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So back to Billy Graham, I agree with you Twinky. I remember growing up in a church - family attended a denomination for a period of time not always. Billy at that time would always be advertised as filling the stadiums and as an evangelist winning and converting people. That was common at the time. I didn't personally attend one of his stadium meetings, but others that were similar, like one I remember with Oral Roberts or a son or something. Billy's huge meetings were always about converting people - winning them to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Billy wasn't evangelizing any doctrinal platform, trinity, resurrection perspectives, nothing. He was from my personal remembrances focused on salvation and getting people to accept Jesus. That was the beginning and end of his message, and usually he was just there for one day anyway. He would tell people to get in touch with a local church. One of the criticisms of Billy is that he would leave "bastard children" around. Not in a literal or sexual deviant fashion. But in that people would be converted, and then alone with no support system. I haven't had any personal interaction with him or his son or whatever ministry he is running. What I read seems to indicate they have swayed to pandering to power, which is believable knowing Billy's history. But his roots and foundation were definitely only about winning people to Jesus Christ early on. As an evangelist figure, I mean compared to some I've met who had that title in the Way, I certainly think that godly fruit bears out. In the Way I met people with that title that acted egotistical and sent everyone else out witnessing while they sat around.

What experience with churches today exactly do you have? Aren't you one of the ones that isolated and studied PFAL collaterals for a decade plus not attending churches? In my experience the trinity is not really discussed, taught, or really dwelt on at all in churches today. Thus difficult to make it the biggest problem with churches today. Looking back from my experience, it looks more like VPW was looking for a bone to pick with mainstream Christianity because nobody was paying attention to his plagiarized material cobbled together class, or at best taking it and going back to their churches. VP had to do something to poison the well so they only could get water from him. Teachings on the trinity culminating in calling all the major heads of denominations "seed boys" or his personal slang for people sold out to the devil and living for the devil did the trick. Do the young hippies want to go back to church? No, not with seed men running the denominations.

Just curious rrobs. Why is that a concern? Keeping score?

Bol, bingo!!!! I don't believe in the Trinity, but I don't dwell on it all day. If others want to believe it, that is their business. I am much more concerned about important things, like if people have jobs, food, and homes to abide in.

We're not really trying to prove or disprove existence of anything in this thread. If many people over generations talk about it, that's good enough. It exists. Do the various views of trinity/non-trinity affect your views of the world and therefore your thoughts and behavior?