Leaderboard

I was born in '78. Legend has it that Mom and Dad met in the Corps and didn't like each other. Then they fell in love - and I came along. I grew up on Way albums - not tapes or CDs - and Rock of Ages. My dad led Twig. The years right before and after the family left were really hard. It took 6 or 7 years for Mom and Dad to go to fellowship again on a regular basis - and then it was to hang out with ex-Wayfers and sing the same songs, say the same prayers. Deja vu. I couldn't hack it for long. I was big into Dale Sides for a few years. It's ten years later, and I am happily Catholic. I like the ritual, the quiet, the softness of my church in the morning light. Going through RCIA was hard; it brought up a lot of memories, and I felt vaguely guilty and like I was doing something wrong. My sister helped me through that. She is Methodist and leads the worship team at her church. Mom and Dad... well, they are still kind of loners, I think. I am, too, when it comes to worship. I found the term "love bombing" when I was doing research on TWI - and now I get why I like to be alone in church and why I go to a big place where talking to others and making friends isn't necessary. Someday I will become more a part of my church's community. For now, hearing the Bible without getting sick to my stomach is enough of a joy for me. Overall, I am blessed. At this moment, I am so happy to be able to talk to you all - people who get it. People who get that TWI years gave us some joyful moments and a lot of pain, too. My husband has a hard time identifying with the stories I tell - and my friends get a little antsy when I bring up TWI. It's hard to feel isolated like that - like I did something wrong by being born into a Way family. My aunts and uncles were in TWI, too. About ten years ago, I was at a Dale Sides event, and someone called out my last name. He recognized me because I look like my dad's family. It was a fun moment. I miss that sense of community at times. For me, that is/was one of the hardest aspects of exiting TWI - the sense of loss of community and family. I named my son Jamie. I sing "Love Child" to my daughter. When I am stressed, I sing "In the Garden". I have the fondest memories of women in long skirts and long hair. Picnics. Just writing this is bringing back the names of my childhood. The faces. The joy of family. I am not sure what I am looking for here at GreaseSpot. Maybe I am not looking for anything. I am just glad to be here.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. I Thessalonians 5:4 I want to give some backstory to fill in the gaps of some of the history of things referred to in some key verses, and some of the upcoming events that have been discussed. The Apostle Paul prophetically speaks of the day of The Return: I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. The backstory of the phrase of the "last trump"...a series of 100 trumpet/horn sounds, or blows, on Rosh Hashanah: From http://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/rosh-hashanah-the-feast-of-trumpets/ "The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment. The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping. The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing." "The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note. – In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed." ---- The meaning of the shofar-blowing of Trumpets: From: http://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/rosh-hashanah-the-feast-of-trumpets/ "3. The Blowing of the Shofar: The blowing of the trumpet is the only actual command in the Hebrew Scriptures as to how this feast is to be observed, but the Bible does not give any reason for it. And where the Bible fails to give a reason, the rabbis felt a need to provide one. a. In the blowing of the Shofar the Talmud gives 10 rabbinic reasons. b. There are also three main purposes for Blowing the Shofar. c. Rabbi Saadiah Gaon (882-942 CE) gives 10 reasons for the blowing of the Shofar, but only one will be mentioned because it is practiced today in rabbinic Judaism. – to introduce the ten days of penitence that comes between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. d. The Three Meanings of the Blowing of the Trumpets: (1) First, it was a symbol of the final regathering of Israel when the Messiah comes. (2) Second, it was a symbol of the resurrection from the dead. (3) Third, on this day (Feast of Trumpets) three different books will be open in Heaven. One is called the Book of Righteousness. Those who were perfectly righteous would have their names inscribed in the Book of Life and they would live another year. The second book is called the Book of the Wicked or the Book of the Dead and those whose names are inscribed in this book would die during the year. Most people are neither totally righteous nor totally wicked, so there is a third book call the Book of the In Between. Those inscribed in the third book are given ten days to repent – the ten days between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. (4) The