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Penworks, DWBH, and T-Bone, wow! All three of you have great posts, so I will address all three of you. Penworks, thank God, I can get your book at Barnes&Noble. I have, have to read it! I know you knew VPW first-hand, and have much to say about him, and TWI. DWBH, I knew in time you would have something kind, but funny to day about Mike's Dreck here on the GSC. You never fail to disappoint. Dreck is Dreck; it could be Dreck from the early 1970' s, or Dreck from 2017, it is still Dreck. T-Bone, I too was caught in a mental prison while in TWI. Finally, after 10 years, I got out of it, through the mercy of God. But, this is what I really want to say. I know this is off Topic, but to me it is important. My Gentleman friend, and I saw the movie "The Post" this afternoon, and it was great. It was about the Pentagon Papers, and how the "Washington Post" stuck it's neck out to bring people the truth about the Viet Nam war. The truth isn't always pretty, but we as a nation need to know the truth, about what happens in society, and throughout the world. To me, the purpose of the GSC is to tell the truth, about VPW, and the TWI. If people want to hear, the truth about TWI, they will. If they want to BS, about TWI, they can, and will, here at the GSC. It is up to them, to do what they want about the information they receive from this Website. I live in DC, and I think 2018 will bring a lot of changes to the American Presidentcy, and the nation. Shalom.

JayDee: Mike will never stop with his annoying, circular illogic, doublespeak, babble. He enjoys talking about HIMSELF and dictor paul, his MOG of choice. He's always got another post of Unabomber quality ready to go. I appreciate you, and Socrates speaking logical counterpoint. But, debating with the willfully insane is a profoundly futile effort. He'll go on posting this delusional, deranged gibberish as long as there is a response. It's like a cat toying with a mouse. Again, I appreciate your logical counterpoint, but insanity owns NO logic, no shame, and no authentic humility. Good luck, and.................peace.

This is like me telling you if you don't want to accept the ground rules of evil Saint Vic stealing others work, then bow out of the debate. I would never do that. You know why? It would be conceding. It would be saying, I can't address the points he's making. I have just as much right to present an alternate viewpoint as you do. And I will continue to do so. What's wrong? I'm making headway so you have to silence me? See the above post. A copy of an earlier post. Let's see how many more trivialities we can find in the 5-senses realm. Rape...that's in the 5-senses realm, do you think that's trivial? Abuse..that's in the 5-senses realm, do you think that's trivial? PLAF...that's in the 5-senses realm, do you think that's trivial? The bible.. that's in the 5-senses realm, do you think that's trivial? Saint Vic..,he was in the 5-senses realm, do tou think he was trivial? Now that we've established that things in the 5-senses realm aren't so trivial, we're back to the original question: If God owns his word, which makes it okay to steal others work, and God owns everything in the earth, then why is it okay to steal in one realm, but not the other? (I'll add the earth we'll all inherit and Psalms 115:16, as you seem to love moving goal posts)

There's just no arguing or reasoning with someone who's totally convinced he's right. Available in other translations here: http://biblehub.com/proverbs/26-4.htm Available in other translations here: https://www.biblestudytools.com/proverbs/13-20-compare.html

As I continue to read Mike’s post on this topic, I’m stunned at his level of dedication and commitment to an alcoholic, misogynist, delusional, serial rapist. Mike, you can’t seperate the man’s actions, legacy, and words from the man. Sorry. The convicting, eyewitness evidence is overwhelming. He was a false prophet. He was an unconvicted felon. I’m glad when I read something from an legitimately educated theologian, or for that matter scripture itself, that I no longer ask myself “What did VeePee or twi teach me about this 40 years ago”? Took me a while to get over it, but I did. Yeah. Really glad.

The bibliography was fine. The arguments in the book were weak. Which is not to say ALL of the arguments were weak. Some were quite good. But taken as a whole, weak. The CES book was MUCH better, though it dishonestly did not cite Wierwille's book in its bibliography.

