reality of the inner workings of The Way ministry. That reality is not always pretty. So, continue on to argue on VPW's behalf if you must, but be aware that this site is about much more than you or me or V.P. Wierwille.

Some of you know I have a connection with the International Cultic Studies Association. They just sent this notice that I thought I'd share with you. Research Survey on Experiences of Born/Raised Please Consider Participating If you identify as someone who was born or grew up in a high demand religious organization, a high intensity faith group, or a cult, and had counseling while either in or after you were in that group, we would like to invite you to participate in a short 20-25 minute survey. If you are interested, please go here: https://unt.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0wuUIwXSPshTnE1 The research is conducted by Dr. Cyndi Matthews of the University of Louisiana at Monroe, Ashley Allen, ICSA Outreach Coordinator, and Elisha Cox, a social work intern working with Ms. Allen. The research study was approved by the University of Louisiana at Monroe’s institutional review board. If you have any questions, please contact Dr. Matthews: cyndersm@verizon.net. Please feel free to share with anyone you think would be interested in participating.

So, what's all this called for positivity do for the people who Saint Vic plagerized? What's this call for positivity do for the women Saint Vic forced himself on? Where in the bible does it say "Positivity will set you free"? I can, however, point out in the bible where it says The truth will set you free (John 8:32). So, explain to me the good that can come from stealing others works and someone forcing themself on women. You want to talk about a Pure Evil model. Have you read any of your posts recently? All the negitivity launched at other posters. According to you they're constantly trying to trick you, or trip you up, or attacking you. What's your model for people in this forum? Maybe you should try a few cc's of positivity toward other posters before you start criticizing.

49, I for one, am glad you found your "way," here!! I love your posts; they make me laugh, and think!!

The internet is the enemy of twi and those like twi. Grateful for GSC. That’s for sure.

I don't think it was only the "displaced" youth that were attracted to it, or a part of fueling its growth. Granted, it was, in many respects, what the older generations of conservatism (and status quo) here in this country might deem to be rebellious... against capitalism, materialism, and the war. (that may not be all inclusive, but you get the drift.) Times, they were a cha___n__gin'. The future was terribly uncertain, and part of that meant... looking for a better way. We lacked answers. The denominational churches at the time were (by and large) dying. Cults were on the rise. How many of us were searching? Well, easier to ask... which of us weren't? So many things and events (Woodstock, for example) were anomalies. And (for the record), VPW himself said that he was a product of the times. Whatever that meant (or allowed), y'all can figure out or debate. Consider how many were searching for answers... which for some undoubtedly meant, hungering for truth... and ask yourself, Would God allow an entire generation (the baby boomers) die of starvation? Well, people typically don't die of starvation; they die of malnutrition.

