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Hi Greasespotters! My first ever exposure to this most stupid of all dictor's "classes", was at The Way of NY CF&S Family Camp on Shelter Island in 1973. Back in those days, CFS was ONLY taught live by dic'n'Dotsie. There were NO tapes of any kind. I was on the Pilot Counsel for 2 out of of the 4 weeks TWIt NY rented the camp. Boob MoneyHands was the limp Coordinator, and he was there for all 4 weeks, except for the day he came to Huntington, NY to officiate at my first wedding. That's why I was only there for 2 weeks. The second two were taken up by wedding and honeymoon. Then right into the 4th corpse. The "class" was just dic up there rambling on about HIS particular views and peccadilloes, with Dotsie at his side to blush and giggle as necessary. Not much Bible at all really. The "highlights", so to speak, were 1) the original sin teaching that said the original sin was masturbation, 2)Proverbs 31 teaching on the "virtuous woman", 3) The slang terminology Sessions, and 4) The showing of T-Bone's favorite beastiality porn video. The rest was all Nite Owls and Drambuie-fueled ramblings about whatever dictor's delusions were bringing forth. Really annoying! During that porn vid session (which was a late morning session just before lunch), almost every one of the older adults.....22 of them....walked out and actually left the camp! That night's Nite Owl was a drunken rant from dic on how chicken "the adults" were and that he'd NEVER trust any one of them to lead anything, let alone a Twig! He was screaming and yelling like a man possessed (pun intended)! After all, there were no people over 40 there to yell back! They had all left that afternoon after lunch! He went on about whatever pissed him off. I was never happier to get out of a place to "do something" than I was that day and night. There were attempts to make some of the teachings available to grads, but only two ever made it out.....the original sin, and Proverbs 31. Nobody any where had the aura or adulation to do anything with this crazy material other than dic and a reluctant Dotsie. So, during the first week of December, 1973, dic attempted a black and white version of CFS, which he recorded live in his office and living room of " the president's home". We, the in-rez corpse (3rd & 4th) and staff were the live audience (read victims). Chairs were packed in as tightly as possible, and many of us sat in the "balcony" which was above the living room and dic's office. It of course, was the big buzz at HQ. Well, it was a typical dic show.....incomprehensible Drambuie rants, and some of the dumbest, most hoakey hillbilly, farmboy "sex advice" and "guidance" you have never heard before again in your life! LOL! After the "class" was finished, over the holidays, while the corpses were on Christmas vacation, which is what it was still called back then before the horrendous "Ho-Ho Relo", the decision was made that the new CFS class was just "not spiritually right" to send out, so the CFS remained live only with Vic there using some of the B&W tapes from 12/73 so he could drink and molest more women. The dog vid was axed. And, that's where CFS remained for several years, until dic tried yet again, including Doc Rawlins teaching all the sessions on sex and reproduction, childbirth, and neonatal care. I don't know whatever happened to those tapes, but they were excellent. So good in fact, that dic eventually deep-sixed them because Doc Rawlings was so excellent, knowledgeable, and humbly personable, that she made dic look like the dumb jerk he was! I left in 12/86, so I have no clue what happened with CF&S after that. Knowing what I know of TWIt's devolution from that point forward, I can only imagine how perverse, manupiulative, and destructive it became with Da Forehead at the helm! In the 70s as the "advanced studies classes" were mandated as pre-requisites for the AC, (Renewed Mind, The Way Tree, Witnessing and Undershepherding, Dealing With The Adversary), CF&S was initially included by trying to use the 12/73 B&W video. It never worked, and quickly, CF&S was removed from the pre-requisite advanced studies classes. Basically, imo, CF&S was used as a recruiting tool for dic's "inner sanctum" sycophants willing to adopt his perversions and peccadilloes in order to sex and drink-it-up with all the "deep believers" who were steeped in the knowledge of grace, mercy, and the most necessary lockbox. When "from birth to the corpse" essays were required, the abuse and manipulation of those writing them was a piece of cake. And, THAT is what dic and his corpse coordinators at every "Root Locale" did with them too! The whole thing was a journey to the dark side of malignant, paranoid, narcissism combined with the sexual perversions of misogynistic moggies, who were lowlife, dumbass, backwoods perverts.Thanjs for reading.

For what it's worth, I saw nothing snarky in Rocky's reply to the original post. Socrates, one thing is for certain from where I sit: The way you responded to Rocky makes me extremely unlikely to reply to anything you post here. Now I'm going to brace myself for a nasty comeback, but boy would I be pleasantly surprised if you prove me wrong.