And the writings were a transcription of the class. Which, once again, was stolen from someone else.

Time and time again, I, and many other posters, have openly stated there were good times and good people mixed in with the bad. The take-away point here is that the good does not outweigh the bad. Same goes for the PFAL materials. There may be some good mixed in with the bad. But, there is just too much bad to make it a worthwhile pursuit.

Not playing in Arizona until January 11. I fully intend to see it the first weekend it's available here.

Me too!

Grace - your post is very much right on topic !!! I've seen the ads for "The Post" and definitely want to catch that movie!!!!

Last year I saw Tomorrowland with my youngest son, and Brit Robertson stood out as a shining star. Her facial expressions were incredibly on track, and added an immense depth to her character. Then this year I saw her in Mother's Day, and again she shined bright. Probably the best young female I've seen lately.

I know, I was trying to be ironic.

I think I'm getting a bead on the crux of the whole stealing others work difficulty for Mike When people here at GS reference plagerism, Mike, they are NOT, repeat NOT, refering to themes. Romeo And Juliet and West Side Story have the same theme. Every yuletide some sitcom does a variation of the A Christmas Carol theme. Themes are not copyrighted and fair game for anyone wanting to use them. However, where Saint Vic went off the rails was by copying other peoples work word-for-word. Those words are copyrighted and it is plagerism. I've seen side by sides of others and Saint Vic's works. Someone would write sentences ABCD and Saint Vic would write exactly the same sentences BDAC. If he had put the themes in his own words there would be no problem, but no00000000!, he had to steal the work word-for-word. Think about it, if he had cited those works, word-for-word, he had stolen, he may have gained even more street cred as the person who put it all together. But, mores the pity, it was more important to steal other words.

In all of Mike’s posts over the years, where is honor and glory given to Jesus Christ, the head of the church? Where? I see honor and glory given to the cult leader he heaps praise and adulation upon. But, what about Jesus Christ? Where does he fit in your “Way Box”. What I see like so many others who were mesmerized by the cult leader(s) is there is no room at all for the active presence of Jesus Christ. Right? Wrong? What?

Well put Penworks! I've been waiting for a comment from you! You are so good at courteously stating the obvious about TWIt propaganda as spread by delusional wierwille sycophants. If anyone here at GSC is experientially and intellectually qualified to accurately review and critique dictor's "research" principles and "techniques" (private interpretation by drambuie revelation) from a firsthand POV, it is you! We've written tons here regarding the actual FACTS of dictor's "research" principles, how "his" books were actually put together, what the sourcing was, and how it was forced to be handled professionally and academically as the highly educated linguists, and textual critics began arriving in the research dept. as they finished their REAL degrees at accredited universities of international repute. Dic's sloppy, vapid, anti-intellectual, baseline provided nothing of genuine value in the field of textual criticism or MS research. It was ALL plagiarized from the sources repeatedly documented here at the GSC. ALL OF IT! I try not to write much on Mike threads, because it's like debating the reality of a My Little Pony episode, or a particularly disturbing episode of Criminal Minds, where the unsub is disconcertingly weird. If looked at substantively, what he says is like reading a bad translation of C.S. Lewis' The Lion, the Witch and The Wardrobe. It is increasingly annoying with each post. So, rather than posting a sarcastic, cynical NYer 'tude comment, I just read and see how others respond. After 15 years, I have finally concluded that Mike is totally meshuggene with his verkackte wierwille-worship. That's a Yiddish way of saying it nicely. Thanks to all who take the time to post in response to Mike's delusional propaganda. It protects newbies and lurkers from the insanity of wierwille drunken delusional, self-aggrandizing Bible fairy tales. Mike lives in a reality of his own making. I knew him back in the day, both in NY, and at HQ. He is a harmless, good-natured, gentle and kind soul imo. But, he got stuck in a bad batch of kult koolaid because of some 14 year old hippies (who I also know) who were electrified by Jesus Christ as they knew him for the first time. They were in the midst of a genuine Christian revival that dictor paul was lucky enough to grab a piece of and make his P.T. Barnum fortune, and service the needs of his perverted sexual compulsions. They escaped eventually. Mike loves it in the briar patch with the tares. He's happy and comfortable in his delusions. He is a physical threat to no one. He is just a lost pilgrim on the dpw bullshit road who loves the journey to nowhere. Not even Narnia. Peace Mike.

