Leaderboard

This always amazes me. They wreck how many lives? They abuse how many people? They refuse to listen to their iniquities for how many years? Then, when it's obvious the ship is sinking, they think all it takes is a an apology and all will be fogiven and it'll all go back to business as usual. Tell me, if somebody robs your house, you may forgive them, but are you gonna let the front door unlocked? If someone stole money from you, you may forgive them, but are you going to let your cash lay around when they come visiting? If they were sincerely sorry, they would resign and put the ministry in the hands of someone who will run it the way the claim they will.

“Pretty crappy” doesn’t come close to the evil these folks were/are a part of. And because you “didn’t experience” what they did makes it no less evil. These folks have been known “by their fruits”. For decades. That’s why you’re being warned. Could they change and repent? I honestly don’t know. Their video that’s been viewed here at GSC didn’t indicate any change of heart IMO. You mentioned Vince Finnegan in another comment. My suggestion is to search him here at GSC and you’ll find out all you want to know about him. I trust you’ll take the time. Again, thanks for taking your time to post here. Your insights into both groups are appreciated.

What I experience was nothing compared to what many others in this forum experienced. However, as to proving themselves. How much of a chance did they give a person to prove themself before a facemelting? Before they marked and avoided them? They've had plenty of opportunity to prove themselves, years and years of opportunities. How many people do you think approached them to tell them where they were off and, rather than listen to them, they had those people marked and avoided? The Scorpion And The Frog A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.” The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp “Why?” Replies the scorpion: “It’s my nature…”

I came to realize in my time in twi as corps assigned to hq that the home fellowships prop twi up on a false pedestal. The home fellowships could be really hot, and even some branches, but hq with rosalie and donnas mandates, just sucked the life out of anything that blipped on their radars as non-conformist to hq's legalistic ways. The closer a person gets to the board of dummies the more they are faced with a choice. Open their eyes to the hypocritical evil in practice by the bod, or do what many still do:

Welcome to GSC Taxidev. I’m curious how you manage to be “currently involved with both groups”? Aren’t they mutually exclusive these days? The idea that they’re “a new group, still finding their way” is (forgive me) laughable IMHO. These folks have been around for decades and were a big part of VeePee and twi’s hypocrisy, and deception. They were enablers and contributed to destroying countless lives. They’re not trying to undo anything. They still think VeePee was the greatest since Saul of Tarsus. I’m sorry, but I don’t see that they deserve or warrant any “consideration” except people should be warned about what they’re up to which in my mind is no good. I’m glad you’re here with the courage to post your views. Please keep it up. Merry Christmas.

Clearly, you haven't read Charlene Edge's personal history. She worked for several years in Dictor's "research" department. Dictor very much was insistent on his own private interpretation holding sway.

Twi leadership has been that for a long, long time.

Initially, by conferring together and composing a letter of issues they had all noticed, almost entirely independently, they had all taken a long look at what the Word says about the things they were seeing, to make sure they were on the right track. Now, they address in their public teachings many of the issues that they have had to address, many of the wrongs they also had a hand in, and what the Word says about these things. Personally, I have had only positive experiences with some of them, and no experiences with the rest. Not being in leadership myself, there were many things going on I was not aware of. But other things they did bring up, while not seeing them directly, I was feeling the effects of in my fellowship. For instance, outreach. It's been over a year since I have invited someone to fellowship. I was very happy to discuss the bible and God, but I made no move to invite them. Why? Because in my gut I felt it would be wrong, even though I didn't understand why I felt that. Now I do. And on this topic, R&R has shown, in the Word, that outreach isn't about getting people to a fellowship or in a class, it is about clearing the fog for people, to show them the light of the Word. That's it. If they want more, they'll ask for more. But they don't have to sit in a WI class to get more, I am quite capable to teach them more. And that's really what we should be doing. The Word fitly spoken. For free. This is just one example of the doctrinal error TWI has propagated that the R&R group is dismantling. The tithe is another, which I have already mentioned. There are others, but I need to sleep. I'll be back, and we can continue this discussion.

Perhaps you weren't completely clear. "They don't want our money." ≠ " they want each of us to give where we see fit." "They don't want our money" does equal that they already have enough money to cover start up costs for their new enterprise. I'd wonder where they got it. "They are a new group, still finding their way..." Well, maybe... but it really just looks from here like they just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic, figuratively speaking. Though TWI really isn't comparable in size to the Titanic. The leaders of "R&" (no longer two R's, right?) aren't new people. Moneyhands and most of the others have been in TWI for at least four decades. I would also ask you to help us understand what they are undoing and how they are going about it undoing it.

Taxi, thanks, but I really am NOT interested in R&R. I would rather spend my time in at the GSC. I am pleasantly surprised by how much Godly information I glean from reading the posts. But again, thank you for the information.

Thanks for your response Taxidev and I’m glad you’ll be around awhile and will be sharing on what’s happening in both groups...I value everyone’s input here - it helps me see the bigger picture.