The general populace of the UK doesn't focus on Advent either, just on a spending splurge, lots of parties and booze, a few carols, and decorating trees. When I lived in a southern hemisphere country, not only is Advent unknown, Christmas is pretty low key too. A great excuse for extended time off work on one's long summer holiday. The places where I worked (in legal offices) often closed for a huge 4 or 5 week holiday from <>23 Dec to end of third week of Jan... or a bit longer. (That's because the courts are usually closed then.) This was a bit of a luxury - other offices and businesses usually only close for a couple or three weeks. That's why it's good to be reminded of what Advent is about, and what "Christmas" is supposed to be about. Not an event that TWI ever considered, or focused on. But it is worth taking the time to slow down, think of things to come, and plan with hope and expectation. Joyful anticipation... excitement... real celebration. Advent has been a part of the Christian "church year" internationally since the fifth century at least - possibly long before. Not just a UK event.

I don't think it was the greatness of the research emanating (or, rather, being copied and redistributed) from New Knoxville. For me, it was the logic of the fundamentalist approach as described (by Bullinger and then distributed) by VPW. The keys to research made sense to me, and the proclamation that, if TWI teaching was found to be inaccurate, it would be changed. There was even a minor change in the teaching about "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" to demonstrate TWI's dedication to research. Of course, when anyone used the keys to show that some TWI doctrine was bunk, he was castigated as unknowledgeable, compared to the Great Vic. I was on the receiving end of THAT discussion, a number of times, before I was finally cast out into the light. George

Do you remember the old phrase “this ___________ (fill in the blank with the product of your choice) practically sells itself” ? It has many useful applications - like a salesman bragging about how good his product is – to a sales manager giving a pep talk to the new recruits of his sales force. If it was that easy – then everyone should succeed at selling it. Like in the old commercial of the guy who is a natural at sales but his selling skills are not needed with this product – all he has to do is mention the name of the car and a customer swoops in and – $ ding $ - sold! I don’t know how many times I’ve been in way-meetings geared to outreach, getting a class together, moving “the word”, witnessing, etc. that more or less said the same thing in any number of clever ways. But one of the differences between selling a name brand car and snake oil (like PFAL, WAP, and any other maximum-amount-of-bull$hit-in-a-minimum-amount-of-time class) is that one is a reliable form of transportation and the other takes you for a ride…or if you prefer the savvy consumer translation: the car actually does work based on a good design of real working parts…whereas snake oil is a fraudulent liniment that does not have snake extract in it; it has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. I’m the farthest thing from ever wanting to be a salesman. I prefer to work with tools and fix stuff. Years ago, I was young…naïve…idealistic…and was actively searching for something – just didn’t know what it was I was looking for…I was checking out eastern religions, ESP, Edgar Cayce – but when I saw “enables you to separate truth from error” (one of the fantastic claims on the back of the green PFAL sign-up card) my heart said “sold!”…My searching was over…pass the syllabus and praise the snake oil mill. I joined The Way International because I believed that all their fantastic claims and promises were true. It’s a funny thing though…I spent 12 years spinning my wheels chasing after elusive pipe dreams – always trying to convince myself and others that all of TWI’s fantastic claims and promises of benefits were for real. I want to add a side note here that sort of relates to how I use to view PFAL. Not too long ago I found a fascinating observation made by author Daniel Klein in “Every Time I find the Meaning of Life, They Change It”, page 3: “But in recent Western philosophy, the how-to-live question has pretty much taken a backseat to the question of epistemology (How can we know what is real and true?) and logic (What are the necessary principles of reason and rational discourse?).” I use to think of PFAL as an all-in-one package…like a one-stop-shop - - I understood it to be something that answered the how-to-live question, how I could know what is real, and it would all be logical and make sense from any angle. it was supposed to solve the how to live more than abundantly question…it was supposed to enable me to separate truth from error …it was supposed to show me how to increase the power of God in my life…it was supposed to bring me to the place that I know that I know that I know… The problem with PFAL, WAP, or whatever classes they push - is that age old problem of snake oil - questionable and unverifiable in quality and benefit ....so promoters have to make a lot of empty promises and claims that the product cannot fulfill...and here's how the scam is perpetuated - we do whatever suckers do when they really buy into the product, by investing more time, money and resources...we don't want to admit we've been duped...no, we're too smart for that...besides our leaders tell us if we would simply believe in the greatness of what's in this class or that class we'd have no problem getting others interested in it...the class would literally sell itself...folks would hear how much we think we're enriched by the class and they'd want to think like that too. yeah that's the ticket - talk it up big! ...so we keep telling ourselves we've got to get our believing up...be positive in our attitude...make sure we're confessing positive things... study the class materials more...keep our minds immersed in it...master it! our hope is in keeping at it so diligently - someday all that effort will payoff...I mean how smart is that? To deny the obvious - that it doesn't work...we're just fooling ourselves...it's also known as self-deception - and I'm sorry to say it but sometimes we can be so good at that. self-deception is the fine art of rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument...so I ask you - how's that more than abundant life working out for you? Is the lifestyle of a way-believer everything they said it was? TWI is lucky there's no lemon law for classes that have no practical value. If you buy a new car and it keeps breaking down most states have lemon laws to protect the consumer - and you can get your money back, get a different car, or whatever the state deems is a fair way to handle it...honestly, where are all the benefits you're supposed to have received from taking the classes? what kind of results have you seen by applying what you've learned in the classes? …Oh, by the way, this post is not about revealing TWI's formula for snake oil. You can read about that in lots of other threads in the About The Way forum. No, these are tips on selling snake oil for all you reluctant sales reps out there (folks still involved with The Way International). Ready for the first tip? You have to convince yourself that the __________ (fill in the blank with your choice of the maximum-amount-of-bull$hit-in-a-minimum-amount-of-time class) sells itself…you have to be sold on the idea that it sells itself. You MUST BELIEVE IN IT. You MUST BELIEVE IT REALLY WORKS. And remember a person convinced against their will just needed more time at the Snake Oil Mill (fyi – it’s in Ohio). Here’s a few more tips on how to sell yourself on the value of snake oil which an unspecified number of people claim actually work – figuratively speaking, of course: Visualize what success will look like – believing images of victory – picture Eve closing the sale of snake oil to the Serpent. Positive affirmations – say it again and again…say it this time like you mean it. Here’s some examples: Be the snake oil; I and my snake oil are one. Oil for one and one for oil. Walk out on your believing…literally…if you don’t believe in snake oil then leave…and don’t come back until you do. Do a word study of “and” while at the same time substituting the words “snake oil” in every occurrence; for example, Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven snake oil the earth.