Trumpet Blasts: The Tekiah – is a long, single blast. It was straight, plain, smooth, continuous note and it is to symbolize the expression of joy and contentment. The Shevarim – is three short blasts. A combination of three broken notes to symbolize weeping. The Truah – Extremely short blasts which are a combination of nine staccato notes in a very quick succession of short trill. This symbolizes trepidation, sorrow and sobbing. The Tekiah Gedolah – Means “the last trump.” This one symbolizes the hope of redemption. It is a very long, final note. – In these one hundred blasts, the first of three categories are combined back and forth until there is a total of 99 sounds. Then comes the 100th, the Tekiah Gedolah, a very long-sustained note – as long as the trumpeter had breath to hold it, and this is known as “the last trump.” That will become very significant when the Messianic Implications of this particular festival are discussed." ---- From: http://promisestoisrael.org/jewish-culture-2/jewish-holidays/rosh-hashanah-the-feast-of-trumpets/ "1. Zicharon Truah: Means “memorial of triumph” or the “shout for joy.” This phrase is found in Leviticus 23:24 and the literal meaning is “a remembrance of blowing.” The phrase shouting for you is found in Job 38:7 where all the sons of God shout for joy. Rabbinic Judaism teaches that God created the heavens and the earth on the Feast of Trumpets so it was on this occasion that the angels shouted for joy." --- It's Interesting that the Hebrew word for trumpets is actually "the blowing of Trumpets". The Hebrew words originally for Feast of Trumpets was Yom Teruah. God used trumpets when giving Moses the Law on Mt Sinai when communicating to the Children of Israel in the desert. Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall you have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. –Leviticus 23:24 ---- From: http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/rosh1.html "The Hebrew word for "trumpets" is not actually found in Leviticus 23:24 the Hebrew "teruah" is translated blowing of trumpets. This is a memorial to commemorate a future start of the Messianic Kingdom with the return of Messiah Yeshua. Since Yom Teruah relates to the seventh new moon it shows the perfection of Yahweh's plan for salvation through Messiah Yeshua. This is also a connection between the torah and Messiah. The blowing of the shofar was the thunder that the children of Israel heard when Moses was given the law on Mt. Sinai. Exodus 20:18-20 And all the people saw the thunder, and the lightning, and the noise of the trumpet (shofar), and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed themselves, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, You speak with us, and we will hear: but don't let Elohim speak with us, or we will die. And Moses said to the people, Fear not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, so that you don't sin. The word "trumpet" in Exodus 20:18 is the Hebrew word "shofar" (Strong's #7782). This loud shofar blast really scared the people so much so that they asked Moses to speak with Yahweh for them. Solomon was inspired to write that the fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. (Proverbs 9:10) Yeshua demonstrated this wisdom throughout his life by giving the glory to Yahweh. We must forsake evil and live like Yeshua! Sin should be the farthest thing from our mind. We are Yeshua's chosen if we live as he teaches." ---- From: https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/evt/jewish-new-year/ (Regarding the day of Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah/modern Jewish New Year/aka Rosh Hashanah in the city of Jerusalem.) "Like many other Jewish festivals, its customs center around the synagogue and home, where large festive meals are prepared for family and friends....On the Jewish new year many hours are spent in synagogues around the city, and the city’s shops close, creating a peaceful and tranquil atmosphere, an obvious contrast to regular days when Jerusalem bustles with activity. Walk down to the Western Wall (Kotel) to see thousands of people congregating for special prayers. You may even get to hear the shofar (ram’s horn) blown, a central part of the prayer services on Rosh Hashanah.... Rosh Hashana 2017 begins the eve (sunset) of Wednesday, September 20 and ends Friday, September 22 after sunset. Check out some of the events around town during and around the holiday…" ----- Explanation of dark moon or hidden moon, where no man knew the day or hour, new moon which starts the 2 day High Holy Day of Rosh Hashanah's period: The Feast of Trumpets-Yom Teruah-Ross Hashana is the only Jewish holiday that starts on the new moon, the 1st day of the lunar month where it is a moon that is not visible, it is also called the dark moon, the hidden moon, the concealed moon, hidden from everyone. The new moon is when it is not seen, the day no one knows the day or hour. From: http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/messages/rosh_hashanah.php "Because everyone was