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Wierwille was The Teacher................because he said he was. TWI is the true household of God......because they say it is. Elena Whiteside wrote The Way: Living in Love.......because she said they were. Mrs. Wierwille wrote Born Again to Serve............... because she said he was. What we have here is.....Self-Referential Greatness. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EVERYTHING we ever learned from wierwille or twi was self-referential? EVERYTHING........was spoon-fed to us via in-house messaging... EVERYTHING........was tweaked and skewed to place wierwille as "the teacher" EVERYTHING........fake doctorate, plagiarized books, stolen class, no research skills Circular logic: The Way Ministry is great, because they say it's great. No matter how many people exit..........twi still "has the word that no one else has." No matter how many people exit..........twi is still "the faithful remnant," because they say it is. No matter how many people expose their fraud..........they still label the dissenters "possessed." Self-Referential Greatness: Never admit faults, failures, fissures or fraud.

So did he do the Lo shantra bit? So, if I accept they were real manifestations, then he operated two out of nine once. Hardly, "signs, miracles, and wonders following the man of God like a tail follows a dog." Hardly proof he was in fellowship. Can I SIT when I'm out of fellowship? Yes. Can I interpret? Yes. I think one or two people here even said they made up their interpretation beforehand just in case they were called on. We are talking about the person that once said: "The leader sets the example," right? We are talking about the person who expected me to follow his lead, right? Did Paul womanize then rationalize it as well my walk was terrible, you know how that goes. How many people do you think would have followed him? Saint Vic knew full well he was doing evil, that's why he worked so diligently to cover it up. And, when you think about it, covering it up is compounding the sin, not asking forgiveness. And the little point we were trying to make is that Saint Vic never lived up to his self-referencing. George Carlin once said: "I have as much authority as the Pope, it's just not as many people follow." Well, to paraphrase, I have as much authority as Saint Vic, it's just not as many people follow

This is along the lines of the question I keep asking: if Saint Vic was everything he claimed he was, where are those "signs, miracles, and wonders that follow the Man of God the way a tail follows a dog"?

Wierwille closes the 12th Session of pfal ......... just write "The Teacher." His self-referential title was a red flag..........he proclaimed to be THE ONE who could/would do the teaching as well as THE ONE to answer all questions. This self-claimed authority should have alerted us. And, when we received his books during pfal..........did we take the time to check any bibliographies? What were his sources? Did the book reference credible sources or were his sources self-referential? Who was this Victor Paul Wierwille? Where did he learn language/research skills? Where did he get his doctorate? Looking back, I see how he framed his persona in a self-referential cloak........similar to one like L. Ron Hubbard. While wierwille framed his allure with "keys to biblical research" and classes structured for spiritual enlightenment.......L. Ron Hubbard is best known for his science fiction and fantasy stories and a tiered-system called Dianetics. Wierwille had his stories too, but they were designed to illustrate "believing"......or believing in reverse, fear. Were these stories real, or fiction? As students, we were subjected to this meandering journey of cherry-picked verses from hither and yon, new testament to old testament.....back and forth we went. Some things were eternal truths and some were subjected to the dispensation that you were in. But the grand finale of it all......was to stand up and utter in an unknown language. But the question that continued to surface in my mind, year after year.........Why have I never seen wierwille operate any of 'the big six manifestations?' And, that year at the rock of ages when wierwille led a "healing service" .........why did he summon all the advanced class grads and corps to come forward to minister healing while he stood on stage and DID NOTHING? Put up or shut up, wierwille. Actions speak louder than words. I'd rather see WHAT YOU DO, than what you say. Shrouded in mystique, wierwille subtly built walls of defense to separate himself from scrutiny. He surrounded his "self-referential greatness" with enablers, bodyguards and sycophants as they hailed his arrival with jubilant applause. But as the circus left town..........all that was left from this event was elephant dung.

You mean like proclaiming you have the only true word of God than stealing others ideas and raping women?

It's about church history and contemporary conduct. It also relates directly to Wierwille's sense of entitlement and inability of the cult to recognize the ramifications of its practice in the lives of victims. I did not cite any politicians or suggest any need for legislation. While politics has to do with people, and this is about people, it's most definitely NOT about suggesting public policy remedies to a most obvious problem. Also, we know that Wierwille's first successor was confronted in court, with not necessarily fulfilling or completely satisfying outcomes for victims of sexual assault in the cult. But thanks, Raf, for defining (sort of) a boundary for the discussion.

It happened again yesterday. I came across another person who took the pfal class......and stayed with twi for almost three years. Yep, back in the early 80s, she took pfal and even attended the roa one year. Her comments were....."It was a good experience and I learned alot." Yet.......some things came up in her life and she left twi. BUT.......holds some good memories. This story seems to repeat itself over and over and over again. The local twig had some fun-loving, caring people who really loved God. Young-hearted and youthful energy was abounding. The music was God-inspiring and hearts were affixed on God's power to heal and deliver. It seems obvious that the longer one stayed, the INDOCTRINATION PROCESS overran the feel-good comaraderie of the local fellowships. The longer one stayed..........the more one was required to DO. The manipulation and micro-management of twi followers was exponentially increased when one became an "advanced class" grad. Yet, the corps program contained some of the ultimate experiences of an isolation cult training wherein the controlling, intimidating scream-fest leaders followed wierwille's lead. Yeah...........I stayed too long. And therefore, I have lots of BAD Memories.