Thanks DWBH.... Yes, TWIt and its offshoots hate this site. None of them have a site where open thought, discussion and questions are in public view. And lately, here at GSC......there has been many new posters coming to this site. Some are second generation kids who were raised in twi and are now grappling with the aftermath of this evolving cult that has consumed their wayfaring parents and relatives. Adding to this complexity are the dozens upon dozens of offshoots with their books and classes claiming that THEY hold the spiritual mantle of truth. Stop the merry-go-round.........and let's take a walk. In the late 60's, several factors emerged that contributed to the rise of cult leaders and those attracted to cults (lifestyle and doctrine). The socio-dynamic of church involvement was changing rapidly. The counterculture of the 60s was a diaspora into the '70s. Technology was advancing......pfal filmed on 16mm, then VHS-format Displaced youth.......searching for meaning, acceptance, belonging Note: One generation of displaced youth propelled twi forward to the cult that it is today. Wierwille cut ties with his Van Wert Church in 1957.......to follow in the steps of many elders, and contemporaries, who traveled across the country teaching at retreats and church-related seminars. Some of the men on this list and the year that wierwille encountered them: E. Stanley Jones (1944), Rufus Moseley (1946), Perry Hayden (1946), Glenn Clark (1948), J.E. Stiles (1951), Starr Daily (1952), and B.G. Leonard (1953). For thirteen (13) years, wierwille was taking notes and gleaning from their ministries......all while he was on Van Wert Church payroll. And, it seems apparent........that Leonard's foundational class in 1953 is what spurred the impetus of wierwille to, finally, break from the denominational structure. From 1958-1967, wierwille taught live pfal classes and Mal George helped teach a handful of them. Going into their tenth year........and the results were miniscule. Nearly 80% of students from all those classes never committed to The Way, Inc. The strategy of reaching church-people "with the word" was a bust......wierwille's independent undertaking was barely paying the bills. And, the BRC was a non-descript rural building with no church bells or steeple........and very few people. So, wierwille threw caution to the wind in 1967.......and stared into intense, glaring lights to teach and film a 36-hour class. Strapped for cash, time and "borrowed" furniture, wierwille was under immense pressure to get this class filmed in an allotted time frame. Crazy as all this was......the confluence of technology, the counterculture hippie movement, and displaced youth provided a wave of interest, excitement and involvement to wierwille's rogue underpinnings. Youth leaders and guitar singers bridged the gap between homiletics and hippies........and the displaced youth soon found a place in an Ohio commune. Note: One generation of youth leaders and guitar singers bridged the gap between homiletics, hippies and holy spirit. Wierwille NEEDED the youth far more than they needed him or his teachings. He exploited their involvement and their vulnerabilities. Many young leaders came and left.......but their zealous involvement and connections brought waves upon waves of other displaced youth longing for belonging. And, even though the zero corps was shut down....... those corps from 1-5 went forward with ten years of solid commitment......AND THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING. In their zeal, WOWs beget more WOWs......and corps beget more corps. The *youth factor* was the driving force of the movement.......not wierwille. And, those early years (1968-1974) at headquarters would infiltrate the minds of scores upon scores of corps grads to follow. The displaced youth had found their "family".......and a place to call home. As headquarters grew into a full-fledged compound......it became self-contained. You didn't need to go anywhere, for anything.......except beer and wine. Heck, even George Jess wine was known to be available to a select few. Hardly needed to leave grounds...... Three square meals a day...... Snack shop......and grilled burgers after meetings In-house entertainment.........indoor/outdoor, bands, dancing, fun Personal services.........haircuts, laundry, taxes, dentist at Indiana Campus Car services.......help with repairs / barter services Who needed much money?........many lived on-grounds and walked to work Note: One generation stayed so long......that they started having babies. Corps were graduating year after year and getting married. By 1976, a second generation of "cult-babies" are being pushed around in strollers. No, it wasn't many at first.......but six years later, by 1982.......babies and strollers were everywhere at corps week and roa. And, why not......the youth had "found a home." The displaced youth had moved from transition and were transferring these perceptions and identities to this pseudo-family. Wierwille addressed aspects of "this place is your home" on many a night owl. I knew many who considered Mrs. Wierwille as the mother that they never had, or knew. Others, whose father or mother died prematurely, took refuge in this "Uncle Harry Nostalgia" and was furthered when the Corps Chalet was being built.......that corps could stay for a couple days whenever they were passing by. Not only the commune lifestyle, but the doctrine.........I remember several times when wierwille taught about ownership versus stewardship. Why do you need to OWN things?.....wierwille claimed. It only slows you down, burdens you with the world. It's far better to have access of the ministry's stuff, than to own something yourself. Here you get to enjoy the way woods, the house of his healing presence, and all......without the expense and maintenance of it. All those years of evolving rhetoric......1) Burn the Ballast, 2) Burn the Chaff, to 3) Uncle Harry Day. Get rid of anything that is holding you back.......record albums, yearbooks, instruments, trinkets/jewelry, worldly books, family heirlooms and keepsakes, etc. Each year, around March 17th..... the communal fire at headquarters would roar as we rationalized the process and felt heavy guilt to obey. The manufactured doctrine and lifestyle was set ablaze......until 1985, when the death of the man and his fire ceased. What started out as a search for meaning, acceptance and belonging..........yielded years of detours, dead-ends and blind alleys. So, yeah........there's a lot to unpack from these cult travels. .

Interesting slant from science, T-Bone! As for me, I eventually wised up and left TWI. I can say in all truth that I was in their "inescapable" gravitational pull for quite some time. I remember LCM remarking: "If you ever forsake this ministry, God won't even spit in your direction." (The way I see it, I never really liked the idea of God spitting on me anyway.) And another of his quotes: "If you leave The Way, you'll be a grease spot by midnight!" Well, guess what? I did leave them --- and HERE I AM...a Greasespot! And the coffee here is delicious!

