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Well..........it looks like I missed Oldskool's post in August concerning this face-plant group. Therefore, my comments are in red.......inserted for translation.

Kathy, we would all agree with you in that sentiment. In fact, almost any life is better than the drudgery and crushing guilt of TWI.

Since I joined in order to post to a different forum, I thought putting some background information on myself would be a good preface in case someone thinks "so who is this person who wrote this?" I am posting comments I made 20 months ago on a Facebook page called "The Way International: we used to belong to a cult." The topic are the similarities I found between VPW/TWI and L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. So here's my brief bio: I come to this site once or twice a year, having been out (thanks Dave Patterson and Michael Fort for the favor!) in excess of 22 years now. I was active in CFF from the group's inception but a visit to the annual Family Reunion in 2006 made me aware of the herd mentality that is prevalent in groups. Since then extensive reading of the works of Bart Ehrman, the bona fide living expert on the NT, in conjunction with returning to college and learning empirical science have rendered me an apostate. I openly admit it. Agnostic is as far as I choose to identify; like Bill Maher I profess to belong to "The Church of 'I don't know." Ten years ago if I was reading this I would think how tragic, how can a person not believe, but I no longer believe that any religion conclusively has a divine doctrine. I am not ruling out the possibility but I no longer believe that the bible is the source of truth.

In April 2016 I stumbled across a Facebook account titled "The Way International: we used to be cult members." I posted on the comment wall about the similarities between two religious organizations that began post WWII- The Way International and The Church of Scientology. Since parallels have been recently mentioned in the thread about R&R, I have chosen to post my comments here (which include my opinion) for what it's worth: "There is an excellent documentary available on HBO that is quite elucidating. (Cable or Satellite subscription are not required to view it. HBO NOW is the recently added streaming channel that can be viewed on a computer, tablet, phone, Roku, and other modalities. There is even a free trial period offered.) The documentary is titled "Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief." What does this have to do with The Way International? In my opinion, everything. Viewing the documentary, I saw so very many parallels between the inception, formation, programs, and insider jargon used in Scientology, and those used by The Way International. During the post-WWII period when Victor P. Wierwille was the minister of the church in Van Wert, and after the "Vesper Chimes Hour" radio show had begun broadcast, a pulp fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard had an epiphany. That epiphany was that a good way to become wealthy was to start a church and a religion. He wrote "Dianetics" and started traveling the USA, teaching seminars and classes. Hubbard exaggerated his experience as a WWII Navy officer, embellished the story, and included that in his self-presentation. Both The Way International (hereafter to be referred to as TWI) and the Church of Scientology ( hereafter to be referred to as COS) started with a singular individual who rose to prominence as the founder, and prophet figure of the organization. Both Wierwille and Hubbard obfuscated facts about their experiences and education. Both utilized a multi-step program of offering classes and sessions that came at a price, each with the promise of increased insight and knowledge of things not commonly known outside of the organization. Both started an organization for the most dedicated of volunteers based on a military program: Hubbard started the SEA Org, the COS equivalent of TWI Way Corps. Both programs required intensive, in residence training that utilized sleep deprivation, long hours of labor, and concentrated indoctrination. Both programs required that the volunteer members join for life; both programs instilled in volunteers a sense of giving their lives in service not only to the organization, but also to humanity and the world on a whole. For those persons not able to participate in the dedicated service program, the teachings and level of knowledge usually afforded only to those individuals was available for a price, after the applicant was recommended by a leader based on their proven devotion. In the COS, this was the program of attaining levels of being Clear, until a person was an operationg Thetan. In TWI, this program was known as The University of Life. Both organizations enticed people with the dangling carrot of a knowledge reserved only for the most dedicated and elite. In both organizations, the founding leader was alternately referred to by their initials- in the COS, L. Ron Hubbard is affectionately called "LRH" and in TWI, Victor Paul Wierwille is known as "VPW." Both organizations engage in the practice of labeling persons outside of the organization, especially those who are former adherents. Both organizations issue unofficial decrees to active members to remove themselves from the company of former members, and actively cause divisions in families. The COS categorizes people as "SP" for suppressive person, in the same fashion that TWI uses "M&A" for mark and avoid. Both organizations replaced the founder with an even more malevolent and controlling leader; the COS with David Miscavage, TWI first with L. Craig Martindale, and most recently, Rosalie Rivenbark. Both organizations have had active investigation by the IRS, and had suspended non-profit church status for a period of years until a legal agreement was reached. Both organizations impress upon their adherents the importance of donating to support the organization, and expect a generous portion of the adherents' wages and assets. My opinion is that Victor Wierwille heard about Hubbard and to put it figuratively, took notes. Both organizations cohesively laid their blueprint in the 1950s. I don't think it is a coincidence." Addendum: "Scientology believes that humans are inhabited by intangible lifeforms who influence their thoughts and actions, and that only by auditing can a person become clear. The Way teaches that people's brains and bodies host intangible lifeforms in the way of devil spirits, who must be divested by stringent application of doctrine, and in rare cases, cast out. Scientology teaches that an evil lord Xenu transported extraterrestrials from their home planet in aircraft that resemble DC-8 and placed them around volcanoes on earth, and then detonated hydrogen bombs causing the intangible part called Thetans to flee the alien bodies, which then in turn inhabited human bodies. The Way teaches that there is an evil lord Satan, the devil, whose fallen angels roam the earth seeking bodies to inhabit. The Way amped it up further with the doctrine of the seed of the serpent, that a person could be born again of the devil. Other parallels include both organizations' bi-lateral castigation of homosexuals; both organizations owning multiple locations of real estate, some of which serve as recreational areas for adherents; (okay yes, all churches do that as well.) Both organizations place a very high emphasis on adherents actively recruiting new followers. Both organizations are opposed to the medical practice of Psychiatry and the counseling practice of Psychology."