What an amazing way to keep the propaganda going ... with more propaganda! With posts like these, you keep yourself and others from climbing outside the TWI box and learning new things, like what research really means. Your spouting off about VP's so-called research would be funny if it weren't for the fact that it shows how some people are still very delusional when it comes to understanding what VPW did. To me, this is a sad reminder of the damage he caused. Penworks. P.s. My real name is Charlene Edge and my personal story of being on the research team in The Way can be found in my book, Undertow.

So much more class than my post. I rhyme to shake out the cobwebs. Because to me although I knew certain details, putting them together into a large picture just didn't happen. The circuits were disconnected. It took too many years and too much personal impact to my life to put those details together into a coherent picture. And that coherent picture includes a detailed historic timeline of the Way. From inception to current. And it is NOT what they project. People don't work that hard to hide things that are appropriate, true, honest, just, lovely. They work that hard to hide the exact things we bring to light here. That do exist. That are true. People live according to the lusts of their own belly. Those lusts in many ways are for power and influence. They worship their positions in the organization. The only overarching truth in their minds is "God called ME to THIS POSITION". Therefore they shut their ears. Actually their ears were welded shut by their own lusts for power. I used to know all of those fools and they me. In a time where it was my whole life. During a time where all I had was fake friends. A false "household". That false "household" led me to treat real friends poorly, real family poorly, real Christians poorly, real community from a position of condescension. The same way the false "household" treats people today. Why? Because they can't help it. Draconian rules. One way conversation. Teaching / Talking at people. Narcissistic viewpoints. The "household" I have today is kind of a ragtag amalgamation. I've got the family component. I've got the pet component, one that a corpse lifestyle never accomodated. I've got the neighbors friends component - a real community. You know, cookie exchanges, birthday golf. Shooting. Prayers over holiday meals. Respect each others church. One I didn't have moving rental to rental. I've got longtime friends that I visit. I've got real hobbies. I've got a career. The people I work with are like a strange family of sorts. There's politics at times. But nothing of the Way magnitude of viper's den. I've got my faith. I've got a church. And a new viewpoint on the stupidity of fundamentalism. Actually, my life isn't all that bad today all these years after leaving the Way. So why do I still come here and make up funny little rhymes? I could give a flippant answer, but honestly coming here and reading and writing helps me to recover from that false "household". I'm still putting together threads of truth from that whole time period, years later. And in a way, I guess the posters here are a part of the ragtag amalgamation of a household I've got going on now. And if my meanderings help inspire similar paths, then perhaps I also am performing my 18 Hail Mary's as an act of contrition from being a part of the Way leadership. So go ahead and judge me and my "household" I know you've been doing it for years anyway. I'd put it up against yours any day of the week, Way followers. R&R aspiring "leadership", splinter group followers and leaders.

Its taken me nearly 10 years to find myself after the corps and being mistreated by the directors. Please pm me if theres anything i can do or help with. Ive learned to be a listener instead of a lecturer. I wish u all the best!

The Way is judged by its own fruit. Nothing necessary from me. Other than pointing out to people Jesus teaching on that topic.

"True" gle Translate: So, now that we have marked and avoided another batch of people, some of which were on our salary, we have some extra money due to cutting them and we actually have a lot less followers too to send a gift to. So what to do? Spend the extra money spent on axing salaries to buy a cheesy ornament for those followers not smart enough to leave with the crowd. Write down some sentimental words that express your power grab over decades, calling that "standing and believing". Throw in a nice little KJV "Oh ye" at the end to sound more formal. Done and done. Way followers, there's your Christmas present. Except you can't say Christmas.