Leaderboard

Socks said: One thing I do know - classes taught to people in living rooms huddled on brown metal chairs every night suck. It's a painful way to reach people but many of us endured. There are better ways to pass on the teachings of the Bible and the fundamentals of the Christian faith. It works but I feel so sad whenever I see photos of people in chairs in rooms somewhere and a guy at a table up front huddled down, "teaching". They talk, you shut up and listen, questions later. There are better ways, Socks. But those don't wear you down, leading to brainwashing and Waybrain.

Yeah, if there was a ministry program that i could sign up for i did. My last assignment was on the presidunce cabinet and was an exercise in futility...but....yes...ive been all around the way tree and climbed up and down that sucker too. The micromanagement by twi increased the deeper one went down the rabbit hole. And why wouldnt you want leadership looking over your finances? You are keeping your spiritual goals first? Right? Arent you willing to submit to the higher powers in the church? Etc...

Not sure it was mandated on the same level personal schedules were, or set in stone the same as the pregnancy policy for active corps, but yes i lived through this with my branch coordinator soon after i got involved with twi. Since my "spiritual goals" were to go way disciple and way corps i was asked submit my personal budget and had it restructured and approved by my branch coordinator. I had my abs increased and my priorities realigned financially to fit more inline with what martindale was spewing from his lectern. I was expected to submit my budget on a regular basis as well as my proposed and actual schedule each week. If u wanted to pursue ministey programs then it was expected that u fall in line with what was asked of you by leadetship. Incrementally, like orhers, my boundaries were removed and i had no idea of the steady erosion that had occured until years later.

Hello happy people. Everyone taking their Flintstone vitamins? Stayin' frosty, my friends? Keep at it, the world needs you. My icon is gone forever I see, lost in the ether of the server moves. Till I find it, I'm using the one at left, and if you know what it means please - remember the oath of silence. I will speak of this no more. The "WAP" class - I didn't "take" it or attend it or perhaps more accurately did not endure it. Some thoughts - They couldn't come up with a better name for the replacement to PFAL than that? The acronym WAP is so useless. I know, that's not the biggest issue at stake but to put that burden on the beleaguered shoulders of an already tired and worn out membership was kinda mean. It does fit the Martindale personae though. Did a man ever exist with less charisma? I liked Craig well enough when I knew him but he always seemed like a talking mannequin. I'm being kind here. Anyway... Bliss, that brochure cover looks like it's from the 70's, was some time travel involved in it being made? I don't have any innie friends so I am missing this kind of stuff. Good reason to keep it that way. It's incredibly strange for the Way to continue to promote a filmed product taught by a person they had to fire and disavow any connection to, even for the Way. Isn't he pretty much personae-non-grata at the Way for all practical purposes? I'm sure there's some reasoning for keeping it going but it can't over come the simple reality that to even play the product requires a disclaimer. I'd love to hear how they handle that. Lemme guess - "all your questions will be answered in the Class. After. So write them down now. For later. Sign here". I would guess it fits into their overall public relations strategy (sorry, had to clear my throat writing that, I'm back) buuuut if you look at their website there's apparently no real people with names involved, other than a few lines that refer to a "Board of Directors", which is I guess all they think the public needs to know. Even the quotes of happy customers have no name credited. ****** WAP 1, 2, 3 or whatever the titles - I was reminded that Martindale isn't the teacher of the WAP course that people would attend today, it's gone through a few revisions and is currently taught by 3 Representatives, See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Smell No Evil, I guess. So it's no longer Mr. Personality doing the teaching. I guess there's a ray of light in those clouds after all, hey? The Way is a perfect example of silo'd thinking. They're locked into a progression they feel they have to uphold so they don't look outside "the box" they're in. If they were as concerned about really reaching people and helping them as they are with avoidance and covering their asses they'd see there are some very very very obvious routes they could take to "re energize" their efforts that would still give them a layer of legal protection for past events, which is what it appears they're most concerned with. ******* Now knowing how frequently The Way loses people and members shift their status with them that may serve some purposes but it makes it look like a hack job, a phony business front, which is very common in the digital world today and is marketing -101 for the masses of online media miscreants gaming your clicks. Even the Catholic Church has a big ass photo of the current Pope mugging for the camera on the Holy See site. Sight. Web site. One thing I do know - classes taught to people in living rooms huddled on brown metal chairs every night suck. It's a painful way to reach people but many of us endured. There are better ways to pass on the teachings of the Bible and the fundamentals of the Christian faith. It works but I feel so sad whenever I see photos of people in chairs in rooms somewhere and a guy at a table up front huddled down, "teaching". They talk, you shut up and listen, questions later. It's not like they're trying to teach Calculus or Advanced Trigonometry or C# or Java. It can be done around a camp fire, over the phone, in a living room setting or in a coffee shop. It doesn't have to be crammed into 2 or 3 weeks, it can be done over days, weeks, months very effectively, as Christianity is a new life and a new lifestyle. Life doesn't jam into small spaces well. Many many years ago I spent hours on the floor of my living room with friends, bibles and books strewn across the floor reading and talking and studying. We chattered like kids. Well, we were, pretty much so we did. We drank coffee like it was a sacrament. We had a great time. There was laughter, at things no one had to be cued for! No one had to tell us to be on time but sometimes I had to tell them to go home when it got late. All that metal brown chair stuff is just cruel, and needs to be kept to a minimum. I guess it's no surprise they still hustle the old stuff though, it takes little effort and probably feels comfortable to them. "ROI". I wonder when they go to sleep at night there at the Way Nash if they hear echoes across the grounds, of years past and wonder at all, about anything....probably not. Stay swell, my friends! Peace! P.S. AOS? No. Absolutely not. Uh uh. Nada. Zip. Bad cha cha. Absolute travesty, took several years for everyone involved to evoke their "plausible deniability" clause. So no. Stop it. No. P.S.S. AOS? No. Does anyone really think they got ANYthing out of it's depiction of the devil spirit realm? Anyone wanted to be just like Craig? It has about the same emotional and intellectual impact as a Celebrex commercial and the spiritual value of an Our Lady of Fatima Merry Christmas Snow Globe............ Accept no substitutes for "no". It was a washed out waste of time that didn't survive, for good reason. No - the best comparison is that it had the same impact of Craig Martindale onstage that year at the ROA, illustrating the word "kratos", where he had his "trainer", Dupe, holding a big piece of wood that he then was supposed to karate chop in half with a single slice of his all powerful hand. Except he didn't, he bruised his hand and beat on that poor board two or three times until finally even Dupe looked embarrassed. it wasn't exactly Karate Kid, put it that way. (anyone else remember that?)

