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Mike, please re-read the first two posts when I opened this thread. You indicated that you had been re-reading heart-rending stories on old threads and your understanding was growing. So this thread is for you to share how your understanding is growing. Do be aware that most people haven't written "their story" in one place, but there may be many posts by a person on many threads over a long period that will give "their story". If you read all the posts by one poster, you'd get a little of "their story" but it'd take you a long time. (Rocky, whose post is immediately above this, has, I see, nearly 11,000 posts, some of which may embody his story, and other posts will be something flippant.) People are not bitter, but some have suffered irremediable harm at the hands of "leadership" in TWI. There may have been much forgiveness of TWI, but that does not rectify the loss of a body part or the loss of a child or the damage to a marriage, which marriage might or might not survive. It does not rectify lost job opportunities, career development, financial hardship now caused by surrendering so much to (being coerced by) TWI. It does not rectify the missed opportunity to see a loved one before death, or repair damaged family/friend relationships. I fear for some of the children brought up in TWI who had been raised in a bullying and otherwise abusive atmosphere - raised with fear and not with love. Most here will acknowledge some initial benefits, or deliverance, as you yourself do, delivered from the bondage of the RC church. Others talk of deliverance from addictions of various kinds. (One of my Corps sisters had been delivered from a life of drug addiction that led to prostitution, simply so that she could get her next fix. She had an amazing story to tell - and she gave the glory to God. Yes, she was helped by TWI, only God knows how.) However, too often the deliverance is a deliverance into deeper bondage and servitude; it's just less obvious. So, if you are reading, and you now begin to understand this damage that has been caused, and to develop empathy for the victims, sufferers, abusees, call 'em what you will, it would be a pleasure to share your journey in understanding. If it helps you, here's a brief snapshot. When I was cast out I fell into deepest despair. I was alienated from all my friends and family. All. Everyone. I had given up everything and everyone to follow this wonderful Godly ministry. I was on my way to crawl back over broken glass to get back to TWI after ten years of abject misery and (self-imposed) condemnation away from TWI. I was bright, confident and outgoing before I met a bunch of WoWs; now I was afraid of my own shadow and of every action, no matter how kind, that was shown towards me. I happened across GSC whilst looking for the zip code for TWI. I was totally appalled at the disrespect for this wonderful ministry. I could not believe what I was reading. This godly ministry would never allow these things to happen! They would stand up against sexual abuse, defend marriages, model Godly behavior. Yet, the stories I read chimed with things I'd seen. The severe abuse that happened to me, I learned, wasn't personal as such, just part of the working pattern of TWI. What happened to me had happened to countless others, especially women, and very especially to smart women. I read much that shocked me to my core. And after that, the scales from my eyes and my heart, and God has worked hard to help and heal me. Loving gentle people in churches have helped me. Strangers in the street have been kind to me. Some friends and family relationships are restored, another significant one even more damaged. God has restored very much to me, so much I could weep at his great graciousness. And yet, my career has never recovered, and my longed-for children will never be born; I am now way past childbearing age. Learn to see these stories, Mike, and you will genuinely be able to help people. I believe you have a heart to help and to show God's love to people. You can do that, but you MUST abandon your PFAL mindset because that doesn't deliver into freedom but into bondage. PFAL and TWI cannot be separated. If you argue otherwise, you haven't learned much from the "heart-rending stories." So, what have you learned so far?

That was easy, though. The "little three" were faked. Anyone can do it. [Everyone did, coff coff]

No, you were saying: And I in return presented Saint Vic's proclamation and what he did afterward. And, if you want to try and take that out, what makes Saint Vic different than your examples?

You mean like proclaiming you have the only true word of God than stealing others ideas and raping women?