Yeah thinking some more about Chockfull & Twinky posts - I must say “great” research TWI - “studying” an ancient culture’s economical system as a basis for modern day financial strategy.. I’m not a financial wizard or anything - not crazy about going into debt either - but my wife and I don’t live beyond our means - it’s the way things work in the real world - to buy a home, further your education, start a business - sometimes people need loans. Yeah, this is one bit of TWI’s “research” that I think has a hidden agenda behind it. And I think it’s financial hobbling - it’s my opinion their intent is to keep followers strapped for money to prevent them from straying from their influence. Really it’s a twofold exploitation: 1. send a generous portion of your hard earned money to them AND 2. don’t get tied up in anything that will keep you from putting the ministry first. I once left a job because the boss would not take me off the on-call roster - it was interfering with my responsibilities as a Twig coordinator, don’t cha know! I think if someone can exert a major influence in your decision-making process over money matters - they more or less can determine where you will live, what you will do for work, how far you’ll go career-wise, the quality of your health, how many kids you’ll want to have , where your kids will go to school, etc. Funny...what happened to the “increases prosperity” claim on the back of the green PFAL sign up card? I guess their “research” found some changes were in order.

So to answer that question, one thing that would have to be answered first is "what kind of questions emanating from the flock would be in the category of that requiring "further research"? We have already established that the Way has no personnel in their Research Department as full-time personnel. The Way is not actively pursuing "further research" on their own without any outside impetus that would be in the category of updating or changing anything they taught. Mostly research in the Way is governed by Way Publications, which is Rozilla's baby. They are concerned with what Ralph Waldo Emerson calls "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds", from his essay on Self-Reliance. This means that what is of most interest is that what is put out currently matches what was put out previously especially in key areas of concern. This is primarily driven by who dictates Way strategy in these items, that being legal advice - and most especially Rozilla's relationship with one Louis C0lumb0. That influence on all the lawsuit defenses dictated the strategy that followed. Limit legal exposure by maintaining the same doctrine. Change in longtime doctrine and rules opens legal exposure. So again what question would trigger research? The only one I am aware of in a few decades is that over the topic of debt. That one has had the flock in arms for decades. People have phoned in, written in, researched in, adviced in, and sacrificed their ministry careers in for quite some time over this topic. People have lovingly presented an opposing opinion to the Board of D's straight from scripture and common sense, only to be blackballed, put on probation, dropped, and shunned. You know, all that stuff the new loving ministry doesn't do any more, right? The latest twisted logic on this is that now the Way has two distinctions for fellowship coordinators - one a Household Fellowship Coordinator - the title reserved for someone that they Way considers "out of debt". Then they have the distinction of "Bible Study coordinator" - this one is someone who the way considers "in debt". I guess the logic there is that someone could study the Bible, but not really have "full fellowship" because of this debt consideration. Next, what does the Way consider "in debt"? This gets down into Pharisaical divisions such as whether or not a person has leased a car or purchased a car on a car loan. The former is considered by the Way "out of debt", while the latter is considered "in debt", thus subject to denigrating or less entitled labels, restrictions from certain classes such as the advanced class, and restrictions from leadership programs or outreach programs such as Way Disciples or the Way Corps. A home mortgage is considered "in debt". Thus, none of the field leadership in the Way would be able to purchase a home without the