@johniam in NO WAY do I find any value in AOS except some sweat equity on the part of the cast. and @DontWorryBeHappy Billy was in a P0rn0?????? Do tell.

I have some friend innies that drive me crazy with their pushing the class at all kinds of venues. Every Faith convention, online business fb page, local farmers markets. Full displays of books and happy pictures of grads after the class. I could go on... i just find it mind boggling that in this day and age of the internet there are still people who jump at this. But, if you feel love bombed and a sense of community that you’ve been missing, I can see the appeal.

What I meant was PLAF was intentionally designed to wear you down, hence the running time of each class. After a half hour, 45 minutes your ability to think critically drops off dramatically and you start just accepting what your told

HEY JEFF!..........HEY JOHN!.............WHAT'S UP?? It's been almost a year now since you guys posted a load of your information, a long letter from you, john, as well as a number of other lengthy letters, documents, etc. about the happenings of your ministry here at the greasespot cafe...........soooo...........WHAT'S UP YOU GUYS???..........have you read the thousands of posts on your ces forum here at the spot??.........have you noticed the hundreds of thousands of "views" your forum has generated??.......are you totally disinterested in sharing with us greasespotters what's currently happening in and with your ministry regarding all those thousdands of posts, including your own??...........it's like trying to get answers from rosie, or geer, et al!!........your not just gonna offer us a second-rate remake are you??...afterall, the greasespot was nice enough to provide a forum for you guys!!.....can't you muster up the common courtesy of tossing some current answers and facts our way??..the spot was good enough to let you "lay out" your concerns and opinions here...........don't you think we deserve to hear/read your current understanding and opinions on the issues YOU posted here?? How about answering just the following questions for us, ok?? 1)what is your ministry's current teaching regarding the use or misuse of "personal prophecy"? 2)what is your ministry's current position regarding karen ann graeser's understanding and application of the "gift ministry" of a prophet?. what have you learned or "unlearned" from mark and karen ann? 3)what do you believe your ministry's responsibility is to your followers regarding an explanation of "what went wrong"? what have you done to correct any wrong doctrine or practice? 4)how will your ministry's leadership function differently in the future? in your opinion, have you or do you need to change how your leadership functions as prophets, teachers, pastors or evangelists? 5)do you still publicly or privately promote the momentous "training" to your followers? if yes, why? if no, why not? 6)who is currently on your board of directors? your prophetic council? 7)do you foresee a cooperative relationship between ces/stf and the graeser's and the resner's in the near future? if yes, on what grounds? if no, why not? i sure hope you don't refer me to your website(s)!......please have the love to post your responses here on your greasespot forum, won't you? i've checked your sites and have'nt found any info that even comes close to handling any of the questions above.........come on you guys.......don't "pull a twi" on us, ok??........ eagerly awaiting your replies!.................peace........