to celebrate the Feast of Trumpets and it always fell on the 1st day of the lunar month, based on the (physical) sighting of the new moon, it was known as the Feast where no one ever “knew the day or the hour” it would come. The Jews in Babylon and elsewhere were to keep it as well but it would take a day to get them the news so it was always kept for 2 days and was known as “one long day ”. It was to be a day symbolically hid from Satan so even he would not be sure of its arrival!" ----- Psalm 81:4 Sound the shofar to mark the new month, time of concealment of our Festival day. The dark moon was and is the marker to start the holiday of The Feast of Trumpets. The moon is concealed or hidden in darkness. This year the new moon starts in Jerusalem at 8:29am on Sept 20th, although the feast of Trumpets is a 2 day event by tradition, mainly because of the difficulty in surety of sighting the new moon, so the official day is Sept 21st. The new moon is a 2 day dark moon as well. Moon phases for this month in Jerusalem are here: https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/israel/jerusalem You can see the 2 day dark moon on this graphic: https://stardate.org/nightsky/moon We have the technology now to pinpoint lunar phases, in Old Testament time, weather providing, they had to physically use their eyes to find out. You can plug in the name of the city and state you live in in the above link to see what date and hour your time zone synchronizes with the new moon in Jerusalem time, for the start of Rosh Hashana is this month. Acts 1:11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." According to the Jewish calendar The Feast of Trumpets begins on the first day of the 7th month, Tishrei, the first day of the lunar cycle, the new moon, the dark hidden moon, which also corresponds to the anniversary of the Jewish date of the creation of Adam and Eve, coincidentally. For more on this subject of the new moon a great article, "Defining the New Moon" is here: http://watchfortheday.org/definingthenewmoon.html ----- Retrograde Jupiter today & Bethlehem Star/Sign of the Woman 2017/Rev 12: From: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens "On November 20, 2016, an astronomical event begins that will last nine and a half months, culminating in startling concurrence with the vision of Revelation 12. While I am not an astronomer, all my research indicates that this astronomical event, in all its particulars, is unique in the history of man. On November 20, 2016, Jupiter (the King planet) enters into the body (womb) of the constellation Virgo (the virgin). Jupiter, due its retrograde motion, will spend the next 9 ½ months within the womb of Virgo. This length of time corresponds with gestation period of a normal late-term baby. After 9 ½ months, Jupiter exits out of the womb of Virgo. Upon Jupiter’s exit (birth), on September 23, 2017, we see the constellation Virgo with the sun rise directly behind it (the woman clothed with the sun). At the feet of Virgo, we find the moon. And upon her head we find a crown of twelve stars, formed by the usual nine stars of the constellation Leo with the addition of the planets Mercury, Venus, and Mars. That is a truly remarkable and, as far as I can determine, unique series of event with a startling degree of concurrence with the vision of Revelation 12".... "So what was the Star of Bethlehem? As mentioned, I think there is a compelling case that the Star of Bethlehem was a series of astronomical events with significant symbolism. More detail can be seen at BethlehemStar.net, but I will attempt a brief summary. In 3/2 B.C., there occurred a rare triple conjunction of Jupiter (the king planet, through its retrograde motion) and Regulus (the king star). The Magi likely interpreted this rare triple conjunction as a giant neon sign in the heavens blinking KING-KING-KING. This all began at the Jewish New year and all within the constellation of Leo (the lion, a symbol of the tribe of Judah). So it heavily symbolized Jewish King from the tribe of Judah, a clear indication for those familiar with the Messiah. Further, rising right behind Leo was the constellation Virgo, with the sun and the moon at her feet. After this incredible triple conjunction, Jupiter began moving westward in the sky, eventually coming into conjunction with Venus, a planet long symbolically associated with motherhood. The conjunction of the king planet and the motherhood planet was so close, that no man alive had ever seen anything like it and together it formed the brightest object in the sky. All this symbolism of a Jewish king from Judah and a Virgin was enough to get the well-versed Magi moving to Jerusalem, but you can understand why the average citizen of Jerusalem missed it. Jupiter continued its western movement in the sky until it finally stopped. When it stopped (as seen from Jerusalem), it stopped directly south, directly over the small village of Bethlehem, on December 25 of 2 B.C. This may be easily seen with modern star programs that can show you the night sky on any date in