cash to do so up front. Well that's not totally true. They have this thing that's like an "entitlement exception" Apparently if you have some form of a relative who can put your mortgage in their name, then the Way does not consider you "in debt". You know, the Bible teaches against that, but that's irrelevant, right? We're going for that foolish consistency. So - Way signature for success - car LEASE, home LEASE, or mortgage in relative's name. Hey you're traveling light, not tied down to this world, you know, like the Indian guy on the H1 visa who has the mortgage on the house you are renting. Can you paint the walls? Nope. Will he fix the water filter? Sure sure - he'll get to it. But he may change his plans you know, so you might have to move. Long-term stability? Hey Jesus never owned property - he was just thankful and moved where he could when he could. All this so that the Way does not have to change something that they have previously taught on the topic. So my friend I am sorry for such a long answer to a short question. But it kind of gives a little perspective.

The first thing a cult does is convince you EVERYONE else is lying! "OUR WAY" is the only way of truth, justice and the AmeriKKKan way. We are Nietzsche's Ubermensch.......Superman. Suspension of disbelief is what fictional story telling is all about...............peace.

Yes, definitely the modus operandi of the Board of Dolts is to package up some new and improved different class series based on the original series but different enough to try and distance from the bad press of the teachers who came up with the series. Maybe as enough time goes by they hope that people will forget. Then they won't have to whitewash, they hope to present a fresh and clean image to a younger generation that doesn't know anything about the real history of the Way ministry. Then they can just direct the slavelings to "run the class" and everything in life will solve itself. Meanwhile, the dolts can collect statistics on the classes run, and "manage" from above. All while surviving off the $65M from when the Jesus movement brought in income. Nefarious plan. Sounds like a movie that could be entitled "The Long Con".

Here in the U.S., there isn't much focus on Advent. Sure, we still have the Advent calendars. The kids see them as a source for a daily chocolate treat more than something symbolic. Anyway, my hope for the approaching season and new year is that we may enjoy good health and strive to treat each other with respect and good intention. Thanks for the thread, Twinky.

Well then... aren't you the cheerful one today. Are you not familiar with the letter in 1986 signed by JAL, RD, Tom R and Sue P? That was 31 years ago now. Sounds like you don't really know JAL's side of it. Btw, your opening post for this thread was simple and succinct, "So, does anybody know the reason JAL left the vay?" What you didn't say or even allude to was anything suggesting you wouldn't believe his answer if you asked him. He didn't get purged, he left in the first mass exodus. Other than the already recorded history (rather than jumping down my throat, you're free and welcome to search the old threads in the About the Way forum), you actually could ask him yourself.

Yeah......and possibly, with mounting evidence and similar experiences with such men, these women would have been heard and believed. Amazing ain't it?........the lewd acts of sexual harassment when men have authoritative power over women GSC posters have detailed accounts of wierwille walking around naked at a women's way home, groping/raping women in motor coach. ......"Uncle" Harry groping a corps woman's breast and commenting on how firm it was. ......a young WOW Ambassador girl invited to wierwille's motor coach. Then, thrown off WOW field because she refused him. ......sex porn video of two women and a dog shown to the in-residence corps, a "Christian" training program. ......and martindale, proclaiming that vpw told him that sex outside of marriage ministers to these women's needs. ......and Rosalie deposed in a court of law, stating that she KNEW martindale was having sexual relations as early as 1995. ......then martindale, stating that he has "blessed" hundreds of women (via sex) thru the years. Rotten, sexual predation has been coursing thru wierwille's minus-tree since its inception......