DWBH, no matter what type of day, I am having, your posts usually put a smile on my face. Oftentimes, they make me laugh!! Here in DC these days, laughter is a rare commodity.

It's a question I would ask them, and JAL, and anyone else trying to restore the (pfttttttttttttt!) "glory" of Saint Vic's ministry: So tell me, how do you build a fountain of living waters based on water drawn from a poisoned well?

https://revivalandrestoration.org/ Still sits out there - a page on the internet, still password protected. The people on the video were marked and avoided by the BOD of the Way which is how they handle all dissenting opinions eventually. They don't realize it yet but all the people on the video that they marked and avoided, those are the blessed ones because now they can go on to build their own lives and not be laying brick after brick building another wall for a sick cult.

What is the gestation period for cult offspring?

Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda. And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.

That concept is so embedded into the directors thinking that the colatterals (and many other publications, classes) are considered proven ministry research and are above reproach. Thus, the biblical student is still directed to keep researching whats been taught, but not to bring up any errors because 75 years of biblical research is above reproach. Kinda like the accumulated wisdom line john rupp fed me when referring to decisions made by the directors concerning my life....they knew better than me concerning my own life...lol

Of course they didn't want anyone doing their own research. Your own research might lead to the realization that PLAF is riddled with errors and Saint Vic is a fraud.

One possible reason TWI never taught proper budgetting: Why would they want to deprive themselves of more ABS? It's hard to convince people to live at need when you've told them to budget 15% to ABS.

