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Don't forget - Corps are there for a "lifetime of service." Only what was meant was, a lifetime of servitude. Why else do you suppose TWI pushed so much the doulos (bondservant) aspect? Jesus called his disciples "friends," not servants. We aren't required to be servants any more. Remember this? Eph 2:6 "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him [Christ] in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" and the teaching that when the work is done, then the person is seated (why Christ is seated at the right hand of God - because his work of redemption is complete. There are no slaves or servants in the heavenly places - their work is completed too. Why? Because of God's desire to show his graciousness to us. Read the beginning of Eph 4 again. Look at love, grace, mercy, kindness. Pretty good retirement scheme, huh? Even though Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God, however, he still works through his body, the church, to which he has committed the ministry of reconciliation. One has to suppose that Jesus must be working by choice if his work on earth is done. And we too can choose daily if we want to fulfill the ministry that has been assigned to us. With God, it's always "Choose ye this day ..." not "this day you are compelled ..."

Bol’s post looks very on topic to me. Flat earther’s are the core of the anti-science nuts who think NASA faked this stuff. TWI had a lot of these disgusting theories. No doubt next we will hear about Masons. What comes after that? The holocaust didn’t happen? Maybe John Birch next month? What a bunch of horse manure

Yeah Rocky! Semantics can sometimes get in the way of a great "meeting of the minds". Don't know why I thought of this, but here goes: Do you remember Pres Clinton being "drilled" about having sex with Monica Lewinsky? And his answer was something like: "Well, that depends upon how you define sex!"

Finally, there’s a cure for intelligence!

We had a discussion a while ago, about how ex-TWI people seem to be inordinately attracted to unusual theories. I can't seem to find it at the moment.

So how does one deal with one's own Private Idaho? I literally had a really cool conversation with a friend of mine yesterday on this topic, yet indirectly. She was telling me that how she knows what to focus on when deciding what to work on regarding herself and self improvement is by monitoring what she accuses others of. She said she is aware of the truth that when you point a finger at others 4 are pointing back at you, so she actually uses that as a form of self-regulation. I thought to myself. Smack the forehead. GENIUS. I'm going to try that too starting this week. Now while this topic has some really nice personal relevance for me above - this is really what I like to gain out of conversations here, I also was pointing out the fact that the Way operates as its own Private Idaho, while masquerading as a worldwide ministry.

After the lawyers got involved in those lawsuits regarding sexual predation, which prompted martindale's ouster........I was under the impression that rivenbark had to dial back lots of the manipulation and exploitation of its followers. From those of you still in at the time......wasn't twi reprimanded to stop the "salary-based-on-needs-basis" doctrine because it was ILLEGAL? And further, that twi needed to pay overtime for those who worked more than 46 hours per week? Plus, twi could NOT regulate someone on staff who wanted to have a second job to supplement their income.....and that's why John Linder is a real estate agent when he's not brandishing his 9mm Glock handgun as head bodyguard at the way international. So, my question................Why can't corps retire from twi with dignity? Sure, it's a sleazy, indoctrinating cult and all........but what's the point in kicking people "in the groin" when they simply want a little respect and dignity? Are the board of directors so jaded and sadistic that they can't extend some respect to those who'd worked to promote their product for some 40 years? ........for those who used their OWN money to move from state to state, and job to job, to help run hundreds and hundreds (thousands?) of meetings, and classes? Of course, many of us remember wierwille boasted that "......we don't retire in The Way" as he heaped praise on Dorothy and Rhoda, but they were FULL-TIME staff and had trailer units on grounds. Did they ever move year after year, and slave to pay the bills.....and eat cereal for supper before rushing off to teach the next twig fellowship? NO......they did not. It is absolutely mind-blowing to see the hardness of heart from Rosalie, Jean-Yves, JohnR, and BillyG. !!! When I go back and re-read that Revival and Restoration thread.....that August 2016 letter and follow-up letter from Melody Ann Carter, they were requesting "respect and dignity" for all their years of service. They wanted emeritus status for decades of fighting for twi in the trenches of life. Sure, they were peeved that old Rosalie wouldn't address their concerns or moderate her stance on several doctrine issues......namely, that debt-doctrine. But more than that.........they DID NOT want to jump thru any more hoops. Why couldn't they retire with dignity........and sit a spell? Bottom Line..............moynihans, horneys, forts, others wanted some R-E-S-P-E-C-T. (Sing it Aretha Franklin........) What is so glaringly repugnant is that..................Rosalie NEVER served on-the-field after she graduated from Family Corps. Hypocrisy much? Jean-Yves NEVER served on-the-field after he graduated from the 16th Corps. Hypocrisy much?