history from any perspective. It is the advent of such computer programs that now allows us to not only look at the past, but to look at the skies of the future. Given the context of all I just described, it is when we turn our gaze to the heavens of the future that once again we are treated to heavenly signs of great symbolism." The opening verses of Revelation 12. And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. ----- The Jupiter and Venus Conjunctions The planets representing the Messiah-Jupiter/Venus-His Glory-the bright and morning star From: http://watchfortheday.org/thesign.html "While much talk of the final tetrad of 2014-2015 ensued, set at the same time were the remarkable conjunctions of Jupiter and Venus. At first the rarity of these conjunctions was not fully realized. The group of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions that just occurred were in a unique class with the four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions before Christ’s birth. In 9,400 years of Solex data Jupiter-Venus conjunction of June 17, 2 BC was the closest and longest observable conjunction over that entire period. From AD 1900-2100 the closest observable conjunction of Jupiter-Venus was on August 27, 2016. These two groups of four Jupiter-Venus conjunctions in 3-1 BC and AD 2014-2016 both cover the same duration of time and both have two conjunctions each in Leo. With regards to 2014-2016, the nearest set of four conjunctions occurred in 1790-1792 and will occur in 2145-2147. At TheChristmasStar.org, Jim Dodge explains this and argues that out of the 9400 years of Solex data, these two groups are unique and the placement of the 2014-2016 conjunctions is no accident. As we examine them, that should become more obvious." ---- Commentary: Those are the explanative sections above, next are the surmising sections. Who can be sure they know the date? None of us, but so much points to next week. If it's God's time to raise the dead and gather His Church, then we must prepare ourselves mentally and spiritually to present ourselves to Him. From: http://watchfortheday.org/definingthenewmoon.html "September 20–Wednesday: At dawn at Giza there is the alignment of Regulus-Venus at the Christ Angle above the horizon in the east. This is the Sign of the Great Pyyramid. About two hours after this alignment, the moon will reach conjunction. September 21–Thursday: The new moon and Feast of Trumpets according to the observed calendar. This day of the concealed moon looks to be the day of our concealment and hiding. The day of the Harpazo/Rapture of the Church to the throne of God to be one complete ruling body with the Man-Child. This happens before the labor of the Tribulation. September 22–Friday: The Autumn Equinox. The potential first day without the Restrainer. All who were righteous through believing in the work of Jesus Christ are gone and the unrighteous will now be unhindered for forming what they think will be their utopia. September 23–Saturday: The Sabbath of Return. The Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12:1-2 fulfilled in heaven. The woman is pictured in pain to deliver a child. This is a sign for Israel and Israel will now be the torch bearer with the Church body gone. With the disappearance of the righteous on the Feast of Trumpets and this sign, Israel will begin their return to Jesus the Messiah. From this day it is 2,576 days to the Day of Atonement 2024 on October 12th. Counting 2,520 inclusive days from November 19, 2017 will land on October 12, 2024–the Day of Atonement. 2,550 days (1290 days from the mid-point) will come to November 11, 2024 and 2,595 days (1335 days from the mid-point) will come December 26, 2024 and Hanukkah. From September 23rd to what appears to be the beginning of the Tribulation would be 8 weeks. It was also 8 weeks from the end of the “69 weeks” of Daniel on Palm Sunday until the Conception of the Church (thanks to Scott Clarke) on Pentecost Sunday. This is the layout according to this author of the coming week of anticipation. It is understood here that many who espouse the Sign of the Woman in Revelation 12 hold to a different view on how to place the events associated with this sign. The reality is that we all have put the events within a few days of each other. Whatever happens, we will all be paying attention to each of the days and remaining alert. While this author at this time does not see how we can make it past this coming week in September, we must be prepared for whatever may come. Our faith should hold and remain firm in the clear teaching of the Bible and act accordingly. Maranatha!" ---- From: http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens "The Catholic Church explicitly condemns astrology, as it does all forms of divination (CCC 2116). But signs like the Star of Bethlehem are not divination of fates ordered by the stars, but regular astronomy and symbology with the idea that the God of the universe sometimes uses His creation to communicate with man. The bible is replete with instances that make this case. Psalm 19 states: 1 …The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world… — PSALM 19:1-4 Paul directly quotes this Psalm in Romans when making the case that the Jews had knowledge that the Messiah had come. 