Terrific posts Skyrider and T-bone! Thank you both for such self-reflective insight into the myriad, varied, yet quite profound, psycho-emotional factors which caused so many of the idealistic youth of the 60s to be prime “cult bait”. I was among them as were you, and all of those who spent any amount of time getting gobbled up by all the various “spiritual growth” programs offered by the cult. The doctrine they manufactured was certainly “self-supporting, self-propagating, and self-governing”, especially adept at manufacturing “spiritual needs” which only their manufactured doctrine could meet. Then, add in the guilt motivation of “Gawd has no hands but our hands blah blah blah yada yada yada in the name of Jesus Christ amen, with a little “what has this ministry cost YOU? How much have YOU given to God? Christ was willing to die! Are YOU??”, and, of course, a lot of fear of “not measuring up” to whatever shifting “spiritual priorities” were manufactured to maintain the ever-changing standards of “the prorgram(ming)”, moving the goal posts of that “spiritual maturity” which gawd required of his “douloi”, further and further away, requiring more and more $$ and “training” for never-ending programs living only on a “needs basis”. Not a cult, eh?? LOL! The “Art” of sociopathic, malignant, narcissistic behavior disorders ALWAYS includes “charming” and “engagingly manipulative” personality traits in those so afflicted. Such behavior is not only diagnostic, but also predictive of future pathological behavior as the patient progressively decompensates while the disease progresses, and goes untreated. This hindsight is 20/20 though. It is the result of my post-cult Nursing education and 25 years of practice. Remember the old adage, “ if only I knew now what I knew then, I woulda, shoulda, coulda.....”? I have learned through life experience that such thinking is self-defeating. It deals with “what IF” instead of “what IS”. That sabotages any productive self-reflection while rationalizing continued behavioral inaction as a “frustrating waste of time”. That inaction and rationalization freezes your identity at whatever stage you are willing to accept in order to relieve the frustration. Usually, that locks folks into the identity formation stage of human development. Normally, that stage occurs during the ages of 21-32. How old were YOU at the height of your TWIt involvement? In the Corpse? Way Home? WOW VET?Bet it was somewhere between age 18-32, unless you had a kid or 2. There are as many psychoemotional factors contributing to our being “cult bait” as there are individuals who unwittingly became cultists. IMO, posts such as Skyrider and T-bone have posted here, are the greatest weapons we here at the GSC have in our arsenal of FACTS and eyewitness accounts from honest, altruistic, and concerned ex-wayfers, of the other side of the TWIt stohree. TWIt and it’s offshoots hate this site because it exposes the purulent underbellies of each and all of their cults. The Truth only hurts those who stand against it! Selah...........peace.

Skyrider, you’ve got that right ! Dads are a big deal in a child’s development…I think of my relationship with my Dad before TWI…my Dad was a medic in WWII and received 2 Purple Hearts…he suffered from PTSD ever since and I believe that contributed in part to the dysfunctionality in our family…He was not abusive, not an alcoholic, never fooled around on Mom, always provided for us, took us on vacations, taught me how to use tools, and turned me on to sci-fi movies after which we would philosophize about stuff. But Dad was always somewhat distant emotionally, often had nightmares – I could hear him down the hall from my bedroom – Mom would explain later “about the war”…which brings up other times when he would be watching a war movie on TV and Mom would get on him about “watching that stuff when you know it gives you nightmares”. But as I grew older and became influenced by the counterculture of the 60s – the emotional distance between Dad and me increased. I hope all this isn’t too far off topic – but I believe all that was part of what set me up to be attracted to wierwille and his cult; this was my vulnerability…I am very ashamed to confess this – but there were a few times when I remember wishing he could have been my father. I was taken by his charisma and warmth and how he seemed to really connect with people…ugh - gag ! now it just makes me wanna barf - that I would trade my wonderful, loyal, hardworking and loving Dad for some lying, thieving weasel. Well, I think I became a truly repentant prodigal son after dumping that fvcking fake “father-in-the-word” wierwille when I left TWI and for my “penance” worked on reconnecting with my Dad until he passed away – and you can tell Sister Dolorosa that has been one of the most enjoyable acts of repentance in the history of New York Catholic Boys. …again – hope the details of vulnerability relates to your thread.

Yeah..........it is nauseatingly gut wrenching to look back at that cult exploitation with eyes wide open. Thankfully, I didn't stay in that cult for 40 years, or more............like many in that R&R group. Then, there are those like that new poster who stated that he was in twi for 14 years and a Geer group for 18 years!! These splinter groups take a slice of cultism, home-brew it........and just as manipulative. Dealing with tree suckers.......... "Sometimes a tree starts looking more like a shrub, with a bushy clump of young stems sprouting from the base or from a spot on the trunk. Those stems are called suckers, because they zap water and nutrients from the main tree. As suckers are unhealthy for trees and they are unsightly, it’s important to know how to eliminate them and when possible, how to prevent them in the first place." Same with way tree suckers........ Eliminate them........from your life Prevent them in the first place.....do not attend How many more "tree suckers" are going to sprout up from the R&R group? Five? Seven? Ten? It is ALL so sickening........ my wife is in contact with a corps grad who left twi some 20 years ago and she still gravitates to a splinter twig that meets twice a month. There are corps grads out there who STILL cleave to pseudo-pfal jargon and "teach twig" like it was 1974. Ugh.

Courageous post Less Than. Welcome to GreaseSpot. Breathe!

Welcome, Less Than. Praise the Lord you are less than TWI would turn you into, and More Than anything they could offer. Making you feel "less than" and not good enough is standard TWI technique, and it leaves big scars and holes in one's self-respect. You will find others here who were kids raised in TWI - I think you as a group have your own particular issues to exorcise. Actually, what Rocky posted just yesterday, a TED talk, could be really helpful for you. The speaker is a young woman who was raised in an abusive cult. Meantime, this is a great place for you to vent your anger, frustrations, and hang-ups. We've all been there. It's also very much okay for you to seek help from a therapist. If you had a broken leg, you'd seek help from a doctor, wouldn't you? Right. So seek help for your broken thinking. Say how you felt unsupported when your father died. Let it meander on from there. Maybe your therapist will be able to offer some strategies to help you "deal with" the anticipated conflict with your mum.