LOL! Why would anyone in their right mind want to volunteer with that cult anyway? Otherwise, your restatement of the question seems quite reasonable. Of course, "emeritus" status doesn't automatically or contractually confer on anyone anything other than what they get when their hair turns gray. But I suspect Skyrider linked the expression with retiring with dignity for a reason. I would think that the exodus of this particular group in 2017, after many of them had spent a 40 year career with the cult, might have been motivated somewhat by a desire for finding a funding stream for retirement pay. Then again, that's only speculation on my part.

Amino, hello!! If it is possible for you to do this, would you tell us about CG's health? I know a few years ago, he was seriously ill. Again, if it is something you would rather not discuss, that is fine. I hope you fine answers to any questions, you might have here at the GSC.

One might suppose that Ros-a-Lie sets the example by not retiring. She's making a better fist (as in tight fisted) than VPW, who basically got sidelined. She's made d@mn sure she's not going to get sidelined like that. Therefore, everyone has to follow her example. I attend two churches. In both, recently, the vicar or rector (minister) has just retired, Paul about 10 months ago and Edward in November. Their retirement was planned for, and welcomed (with regret) by their congregations, who acknowledged that these ministers had "paid their dues," (with regret by the congregation because they were popular ministers, lovely men). I recall some years ago, the PCC was pushing for a raise in the stipend for a previous vicar (another Paul), because he needed to plan for his retirement. All of these men have gone on to continue serving other congregations, taking a different role from leadership/ministering, but still vitally involved in congregations in their new areas. Nobody makes them; they do so because they love to serve. But it gives them the opportunity to serve in a different capacity, according to their abilities now and in the foreseeable future. If TWI left people alone and stopped interfering, they'd probably find that many would have stuck around anyway to continue to serve, in whatever capacity. But legalism, compulsion, kills the joy of giving and of serving. But hey - can't teach an old cult new tricks.

An adaptation of “Respect” modified for the board of directors R-E-S-P-E-C-T Find out what it means to me R-E-S-P-E-C-T Take out those B-O-Ds (S-O-Bs would work too) ...on second thought "Take out those B-O-Ds" sounds like a mobster hit...since I'm opposed to violence let's make that "Kick out those B-O-Ds"

Why can't corps retire from twi with dignity.......and emeritus status? Well........imo, the BOD are so far from agapeo love that they are beset with paranoia. To them.......they cannot allow the moynihans, and others, to retire WITH STATUS and ACCESS to twi-followers. The pyramid structure just doesn't allow much room at the top......let alone, opening the door for scores of corps grads to retire with emeritus status. Thus..........The Purge. In controlling power, one has to keep the plebs in submission. Think Scientology. Think North Korea. Purging select individuals sends a powerful message.......if you don't tow the line, you too will be purged. For those who've been indoctrinated that *rewards are attained by staying faithful to and in the household*....ie. the way international....it is a clear and present danger to not cross THAT line. The invisible fence.......*rewards are attained by staying faithful to and in the household*........keeps the dogs in their backyard.

http://listverse.com/2017/08/16/10-reasons-the-story-of-jesus-might-be-an-allegory-for-the-sun/

That's been the focus of one line of reasoning to debunk bull$hit like what Mr. Goldstar is trying to hoist onto what he hopes are gullible GSC readers. While I generally abhor declarations of what people are thinking (including "hoping") and prefer sticking to addressing what they write in posts, weeks ago I caught some contradictions on Mr. GS's posts. He tried to explain them away, IIRC. However, I just caught another one. He started this thread to bait people into debating details of what he claims is a non-existent space program operated by the US government. But he also posted about Elon Musk's launch of a Tesla automobile, mocking the miscalculated trajectory BUT NOT claiming the event never happened. We've had people act like that before here at GSC... The bottom line is that it's getting more and more difficult to take Goldstar seriously. Where's that scripture that addresses vain babblings? Please don't take his bait.

Welcome Annio! I am thrilled each time a human light switch is turned on and the door to genuine liberty is opened wide! Enjoy the brew! I prefer the Double Truth Espresso myself.

And on the topic of whether or not there has been manned (and womanned) space flight, moon landings, Mars rover landings, exploration of distant planets and other wondrous things, I disagree with your entire concept that NASA has been staging huge deceptions. Further, I find your claims in that regard so absurd that I have no intention of addressing the minutia. Your inference, "too much good, hard evidence... etc." Only reflects how you see the situation and bears no relation to how I view any of it.

May I offer you this insight. You can only control you. If you have something you believe you don't want to read, your only socially responsible recourse is to ignore it. This is but I offer it to you in a spirit of cooperation, in hopes that you might find it helpful.

When I first found the Cafe, annio, I spent so much time reading ... I didn't have internet at home, so stayed after work reading and reading. I was shocked, appalled, and ultimately freed from a lot of misery. Would leave very late - got locked in twice (was discovered at 10pm, where did the previous five hours go!?) - happily, one time the cleaners disturbed me, and the second time, the IT guy was fixing some things. Otherwise, I guess I'd have been very early for work the next day...! Carry on reading!

