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Hi folks, it's been a day or two. Does anyone know where I can read a copy of the Waydale article I wrote called Destruction of Self? Am doing some writing on the subject, and wanted to re-read this article but can no longer find it on this site. Anyhoo, I am happily working in higher education, finished my MSHE a while back at Drexel University. Research Geek is still researching and is still a (lovable) Geek. Kittencup will be at Harvard next May. Mom is still doing well and will see her 92nd birthday on Sunday, celebrated with Kittencup who shares the same birthdate. All send their best. I hope this note finds all of you well and happy! =-^._.^=-

Wierwille's last corps letter in this collection..................Spring 1982 Embedded in the middle is this........ "The 'programming' of the minds of the world has been materialistic idolatry. The world will always make you feel like you have less than you need with the many 'gods' it offers. As the minds of the leadership go, so will go the minds of the people. The temptation: settling into a comfortable job or position and a socially acceptable life-style." "What are you claiming and evidencing in your life? Having food and raiment let us be therewith content; and unalterable commitment to move the Word over the world; a need to lead; a yearning for more laborers for the harvest; the heart of the doulos, Jesus Christ." Well, the reason some of us felt like we had less than we needed.....is because we HAD LESS than we needed. We had no health insurance, no equity, no savings, no IRA-retirement accruement, jumped from menial job in one state to another menial job in another state......we were driving broken-down cars, our marriages were being strained, our kids needed attending, and we didn't know that the next leader's confrontation might just nix 15-20 years of twi-involvement. Another rambling letter dripping with a sanctimonious lecture on "one's commitment to hock his classes." And, "as the minds of the leadership go"........and......"The temptation: settling into a comfortable job or position and a socially acceptable life-style".................MEANING, many of his lieutenants / corps leaders were ABANDONING WIERWILLE AND HIS CULT LIFESTYLE and getting a real job. Gawd........it all seems so surreal, knowing that wierwille had the soft, comfortable chair throughout life and stayed on Van Wert church payroll all during his 6-month India itinerary and until August 1957. And, if he wanted to claim martyrdom of his eye......well, that was his own damn fault. He plowed ahead with intense lighting and refused technical advise. IN MY OPINION.........This thread is in the top 5 of exposing wierwille and his cult tactics. These letters show wierwille's deceptive tactics and shenanigans to keep lock-box secrets in place as his "ministry" was crumbling around him 1976-1982. He uses manipulation to try and get corps to feel guilty that "they are abandoning him and not keeping their vow".......letter after letter, one can see how he uses corps, against their better judgment, to sell his soap. This thread should be pinned.

There is SO much in your post that you claim without either proving or even supporting logically. I agree that this is a discussion fitting for the doctrinal forum, but this IS the Open Forum where anything (except for politics) is allowable. I also suspect that your thread title is misleading, suggesting the topic would be political. To reiterate, my biggest concern (not a matter of whether or not this discussion should be allowed) is that you state several things that you expect the reader to accept at face value just because you say so. That makes your arguments weak and ultimately unsound and invalid. I don't buy them.

Duly noted...so what you’re saying (what you’re admitting to) is that you cannot cite chapter and verse! In other words - you cannot back up...you cannot prove your assertions ( That i referred to in my post) have any biblical basis ! The fact that you cannot leaves me with the conclusion that you are unable to do so. Perhaps you think it’s clever to dodge the questions - as if to indicate to others you intentionally will not cite chapter and verse - but I’m left to assume you’re trying to save face for repackaging old wierwillisms - and now want to avoid any challenges to your unsubstantiated nonsense. By all indications you’ve demonstrated thus far on this thread - you lack both the ability AND willingness to carry on a meaningful and intelligent discussion on a thread that YOU started - and of all things by using the recent horrific tragedy of the Las Vegas mass shooting as a springboard for your drivel. That’s just sick and twisted in my book. Of course, that’s just my opinion. Oh and please respond to my other post where I asked you to provide links to the posts you made on two Christian forums - I want to read exactly what you said and how others responded to it...just want to see how far I’m off base from your “trophy worthy” musings.