Mike, have you ever thought about looking at how other authors interpret the scriptures? There’s one book in particular that I’m fond of it’s Introduction to Biblical Interpretation by Klein, Blomberg, and Hubbard Jr. if you follow that Amazon link you’ll note there’s now a newer edition than the one I have... but anyway I prefer using an interpretive process like the one shown in this book (but I'm flexible and consider many valid methods) rather than something that is subjective (like one’s attitude, as you suggested wierwille taught) since the authors describe hermeneutics which is the science of Biblical interpretation; the authors also survey the literary, cultural, social, and historical issues that impact the text and evaluate the different approaches to Bible interpretation, and they even get into what I think is extremely important because it’s something that relates to what you said - the role of the interpreter and identifying what we bring to the text that could distort the message... I believe everyone has some bias on different things - - but an important consideration is whether or not one is aware of that...and I'll be upfront with you in that regard; I do not trust anything that wierwille said. It's a bias I adopted after I realized I was conned by him. However, when it comes to analyzing anything he said - I suspend that bias and focus not on wierwille but on the content of what he said. Is that such a hard thing to understand? I tell you what – it’s a very easy thing to do – once you separate the myth from the reality – look past your bias - then it’s easy to assess the facts; honestly, I think you spend too much time trying to shore up some fond memories of wierwille or maybe you’re just afraid to admit you’ve invested all you’ve got on a flimflam man...I mean, why else would you avoid reading Mrs wierwille's book for some 20 years? afraid your image of wierwille would not jibe with her perspective on the man? Her own husband - in her own words! ...Well, Mike before life is over, think long and hard about this - it's never too late to cut your losses and move on. when analyzing the content of what he said - I will often discover a serious flaw in the logic he used or incompetency in the way he handles a subject - this really becomes evident if you review one of wierwille's sources that he heavily plagiarized and made a part of PFAL - Bullinger's How to Enjoy The Bible. You might want to mull that over as you ponder the last few sentences of this post. I think the concern over validating any of the wierwille’s works is pointless when you consider his plagiaristic tendencies and self-promotion. If there’s anything of merit once you sift through his mangled cobbling together of other folks’ ideas and works then , by golly, you have merely found the window dressing of a con man. It was part of the web of deceit to entangle folks around his ego- trip. It was a grand misrepresentation – he actually claimed God spoke to him and would teach him “the word”. He led people to believe the only way to see the greatness of “the word” was through him. He discouraged critical thinking in any who followed him. Once a person gets out of the TWI-frame-of-mind they realize the predominant theme in all of wierwille’s works is actually just the greatness of wierwille’s works. There's really a subtext that runs along the lines of you won't find this stuff out there in the churches...no one is concerned about the accuracy and integrity of the word like I am...where else are you going to find someone who can put the word together like a hand fits in a glove....we've all heard him say things like that throughout his "career".... whether followers realized it or not - wierwille set himself up as the gatekeeper for truth...the middle man - - so in effect folks assumed God, as the inspiration behind scripture - would provide wierwille with the inside scoop on the Bible - which in turn was funneled through him to you...followers assumed God would guide wierwille to rightly divide the word and he would then teach it to everyone.......How belittling that is of God…how that trivializes the scriptures…how that disparages the wonderfully intricate brain that he created with its profound capacity for insight, emotion, logic, analysis, language, creativity etc. I think it’s disappointing you put so much stock in wierwille’s spiel on “man’s interferences through miscopying and mistranslation and wrong dividing” rather than in the facts of the matter. I think wierwille’s rigmarole over that was a clever way to entice students and followers to join him in the pursuit of that ever elusive thing of "getting back to original God-breathed Word” with wierwille leading the way, of course. I mean really now – what qualified him to be a teacher or interpreter of the Bible? Are you familiar with the fact that he lied about taking courses through the Moody Bible College correspondence program? I would also suggest another book for your reading list The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable by FF Bruce Bruce presents compelling historical evidence to defend the trustworthiness of the New Testament manuscripts. Mike, I think you need to get a better yardstick rather than measuring everything by the standard of PFAL…I don’t care if you want to look into some other scholarly works than the ones I mentioned – and believe me there’s a lot of great stuff out there – by great stuff I mean books on hermeneutics that follow a scientific discipline which is honestly handling the facts in a consistent and systematic way as well as just being competent in the grammar of the biblical languages… Now be honest, Mike - do you still believe the Bible interprets itself? wierwille made such a big deal over that in PFAL - "the Bible is of no private interpretation" remember? Truthfully now - do you still believe the Bible interprets itself? What verse or verses in the Bible support that premise? love and peace T-Bone

Yeah but vpw was a little Goofy and he ran a mickey mouse operation

Sounds like a Disney movie

Totally agree........corps "training" was regurgitated drivel and straight-up indoctrination, no thinking minds need apply. And.......that's why I never visited that corps site. Why would I want to hang with indoctrinated sycophants in this exclusive club? Yeah, it was an exclusive club alright........exclusively brain dead of any critical thinking skills and acting accordingly.