There I was.........a young, college kid taking my 900 Kawasaki for a ride. The streets were quiet and the temperature was perfect for motorcycle riding on this sunday morning. After about an hour of cruising, I ventured to a nearby park where I wanted to stop and stretch my legs. I had noticed a small gathering of people in the distance so I throttled down to keep my presence non-disturbing to others. After parking my bike, I went for a short walk to take in the quiet serenity. Knowing others were in church, I always viewed sunday mornings as a time of prayer, reverence, and meditation. So, it came as a bit of a surprise when I walked back to my Kawasaki that a young man was standing there holding a Bible. He told me that he was a "WOW Ambassador" and that he and others (in that nearby group) were here in the city for one year to show people the essence of biblical research and how the Scriptures interpret themselves. Anyways............he invited me to a "twig fellowship" to check it out, and after three or four phone calls prompting me to attend, I went. I didn't see the selling of snake oil..........but I did see a couple of things. Having taken marketing classes in college, I sniffed a couple of marketing ploys in pfal that I thought wierwille used that seemed shady. But hey.......I was just a young buck, what did I know? It wasn't like I was getting involved in a cult......../sarc. I saw young people who greeted me with hugs and enthusiasm and a zeal to know God... I saw youthful vigor and concern for my life and where I was headed, now and the eternal.... I took pfal and thought, even with its quirkiness, that it answered most of my questions.... I thought those manifestations seemed repetitive......but that it was the beginning stages of holy spirit within... Except for pfal, I couldn't have cared less about twi's hq, policies, bureaucracy or the man, wierwille.... As a young nineteen year-old, I only really cared about those around me......a small circle of "friends".... Small, incremental steps.........that's what it takes to indoctrinate someone, anyone. Every time I attended twig or threw money into the horn-a-plenty, I was confirming my allegiance to this "outreach group." Of course, within weeks after taking pfal, I began to realize that these people in my college town were "neophytes" compared to others in this "way tree thing." But......all my growing trust and relationships were with THESE people, not the distant headquarters, or whatever. Every week and month that I spent going to twig and taking other classes, I was bonding my love and trust factor to them. Then, after eight months........the pleas for me to "go WOW" were constant. "You should go -- just one year, give one year to God and watch how He blesses you"......you won't believe how far He can take you in your life as you give to Him. So, after all the love-bombing and pleas, etc............I quit college and went WOW. Now, I had put more distance between my college education, college friends and room-mates, my parents and family.......and solidified my allegiance, and the decision I'd made, by plunging headlong into the WOW year. What a roller-coaster ride of a year...........some wild times, bare-cabinet moments, scary moments, answers-to-prayer moments and camaraderie with my WOW family thru tough times so that we could return to the ROA, having fulfilled our commitment to God. See, fulfill your vow.......that's what God honors. Keep your hands to the plow and don't look back......... Incremental steps........why would I go back to college when God has other plans for me? Go Way Corps, you've got what it takes......commitment, dedication and passion for the truth... This wasn't "selling snake oil"............THIS was me, my life, and how God needed me to help "move the word"..... At age 21.......who sees a deceptive, underlying, exploiting charismatic leader hiding in the shadows? BUT..............my first red flags came from the CF&S class and my first year in-residence when wierwille lashed out at corps grads who were exiting as cop-outs? I was stunned by the vehement anger and tone. At the 1978 Advanced Class, I was selected as a Branch Coordinator and was summoned to our coordinator's meeting in the Fireplace Room with Wierwille and Martindale. At this meeting was when wierwille blasted the three 8th corps guys for going "rogue" in their research and were possessed. This anger was laced throughout that advanced class.........and the following months of my first four months in-residence. I should have exited corps/twi then and there. Emotions and relationships, I believe.......are a MAJOR part in why people stay in this cult. Most people formulate their decisions on emotion, not logic......and certainly not "biblical research techniques". LOL. People stay in a cult and REFUSE to see the "snake oil".......it doesn't matter how "educated" they are. It takes something rather dramatic, or personal.....to see the snake oil, and get out. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. ............and still in a cult. .

Doncha love the "benefits of the class" - Learn how to: Get true peace in your life Know with certainty that you are going to heaven Develop a knowledge of the absolute goodness of God Know what happens when people die Enjoy reading the Bible Strengthen family relationships How to win in this life Hmm. If Jesus [who's he?] is a role model for "winning" "in this life" - the prize of crucifixion isn't one that would attract many people. Whoever said we would win in this life? Chapter and verse please! As to "Know with certainty that you are going to heaven" and "Know what happens when people die" - I know what the Bible says and what I understand and believe; but these "benefits" are still speculative. People don't come back from heaven (wherever or whatever that is) or after they've died, to tell us. We have a glorious future ahead of us - but we don't really know what it is going to be like. It will be different from this life, however, and beyond our wildest imaginings. I would say that all of the other things mentioned happen OUTSIDE TWI - and further, that any peace you have in your life now, or understanding of the goodness of God, or enjoyment in reading the Bible, and decent family relationships, will ALL BE SHATTERED BY TWI. And whoever put this poster together doesn't understand that they don't need to repeat the "how to" in the final benefit. They forgot to mention the charge, sorry donation, required for this "class series," too. Don't think I'll be in a hurry to sign up for this. (Runs away very fast.)

Great post , Don't Worry !!! Just like everything else the great con man wierwille sold folks on - a Twig being self-propagating, etc. was just another one of his false sense of empowerment bull$hit ideas. I think an expanded literal translation according to our "favorite" plagiarist's abuse would read: Every Twig is propagating wierwille himself, governed by wierwille himself, supporting wierwille himself. That's not to say this is how every Twig literally functioned - but depending on the degree to which the believers of any particular Twig actually bought into "all things the way international forever rah rah" then for all intents and purposes that's the degree to which they functioned as such.

"man's fences" . . . . . BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! Here's your fence you damned R&R numb nuts