Same crap, different decade, imo. rrobs is as bereft of critical thinking and as dense as dictor paul. Same condescending, superiority complex based upon genuine ignorance and lack of ability in any legitimate exegesis of "Da word". There are no "originals", remember? What principles of legitimate textual criticism and peer review did you follow? What are your "credentials" besides simply copying what "everybody else said"? "Just the word", eh? Which version? All you have is versions of 500 year old translations of the 1550 critical Greek text (Stephens) translated into 17th Century English. Copies of copies of copies etc. 80% of all the knowledge available regarding Critical Greek texts, other versions of "Da woid", and MSS documentation and evidence have occurred since 1980! Are you even aware of those FACTS? Seems to me all you're capable of is mindless regurgitation of whatever someone else has said before. You demonstrate the same lack of intellect, personal bias, and "private interpretation" dictor paul demonstrated. Lots of rambling preaching with no substance. Why do you waste your precious time here? Go to those other 2 sites and preach over there. Get your trophies and accolades over there. Here you're just another haughty, uneducated, misled, self-deluded ex-wayfer. Very boring and packed with errors. You may impress the Biblically ignorant, but you don't reach anyone here with your 50 year old bullshit. Same crap, different decade. TTFN.

So…using your own criteria of chapter and verse – let us proceed… ...I’ll just limit it to a few select points since it appears your first post does exhibit such a flagrant disregard for documentation (citing chapter and verse) – which in turn leaves my line of inquiry rather repetitive… == == == == rrobs: The quality of life of a society is ultimately determined by the thoughts that each individual in that society holds in their mind. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion. == == == rrobs: Those thoughts in turn are dependant on the things each individual is told by sources outside of ourselves. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion. == == == rrobs: That is basic to life. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertion. == == == == rrobs: The influence on our thoughts, and therefore our quality of life, by NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, Google News, et.al. is nothing short of grossly underestimated. In fact, it would be fair to say it’s given no estimation whatsoever. But that doesn’t change the fact that 24/7 our minds are assaulted with words and images that definitely tend towards the things that make us full of anxiety, doubt, fear, and a general feeling of helplessness. That makes for a society with a low quality of life. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions (this is referencing the entire above paragraph). == == == == rrobs: To reverse this each individual must change the diet upon which their mind feeds. Man’s philosophy, moral concepts, and their false religions are a poor diet indeed. All that unhealthy food needs to be replaced by healthy food. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions. == == == = rrobs: It is his divine power and his alone that gives us all things that pertain to life and godliness. We can realize that power only by having a knowledge of God. It sure won’t come via the TV, computer screen, or radio. Only God tells us how life should be. If you really want to do something positive to change the course of our world, study the Bible and start believing the things it says instead of believing all you hear on CBS. With a scripture centered change of mind, the quality of your individual life will take a turn for the better. The more individuals that do that, the better life becomes for society as a whole. T-Bone: Please provide chapter and verse for your assertions.

Again, that's not a statement of how you arrived at your conclusion. In fact it's not a statement of anything that YOU arrived at. At least explain YOUR reasoning for taking that particular verse and defaulting to it. All you did was state a default position written by someone else. You gave no explanation.

That's a completely backward understanding of the process of communication. It is the listener/reader who determines whether or not to ask for clarification, not the speaker/writer. Your statement is also fairly characterized as a cop out... and another bogus claim made with ZERO support.

I have heard second or third hand a report that someone in Rosie's presence heard her talk about goals to make HQ "self-sufficient", and not dependent upon field income, because the field people complained too much. She seemed to be going for enough capital to invest where she could kick enough people out of HQ to make it run on investment interest alone. Like exact opposite of giving to help the unfortunate in the world with the truth of Jesus Christ. Sad little declining cult is sad.

Participation trophy? Sarcasm? Redirection? Boredom?

maybe there’s frequent liar miles rewards - - I think he got a lot of mileage out of many of his lies.

5 days later.......wierwille sends ANOTHER corps letter.........January 2, 1982 "My Dear Way Corps: .......<snip>......[2nd paragraph]......"It always hurts when any believer "leaves" the household, YET the Word still says, 'Therefore seeing we have this ministry [we've got it!] , as we have received mercy [God's withholding merited judgment], we faint not.' ' It is ours. We do not deserve it, but we've got it. God committed it to us, so we are responsible to God; therefore, we are obligated to commit ourselves to it. There is a great and final day of reward throughout all eternity on the threshold. When the Corps has a fuller understanding of rewards, they will stay in fellowship. Speaking in tongues is a constant reminder of eternal rewards." ANOTHER corps letter about people leaving twi.......... And.....this little doozie, "When the Corps has a fuller understanding of rewards, they will stay in fellowship." Yeah, wierhole........like YOU were (cough, cough) IN FELLOWSHIP amassing all those eternal rewards.