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they [the Jews] not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.” — ROMANS 10:17-18 Paul is clearly making the case that the Jews had knowledge of the Messiah because the heavens told them so. Obviously Paul is not endorsing astrology, but indicating that God can and does sometimes use the heavens to announce His plans. There is much more that can be said on the differences between astrology and understanding heavenly signs, but suffice it for now to say that looking to the heavens for confirmation and announcement of God’s plans is legitimate within the proper context and application." ---- This is speculation on my part, but I wonder if the imagery of a pregnant woman in travail of birth suddenly, with destruction and no escape, in the verse following, has anything to do with the Sign of the appearing 2 days after the Feast of Trumpets, (given the Jewish 2 day feast of trumps tradition), ushering in the travail the trials of the tribulation period of 7 years of Destruction by the Destroyer, if the Feast is to be the date of the gathering? Coincidental? Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. Perhaps this is the main reason of the linear massing of planets around Virgo-The Virgin-the bride-Israel-as a sign of what's coming to those who are left behind? Does this explain why the occurrence in Revelation 12, an end times book given to John by Christ directly to address and expose end times occurrences specifically, speaks of this constellation of the Woman clothed with the sun with the moon at her feet 12 stars at her head as a sign to Israel, et al, after we're gone? I Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. We see that all these things in the night & pre-dawn skies have been occurring for 9 1/2 months since November 20th, 2016, replete with Star of Bethlehem style retrograde motion of Jupiter in Virgo, all culminating on September23rd this year. Do you still think our God only uses signs in the skies for births? The one in Rev 12 is there for the first and only time in history forming today in the language of Heavenly math and science. Look up at night toward the east, and look at the stars aligning for Giza now one hour before sunrise, I saw them this morning and last nite. Do you still deny God is purposefully doing this? ---- So we see last trump has a special meaning of Jewish tradition and history thru the ages, yet it appears the "Last Trump", the hidden, concealed, no one knows the day or the hour explained makes sense and is not so elusive. Paul indicates it will be incorporated into an event especially for the Church of the One Body-the Gathering of the wild olive branch. An event where the city of Jerusalem shuts down and every Jewish person will be in worship and witness the blowing of horns of shofar. This shows that God set the standard for man according to His seasons and signs. His people, Israel, are still vitally involved with God's plan. We must not forget that we were the ones grafted in and allowed to share with Israel only because they rejected the Christ, but God in His great mercy will regain what was lost, their Heavenly City will come to pass, and so we are entwined with them eternally as they are the tree. The scriptures have prophecied Israel will repent during the tribulation and God will restore Israel. Perhaps the plan is to use the Gathering on this Feast day as a witness to those left behind who are the good olive tree, the Children of Israel, the purpose of the planet and the ages, to whom Christ was sent to. Still think Jewish customs and dates don't apply to us? The history of man on earth has revolved around Israel since the Garden and will continue to do so until His Holy city, Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the new earth, a home for His people. I think the word of the lord was opened, outpoured and given to this generation so we could herald it to all the world before this age ends and also to leave a body of work for those left behind who decide to believe and not succumb to the mark of the beast. It think that maybe the purpose of the astral Sign of the Woman convergence in the skies on Sept 23rd may be a sign to those left behind who will believe, as in the verses about the 5 virgins who thought about filling their lamps with oil but didn't get around to it, and discovered their error too late. For us, the day that everything seems to point to appears to be September 21st, the Feast of Trumpets, the High Holy Day Holiday. One reason why it appears this way to me is the verses by the Apostle Paul who prophetically speaks of the day of The Return: I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ----- From:http://watchfortheday.org/thesign.html "Three days prior to the Sign of the Woman, the heavens align as mapped by the Giza Pyramid