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It's much more deeply seated than that, Grace. Sis has some psychological problems, and I am the unwitting focus for these. It is absolutely nothing to do with me. She has some sort of anger management issues (I believe) and I am a "safe" focus for these, where she dare not express them to the person(s) concerned. I have sought counselling/reconciliation with the aid of a totally independent minister associate, my Mum's minister, whom I hardly know (my sister would know her much better) - it was a disaster and the minister was shocked at the violence of sis's litany of issues. I believe it is a spiritual issue. I (and others) pray for her, and for the other people caught up in this. It causes much deep hurt within family and friends. But there is nothing to be done until she herself recognises that she has a problem that needs to be addressed in some way. She is a nice caring (but controlling) person to everyone else and if anyone met her outside of any context that involves me, they would probably like her. Meet her in any context that has a connection to me, and they would get the cold shoulder (at best). To bring this back to the context of this thread, she is loved, treated well and kindly, but every effort is turned back. It is rebuffed, and worse, seen as some effort to manipulate her or control her life in some way. It is hard to love someone like that, but I do and nonetheless would do whatever I could to help her and would never do anything to harm her. Did not the Lord seek us out when we were totally unlovable, rejecting, and vile? Does he not welcome us back with open arms and complete forgiveness? Does he not hanker after reconciliation? As soon as we are ready, we are embraced in his love. And that is my deep desire, with my sister - and for all others that are lost in their worlds of hatred, misery, violence, addiction, or whatever their problem is.

What a great movie and what a great scene! Thanks for that clip, Rocky ! I am ashamed to say it reminds me of my former life when I thought I had all the answers and would dole them out with the cold clinical efficiency of a Pez dispenser . That scene from Good Will Hunting resonates with me so much more now than when I first saw it - because it’s like the older, more real-world experiences me talking to the younger know-it-all me that lived in my own little idealistic world. I’m fascinated by how Twinky’s posts kind of gives an illustration of how one situation plays out in real life... sometimes there’s things, situations, relationships, etc. you can’t fix, or may not have all the answers to, or maybe you have to seek help from others...but you’re still involved IN it! You’re invested in it...it’s life in the real world... maybe my 2 cents on this thread about who do you love - is this: I love my family and friends - even when it’s tough - even when we’re acting ugly to each other...nobody needs to tell me I should love them or how to love them...it comes naturally...sometimes love is expressed as forgiveness...how my wife and I might express that after an argument or fight is quite simple really - - one of us will say to the other “thanks for putting up with me”.

As always, forum discussions are flat, at most two-dimensional and VERY imperfect in communicating depth of ideas. Perhaps one step closer to providing some depth, youtube videos can be poignant and might be a tad more effective in getting a point across. Please enjoy this brief clip with a soliloquy by the late Robin Williams. I think it's from the movie Good Will Hunting.

T-Bone, I think your post should be framed, and put on the kitchen table, and read every morning. I too love my family, in good times, and those unbearable times, when I want to cut our family ties. But they have had to put up with my S$$t for years; I am far from being an Angel. I love my family; we drive each others nuts at times, but we are still family. People come and go, but family is forever.

Do you even listen to yourself? Point out what God says? To whom? For what purpose? Are you even capable of self-reflection, self-examination or recognition of why you do any given thing? (Don't answer that out loud, it's a rhetorical question) Can you even recognize the difference between posting it in the context of "This is what God tells me to do. This (giving examples) is how I attempt to fulfill this charge," as opposed to "This is what God tells people (you) to do?" Note, SIX rhetorical questions. Not telling you what the answers should be...

Twinky I appreciate you sharing something so personal...and perhaps it’s something we all can relate to in some degree or another. I think by and large all families have various dysfunctional dynamics going on that’s unique to their “clan”. Guess that comes with the territory (the human condition).

Rocky, I think you are right; she probably won't do those things. But, speaking only for myself; I have had to look deeply into my heart, and I did not like what was there. I was willing to change what was there; not for me, but for God. Rosie may be willing to bulls$$t others, but she can't bulls$$t God. God will one day judge all of us for our actions, in this world. I want to go to God with as clean a slate as Humanly possible.

another thought to add to the passage Rocky brought up In Matthew 18, Jesus Christ tells us there’s a whole lot more to forgiveness than just granting some kind of clemency to those who’ve wronged us - because that will frustrate the reconciliation process - which is the whole point of forgiveness anyway if you think about it. 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector....Matthew 18:15-17 I think even Ephesians 4:26 may be related to this: BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, In other words - use the energy of your anger to work things out between you and someone else - rather than let it build up inside you - like carrying a grudge, growing resentment, etc. In my experience I’ve found that just forgiving someone who has wronged me rather than trying the reconciliation process of Matthew 18 has many times left me feeling frustrated and bitter and the wrongdoer doesn’t have a clue of the harm they have done and probably doesn’t see the need to change their ways.

good point Skyrider and that reminds me of one PFAL ‘77 session when he was going over one of his wooden phrases “things equal to the same thing are equal to each other” - when suddenly “rev” Bob M jumps up in the balcony (we were seated near him) - cups his hands around his mouth megaphone-style and yells “the transitive property of equality”...I can’t remember the reaction of wierwille on stage because I was awe struck - or maybe aghast - that someone in the class would call out while “doctor” was teaching. This goes to show you the students knew the material better than the “teacher” - if you want to call him that...he11, he couldn’t even be a substitute teacher...he would be the last resort if you’re short handed on substitute teachers - so you get the doofus who makes copies in the admin’s office figuring maybe he’ll at least be able to parrot some of the material that he copied and wing it to fill in the rest.