Leaderboard

omg, the extreme paddling of young children and making them work as adults at the camps, worse than TWI's HQ, Emporia, Rome City, and Gunnison combined.

1. Rrobs clearly cares more about lifting himself up (and failing) with what he feels is correct, true, righteous, et cetera (I agree with others in that it's repackaged dogma) versus actually having an intellectual conversation on the proposed social problem. Which, as others have stated, was clearly his failed attempt at disguising other motives with a current topic of the week. 2. As my students stay, don't feed the troll. All he cares about is the attention we are giving him. He is condescending and not a leader or a teacher. He most likely sees himself as both. But no rational person could read his responses and think he is either. 3. Academia does not dismiss the bible, it is the bible that dismisses academia. What does that tell you? So again, I will talk to you (and not at you) when you learn how to have a conversation of give and take. You currently do not. You are ethnocentric to a degree I haven't seen in awhile. Is this part of your corps training or something? 4. He reminds me specifically of this clip from Good Will Hunting. He is the blonde in a ponytail who thinks he knows more than Matt Damon but finds out that he does not. Seriously, watch this clip and tell me it's not a replication of what is happening in rrobs posts.

Grace, a lot of the content of those Birth to Corps papers was used to manipulate the Corps one way or another, and to ascerrtain and exploit vulnerable young women. If someone disclosed an abusive (esp sexually) background - hey presto, VPW knew which buttons to press. No doubt others also used these papers this way, if they'd been granted access. But note these papers were written in the second in-rez year, that is, after some years of mental pressure to conform whilst in rez etc. Papers from beaten down people. Remind me of the fake confessions so vaunted in courts with inadequate judicial systems. Victims are so desperate that they'll sign or agree to anything. There's a whole thread on B to C papers somewhere. To bring this back to topic a little, I'm sure that if any B to C paper had been written in the style of VPW's letters, it wouldn't have been acceptable. His style of alternately expressing disappointment and then haranguing his readers isn't communicative so much as yet a further assault on people's sense of self.

T-Bone........it comes across as a narcissist wanting to gain background knowledge and leverage over others to lord over them [sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, or blackmail/silence those who exited]. Whatever wierwille's motives.......it stems from a pathological need that served him. By 1979, approximately 2,000 corps were grads/family corps/in-residence......plus a couple hundred corps spouse [who would also need to write this "From Birth to Corps" paper. Did he even read them? Why do I get the impression that wierwille skimmed over most all of them and set the "juicy" ones aside?

Being fair and logical, I'd acknowledge that you've acknowledged that you need to support claims and statements, and not just toss them out baldly. In any discussion, that's necessary. However, you didn't fulfill the minimum REASONABLE requirement. You dumped a bunch of verse citations, and said that they cover "the central message." Anyone reasonable would expect the following. [claim made] "This matches Hekekiah 8:42, which says "[verse quoted.] If it's a single verse, people might give you a pass on posting the text of the verse, especially if the meaning of the verse is obvious. If there's anything contestable, they're free to post the verse, point out the problem, and point out that failing to post the verse looks like you were trying to pretend there was a Scriptural basis for a non-Scriptural point, and used an irrelevant verse to conceal that, hoping nobody would check it. (vpw did that quite a bit when text-dumping- just look at his stuff on the manifestations in the Advanced Class, and you'll find a bunch without looking hard.) Even if I might agree with your points, or might match your thinking if I saw their basis, if you just make bald claims, then make bald claims that they have a Scriptural basis, I'm NOT going to take you seriously- and neither would most people. Don't think that's specific to either you, us, or this subject. That's pretty much what you find in MOST of cyberspace- providing it's a place of actual discussions. (Places where people trade insults and places where people just pat each other on the back won't look that way, either one.

Wow, Birth to Corps papers. What if someone wrote that they'd been born into a Christian household, with loving caring parents, normal sibling relationships, average schooling (not too bright, not thick either), played some kind of team sport but only at inter-school level, got a job (or jobs) - okay but not stellar. Went to Sunday school and church, but didn't find it particularly enthralling. Interested in knowing and understanding a bit more. Perhaps you could add in sorrow at a grandparent dying, failed driving test at first attempt but did well second time around. An uneventful life, a well-behaved kid. In other words, not much "ammunition." I wonder what VPW would make of that? Would he send it back, saying Give us the bad stuff you did? Would someone want to embroider their past with indiscretions, make themselves seem naughtier than they were?

Okay......I decided to dig out Mrs. Wierwille's book, [BATS].....and give you the specifics. Page 215.........wierwille's resignation letter Page 219........."A New Headquarters" ........................"While we were preparing to leave the Van Wert pastorate, we had found new housing for our family, as well as for The Way Ministry, at 649 South Washington Street, still in Van Wert. This house was an outstanding example of the Queen Anne style of architecture, with its three-story round tower, fretted windows, elaborate bay windows, and distinctive pillared and balustered front porch. And we had all the room we needed." "Parking space was readily available along one side of the street, as well as in our large backyard. The location and house were perfectly suited to use as our family home, Dr. Wierwille's and Rhoda's offices, and a meeting place for the many Way activities." ......snip......."We moved into this home the week after the final Sunday service at St. Peter's. Dr. Wierwille was now free [emphasis added] from all denominational responsibilities and pressure." "Uncle Harry said, 'The in-depth teaching really got going in 1957 when he [Dr. Wierwille] resigned from the organized church. It wasn't a surprise, but then, really it was. I became vitally interested in his work at that point. I wanted him to succeed in his venture.'" "We began our independent undertaking by having meetings in this Washington Street home on Thursday evenings and late Sunday afternoons. The first Thursday evening fellowship was held on December 19, and the first Sunday meeting, on December 29, 1957." Therefore.........according to the most-detailed accounting of The Way International's beginnings, Mrs. Wierwille documents the timeline AND the exact day and date of their INDEPENDENT UNDERTAKING...............December 19, 1957. So, one last time........twi has not yet arrived at their 60th anniversary. Now.......who wants to "trust" them to do honest research?