Complex. Just before the sun dawns, the star in Orion's Belt that the Great Pyramid represents is exactly at meridian. Also at this moment of time, Regulus, the King Star of Leo is at the Christ Angle above the eastern horizon. What is the Christ Angle? It is the angle of the Great Pyramid’s ascending and descending passageways. That angle applied north of east from the Great Pyramid will bisect Bethlehem. So at dawn September 20, 2017, Regulus is at the Christ Angle, but so is the Morning Star/Venus because it is in conjunction with Regulus. Coincidentally, this occurs the morning before the Feast of Trumpets. This alignment has not been found to repeat in any year through the year 2200, which puts us well beyond a generation from seeing the return of Israel. These signs of September 2017 are not alone. Planetary conjunctions similar to the time before Christ was born also occurred within the past few years and the calculations are stunning. This along with the tetrad of lunar eclipses occurring on the Festivals of the Lord in 2014-2015 produces a time like no other and we are in the middle of it with less than nine months before September 20-23, 2017. The alarms should be sounding in the many churches of the world, but are they hearing them? Are we telling them?" ---- John 3:17-21 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. -- This website has great insightful articles and archives: http://watchfortheday.org/index.html

Hello all, I am a new member, although I did originally sign up a few years back when WayDale was up. I was in college and lost use of the email I signed up with when I graduated. Anyways ... I grew up in the way at Gunnison and HQ (1984-2009ish). I was a child for many of the events and people mentioned on here, so my experience was both different and shared. I recognize the names and remember many of the faces. I still have a lot of loved ones, especially immediate family, who are active and I regularly interact with them and occasionally attend TWI extended events and visit NK a handful of times a year. I'm not in the business of gossiping per se, or spying, or sharing secrets, but I sympathize with those who have been hurt, lost, and separated from others and who have mixed emotional ties to TWI after dedicating so much and losing it all. If I can be if any positive assistance, let me know. I, like all of you, have my own story and experiences and tears and laughs. My family was torn apart at multiple generations and the scars are still there. My heart goes out to all of you and those still involved. I have taken some time reading all the threads and have added some updates for those curious, although many of the threads were very old, I thought it may be of use to someone, especially in the cases of checking on old friends.

Re-purchase class materials, re-take classes....... You mean like.........green class syllabi, then red class syllabi, Someday, their kids and grandkids will take blue class syllabi, then black class syllabi..............

So the latest episode I have watched is the one on "The Bridge". This is basically Scientology's curriculum of studies and classes, designed to progress the inductee up the ladder several levels. Level progress is required to be confirmed by auditing, done with the handheld device designed by L Ron Hubbard along with a kind of "lie detector" training for auditors. Auditing packages are sold at $10k per 25 hours. Progress up the chain of the "Bridge" goes up to a certain level where a person is called "clear". This is the mission of all scientologists - to "clear" the planet. All of this relates to controlling the animal mind and submitting to a stage of expensive audits. Leah's mother spent well over a million dollars in reaching level OT VII - all these levels promise super-natural mind power. Then the last 2 levels expose LRH's weird vision of extraterrestrial inhabitation and ruler in the past that we are all getting past. Then the last level, after your money's all gone, OT VIII - pretty much tells people they are uniquely themselves just as they had arrived into Scientology. (Of course, minus the fleecing, mind control, and all other negative aspects). Also, after LRH dies, now later on later writings are "discovered" facilitating the need to re-define all of the "Bridge" materials, all the way down to the foundational books like Dianetics. Members are subjected to the need to re-purchase class materials, re-take classes, and travel back up the "Bridge" again, but this time the new right way. Questions are asked about progression along the "Bridge" such as each level has to be accompanied with a personal testament to the goal of the level, say "communicate with anybody about anything" is one example. Or "Get to the point where your problems solve themselves". So if a person after completing a level is not able to provide a testament to the benefits of that level to an acceptable degree, they are labeled a "suppressive person" and thus shunned by religion members and family. So, parallels with the Way. Where do I start?

