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Hey Grease Spotters, I’m just curious if anyone here has taken both PFAL and WAP and wouldn’t mind sharing a brief (or long - I don’t care) analysis of what differences and similarities there are between the two. I left in ‘86 so all I know about is PFAL. ....as an aside - I’m also curious if LCM plagiarized from any sources other than what wierwille used.

Interesting, I'd never read much about this. Didn't realise that the gang was mostly women. In the UK, these women (and the male gang member) would probably have been allowed out on licence long ago. (Parolees are, of course, supervised, and can be recalled at any time and for any - or no - reason.) I'd think, with careful psych treatment, they could have been returned to society and got on with life, at least to some extent. With their cult leader out of the way, they could have resumed "normal" brain function. As for Manson himself, he seems to have been such a degenerate person that no matter where he was, he ought to have been locked up forever - as indeed he was. A horrible start to life, apparently, but did nothing to redeem himself or improve his life chances. What a waste.

As a serial killer and mass murderer, Jack The Ripper is a far more interesting personality disorder than this run-of-the-mill psychopath. Glad he's gone. Sad We The People wasted so many millions of dollars on this lowlife pond scum creep. Sometimes capital punishment just seems sooo right, no?

After thinking about one poster’s recent attempt at revising history...or was it creative writing....I dunno - whatever the he11 you want to call his perspective on PFAL ‘77 - - I thought I’d give it a try and will employ a great technique I learned from the “master “ himself by plagiarizing a little bit from the gospel crucifixion account: It was about the ninth session, and the whole mess was plodding along like it always did - and there was darkness over the whole class like it was in the beginning with audio and Beta tapes. wierwille said to himself “ i am finished - ain’t no way I can pull this off again” ; then he cried in a loud voice “I thirst!” - and immediately one of his assistants refilled his cup with Drambuie. looking down from the double-cross he liked to pull on his adoring fans he said “my peeps, behold thy teacher.” Then one of the ordained who stood guard, shook his head and said to himself “this truly is a waste of time.”

Ditto. I think the good thing about this site John Juedes' has is that he identifies himself. Also, Karl Kahler's book is full of information well documented. Here's my two cents on this topic: I found references to The Way simply by going to public and college libraries and looking through books about cults or new religions, etc. and checking the Index in each book. It is time consuming, but hey, if you want to dig, you gotta get out a shovel and put some elbow grease into it, as my dad used to say ... One example was in a library in Amsterdam! Here's my blog post about finding Melton's book there: http://charleneedge....-library-treat/ Another one is a book from the AAR Studies in Religion 36 volume. The name is: Cults, Culture, and the Law: Perspectives on New Religious Movements. Published by Scholars Press, Chico, CA. 1985. Edited by Thomas Robbins, William C. Shepherd, and James McBride. The Way Int'l is cited on four different pages. A word of caution about using quotes from this site. Most posters here use a fake name, so to outsiders, sometimes that detracts from the veracity of the stories here. In other words, they could be ghost stories. I don't have that attitude because I was in the group and can pretty much tell if something is bogus (but not all the time, I'm sure), but without an insider's knowledge, outsiders would not be able to sniff things out so well. Maybe ... Good luck, Charlene

What style-manual are you using? It would seem you should be able to use material from this site as primary source material, if not as secondary. If you are required to use material from peer reviewed articles, and you are working with a due date, it would probably be best to have a reference librarian help you search something like Academic Search Premier or ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials as soon as possible. I think if I were trying to place TWI within a larger context of history of religion in America, I would try to show it as an offshoot of the practices of the Jesus Movement. It's theology was an idiosyncratic pastiche of Reformed Theology and Dispensationalism with a little bit of Pentacostalism thrown in, but the practices that enabled it to grow were cribbed from the Jesus Movement. Hope this helps! Love, Steve

Will either of these youtubes help?

Too bad you can't use this website, but I think we're too passionate in our prose here.

But that doesn't mean you won't find ANY. The key isn't the level of maturity, it's the level of interest. There's scholastic analyses of Harry Potter and Twilight based on the interest of the public. Anything CAN be studied. The twi phenomena can be studied from perspectives of Psychology, Sociology, cultural Anthropology, Advertising, and so on. Each can add something to the discussion-or all can be used in the analysis.