Maybe this would be a good time to mention how serotonin levels in lobsters relates to where the abstracted concept of god comes from?

rrobs You might find a more receptive audience if you had more to offer than a rehashed version of PFAL 101. We all heard this stuff, over and over, too many times to possibly count. My advise? Read a book or two... get a hobby... volunteer at a local charity...Just do SOMETHING other than trying to make PFAL work. Because, quite frankly, it doesn't.

What I said, rrobs, was this: So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do. You chose to quote a part of my own post. But I quoted you (that's what you repeated) and then I asked you the above question. Do please answer. And DO NOT ascribe to me your take on anything other than the written word. Most Christians use the written word as the basis for getting out there and DOING something for their society. I don't care for fancy phrases. I do care for living the way Jesus Christ has modelled, taught, lived.

"Social gospel"? WTF? Did not Christ spend much of his time "socialising" and thus spreading the gospel? Healing people (how social is that!!)? If "the word" as you define it has no social application - well, I want a better "word." Cos the God I love is passionately interested in people and in their wellbeing. God doesn't live in books but in people. (Sorry to disappoint you.)

This is pretty much an updated repackaging of the challenge VPW put forth in PFAL, along with sprinklings from a half dozen or so various other teachings. ..."Put away all your secular materials for 3 months." (paraphrased a bit) It's just repackaged PFAL dogma. And that's fine, as long as you're willing to subject it to scrutiny in the doctrinal forum.

You can't think of other factors that affect quality of life? (and of a society? how is that measured?) You can't think of other sources of thought? You think reactions to words are completely predictable? This is "you can't go beyond what you are taught" Repackaged.

I am a sociologist/professor/researcher and your argument is definitely "null and void." I know what the peer reviewed research and paradigms say about every major social problem. We can discuss them once you figure out how to construct a valid opinion/argument.

Evidence..........that wierwille's corps leaders were bailing in 1976, 1977, 1978, etc..... All those wierwille-apologists who attend splinter groups OR plaster things on Facebook are cult-sycophants. Wierwille's letters, over and over, were lamenting the reality THAT CORPS LEADERS WERE LEAVING TWI.......year after year. The only reason that this is NOT wide-spread news is wierwille instigated a cover-up......trying to put it in "lockbox territory." How damn convenient!! When wierwille could NO longer contain the hemorrhaging, he resorted to his "corps letters." The last card in his hand was........"woe is me, that my corps leaders are deserting me".........ugh. A con-artist to the end.

It was a time where 'Men in Tights' was doing the seed of the serpent lady, to speak of the top level of the menagerie. You know - athletes of the scarlet letter? I remember when little kids used to watch that flick seeing those 2 grind on each other..... TWIT Family Values folks....

Seriously.....da forehead is one of the most densely self-deluded malignant paranoid narcissists I've ever met in my life. He had the critical thinking skills of a salted slug. He had the personality of a redneck thug, as easily put down as Joe Pesci put down the same in My Cousin Vinny......LOL! The boy was simply a really dopey, Southern Baptist wannabe athlete with a subpar intellect and the personality of a Pamploma bull. He allowed a drunken, malignant paranoid narcissist to frame loy-boy's identity as the bumbling stumbling fumbling jock doofus moggie that he turned out to be. A knuckle-dragging Prince with no redeeming value of any kind....social, intellectual, or spiritual. The dope is an entire package of LOSER. He is a very ill RWCNJ, with a chip on his shoulder the size of Anatacrtica, and twice as cold. He is a self-consumed Shskespearan tragedy in real time. A miserable ghost of a subhuman mutatation. EEWWWWWWWW!

It was a wonderfully exciting time being in rez with that awesome President, Craig, to teach us the ways of a man of God. I learned some amazing things. Like, what a 40 year old man looks like when he's having a serious tantrum. Like, lots of interesting ways to curse other people. Lots of swear-words that were new to me. Like, how pozzest and ungodly were homosexuals. Like, how unworthy I was, and how gracious the tantrum-thrower was in allowing me to stay in rez and learn even more from him. How weak I was in not coping with 20 hr days. How sinful it was to talk to staff members. Like, how unworthy practically all of my in rez Corps was. How gracious he was in allowing us to stay and be guided by him. :evilshades:/>

I left in '86 so I missed all dem fawg years and then the crazed Nazi years under da forehead. From what I heard it was just a smaller freaking zoo. You guys provide an extremely important perspective that many of us here do not. You sound like you were "Junior" corpses in the family corpse at the TWIt Vatican in RC. Man, that must have sucked big time! I've talked to several jcs and the accounts are really awful! Especially the ones where the parents are still in! Thanks for posting your experiences.