Consider for a moment the incredibly massive number of individuals that would need to be sworn to secrecy to pull off a conspiracy of this magnitude.

I also forgot to mention that my stepson earned his bachelor's degree in optical science and master's degree in systems engineering and spent a couple of years working for a space contractor in DC, after getting his start as an engineer at a defense contractor in Tucson. In other words, he's a rocket scientist. I just think the whole subject of NASA staging the moon landing in a TV studio is an incredible con. If a person dares to consider the exploration drive that's embedded in human DNA, it's not difficult to scoff at those conspiracy theories. Nevertheless, one still must develop a critical basis for understanding how and why genuine space exploration is unavoidable.

Yes, I saw it. At best, I would agree with HapE4Me. I don't see it as credible evidence of any such thing. I do see that we are ALL gullible and subject to being deceived (and conned), especially those of us who bought into Wierwille's fundamentalist bull$hit. But I try to be more skeptical since I left wayworld more than 30 years ago.

The Way of Hillsong...Founders Raking in Millions od Dollars.... Remind you of anyone...? Different organization.....same game....they misunderstood when Jesus said "Feed my sheep", they thought he said "Fleece my sheep"....

I'm glad you commented on the sunglasses, chock, because I was too busy watching Cindy rock that brunette 'do to give much thought to the dusty old creeps in the cornfield. The higher the hair, the closer to God.

Well, for one, Hollywood isn't quite as closed of a society/subculture even though it may be reasonable to cite some strong common bonds between many people who would be considered part of Hollywood. In twi, I never saw or heard anyone voicing strong feelings about political views contrary to group norms. In Hollywood, while it may be commonly understood that most of "them" are politically liberal, you still have the James Woods and Jon Voights and (before he passed) Charleton Heston. Who speak/spoke out boldly and emphatically with starkly contrasting views and values. There's no question that the Branch Davidians were a cult. The Turpins (the 13 kids severely abused) are an extreme example of a closed social group and how tragic it can be. Also in contrast, the ISS (International Space Station) of course had/has the potential but it's not a closed social group. By virtue of the nature of "international" it has to have openness and communications norms (unwritten rules) and written rules to safeguard both the scientific work and the cooperation between nations. Back in the 1980s, when I was going to college, I learned in communications classes about group dynamics, specifically that groups small and large go through stages: Forming, storming, norming, performing. Groups start for a reason. There develops or exists common interests and goals. But before the group can accomplish its intended purpose, there will be conflict. Among those who stay in the group, they figure out what rules (written or not) that they can live with. Not everyone who's there at the beginning, stays through this stage, but for those who do, they then can accomplish their common objectives and goals. Unintended consequence comes in when there's no leadership that can wisely guide the group through those stages. Leadership in this context is an intangible concept, not necessarily always provided in the same way in all groups. Of course there's more to it, but that's the gist.

Hey annio - nice to see you. I'm recovering too from years I've stopped enumerating. We do like to deconstruct Pharisee Central around here. "The best antidote to LIARS when it comes to the Way is Greasespot Cafe"

Welcome to Grease Spot, Annio !!! I swear my eyes are getting worse…I had to put on my reading glasses cuz I thought your name was Amino - - as in amino acids which are important in nutrition – i.e. the process of obtaining food for health and growth…that’s cool… Then I put my glasses on and saw your name is Annio…so I look that up and find Annio da Viterbo, an Italian Dominican Friar, scholar and historian…now I know you can’t be him cuz he be daid since 1502…unless you’re here to tell us the dead ARE alive now… So where do we go from here? Maybe combining the two is the key…so I look forward to your input on Grease Spot, from your personal history of TWI, G33r and beyond…lots of food for thought…and healing and growth for all… I usually offer a cup of cappuccino but thought I'd change it up a little…how about amaretto spiked coffee with some ice cream in honor of Italian Dominican Friars

Hey there, annio. Did you know you name means "no" in Korean? (아 니 요) That's some poetic justice. "Just say NO to TWI"

Yeah, T-Bone..........so thankful that GSC is here. It really is amazing to go back thru those threads like say.......pages 88-179. Hundreds upon hundreds of posters have benefitted from this information.......and presumably, living life well now.

Deconstructing Fundamentalism Independence Day Six years ago today, I lifted my three sleepy children into their car seats, hastily threw our belongings into trash bags, and shut the door on my abuser forever. I had 1,041 miles to drive. I weighed 105 pounds. I had no job and no home. I was scared to death. But I knew the exhilaration of freedom the minute I pointed my wheels south and stepped on that gas pedal. I was done sleeping with my keys and wallet hidden under my pillow. I was done trying to protect little eyes and ears from witnessing his anger. I was done with years of systematic abuse hollowing me into a shell of a person. The times that I tried to leave, and the things that he had done to me to stop me from leaving. For years afterword, my hands involuntarily shook when I said it out loud. Me too. Me f**king too. (more)