Skyrider, I love your comments in red - isn’t it fascinating how all “rogue” diehard way-mindset folks are vying for a piece of the cult-pie...and I wonder what drives it...just thinking out loud here - a desire for doctrinal “purity” ...desire for financial gain...a chance for one’s own ego trip... What would all these offshoots look like on a pie chart? Adapting the image below - other than the variations in color (which could represent particular preferences for certain way-doctrine/practice ) I think the most critical thing is the size of the slice - which translates to more money for the leaders of each particular group...sadly - all the slices are still a part of this one vicious circle of cultdom. And perhaps the only revision I would offer for the image I borrowed below - I would say all the slices are new (offshoots) save for the biggest blue slice - representing The Way International.

Sadly, so many "Christian" organizations are nothing more than money making enterprises. VPW put his product together in the 1950's then capitalized on the Jesus Freak movement of the late 1960's. A lot of cults started during the 1960's. David Berg's Children of God is another one that comes to mind.

Welcome to Grease Spot , Kathy ! I enjoyed reading your thread on parallels of wierwille and Hubbard. I watched the “going clear” documentary when it first came out on HBO (I think) and later bought the dvd, the book on which it’s based and then a few other books on Scientology. But I still love to hear other folks’ take on that stuff. “Great” cults do think alike...more like group-think, that is. I appreciate your honesty and how you’ve been developing critical thinking skills - those things resonate with me...since I’ve been coming to Grease Spot I’ve felt that much of my belief system is in a state of flux - yeah in many ways I’d probably qualify as a member of “the Church of I don’t know “ myself...on that note, you might want to check out a thread in doctrinal forum titled “Concerning the Bible” - if you feel so inspired by all means please share something of your journey... I find the things that folks say about their journey away from group-think is inspirational...fascinating...enlightening... Enjoy the coffee and threads Love & peace T-Bone

I just skimmed the recommended thread. The focus seems to be on the Remini series; I don't know if many are aware of the HBO documentary Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It has content not included in the Remini series as well as topics covered in the series, albeit in a much more condensed form.

I think it would be easier to get folks to drink the Kool-Aid if you just called it something else - something that appealed to one’s sense of ownership; something like “Yakult”. It’s the idea that the cult doesn’t own you - you own the cult! Yeah - I want to order one of those at a concession stand and hear the server say “here’s Yakult”. yeah tell me that again “it’s your cult” ...I own it! Woo-hoo!

The Scorpion And The Frog A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.” The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp “Why?” Replies the scorpion: “It’s my nature…”

Soc, I grew up on a farm. One thing I learned is that Cow S--t is Cow S--t, no matter how it is packaged.

I'm thinking a poisoned well because of all the lies Saint Vic et al perpetrated. The Word as its presented by The Way is poison, as it kills the soul. The whole ministry is not based on providing means of salvation, as it claims, its based on filling whoevers in power's belly: First Saint Vic, then LCM, then RR. The faces change, but the purpose remains the same: to fulfill their lusts. In my book, that's not only a broken cistern, that's poisoning the water. And, like drawing water from a well, the assorted spin off groups are attempting to package this tainted water as new and improved spring water that will refresh your soul and quench your thirst.

Well I mean eventually you would think the flock would get the hint. Those at HQ want to construct their own little city and live blissfully with their own little vision of being a "worldwide ministry". They don't want to actually interact with the flock though. Nobody travels to see people, nobody has personal contact - the Way ministry is all run through classes, teaching or lesson plans and weekly phone calls. Talk at people consistently, never listen to them, and stubbornly persist ahead with a organizational plan and a thick head. Get those butts in chairs listening to content and get them out knocking on doors getting more people in chairs to listen to content. These "revivalists" are really nothing more than the public Exodus of Boob plus a few friends. Hopefully their video will show a few what's up and inspire leaving. However, I note the highest ranking individual in the video in the Way organization being restricted from disclosing any details due to the fear of prosecution over a signed NDA as an officer of the Way. So I highly doubt that even with their best intentions they are going to affect very many at all under the Way's clutches. Just like Mark Twain's classic novels on Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, now that the fence is whitewashed, it's time to relax and float down the river.

Thanks,Allan! Basically,hoomans are social creatures and we need to be around others. To be"shelved" or "pigeonholed" becausd one didn't take the right class,or <talk the talk>, just crushed any desire to keep going to Fellowships. And the "I don't know you" attitude outside of Fellowships was the last straw. In Eastern societies,citizens are more open to meet and talk to strangers,and I find that refreshing! Jeff.

Hey brother ! Your story most likely resounds with thousands who were ever involved with twi...glad for the 'good bits', doubly thankful to God for getting the sweet Jesus out ! You are not alone.

"I'm not yelling at you I'm loving you!!! . . . Renew your mind!!"

Have one of THESE on the house. Did you miss anything? That depends on your perspective. From my point of view, you can consider yourself one of the lucky ones.,