Interesting topic. The present truth was supposed to be whatever teachings revolved around the yearly theme, at least in my time from 96 to 08. After craig was ousted, rosie further centralized what could be taught right down to the fellowship level. She set the yearly theme based on God knows what inclination. Then the way mag n Sunday service teachers were assigned topics and micromanaged at every turn. Fellowship coordinators were required to attend planning meetings to reteach sts and way mag topics. Thus the present truth became whatever was coming from hq, micromanage down to supposedly self governing home fellowships. They even have a way productions song called the present truth. To quote part of the lyrics: "We focus on the teachings of our leadership, holding them fast instead of letting them slip."

Hi Grace !!!! first off, thank you for your service to our country !!!!!! and secondly, welcome. thirdly, thanks for your posts-a-plenty - i love the input and it sure helps the bigger picture fourthly...you have three first names (as if you didn't know)...though it took me awhile to realize that....observation is not my long suit, by the way.

Welcome!! TWI canvased the whole area asking every single person about online posting and whatnot trying to uncover who I was when I first started posting here, so please be very careful with any personal or current information that you post here. Please feel free to send a private message to me or anyone else you feel comfortable with to share that information. That fact alone should be a warning/red flag to someone that things aren't right within that group. Feel free to ask any questions or share anything that you'd like. Everyone here is ready, willing and able to help in any way we can.

Hi StayQuiet. Welcome to the Cafe. It's going to be hard for you to cut ties with TWI because it may mean cutting ties with your parents, depends on how hard-line they are. Take your time, amass information so that you are confident in your decisions. Try and find some good supportive older friends or contacts who are non-Way related (your friends' parents?). As an adult [Mod Edit] you're old enough to go it alone, but "alone" is a lonely place to be with a culty background. You can also private message people here that you think you can trust, or who can help or advise you. When I got out (long ago) it was the wisdom of some people here (whose names I still don't know) that really helped me.

Hi Stay Quiet and welcome to Grease Spot !!!!! As the others have expressed - use wisdom in what you want to reveal about yourself. I think the freedom to think and to choose a course of action is our greatest asset. ..."It's been a wild ride since then with all this new information coming at me"....yeah i can sort of relate to that - i left in '86 during my corps assignment in the field - during the aftermath of the passing of the patriarch my mind was energized with a new awareness and hot on the trail of so many questionable things - it was indeed a wild ride.

Welcome, StayQuiet. You're not necessarily expected to do anything in particular here. The forum "New Members" is for those who would like to introduce themselves. Please consider GSC a safe place for you. Of course, discretion as to the degree to which you reveal any details that might identify you to others outside of GSC is fully understood here.

I was healed of cancer. I did have two surgeries......and then months later it came back....the Dr. said I had a 20% chance of living and encouraged me to admit to hospital and live out my days. God literally healed me via someone over the phone praying for me. I went back to the Dr. and she said, well, (She was a christian)I can't write on your medical record, "Healed", but you and I both know that is exactly what happened. I knew I was healed the minute I was prayed for. God is good.....that was back in 1995 and I've not been bothered with it since.

I DO have a verified healing I can attest to! This past June I was cured of cancer ... just as soon as my surgeon removed the cancerous tumor infested thyroid of mine. Bwhahahaha. Once he cut my throat open and yanked that sucker out, no more cancer ... I was cured!!! Yep, for those curious enough, I do have pics I can share of my throat, taken a few days after the surgery before I was healed up much, showing my cut throat. They aren't bloody or gory, but plainly show where I was sliced open across the entire front of my throat. Sorry, I *had* to post this. It called to me as I read thru the thread and once healings were mentioned. Hehe, I thought of this 'healing' of mine and thought I'd give everyone a smile and hopefully a laugh or two at my expense. While I can laugh about it now, at the time it wasn't fun going thru surgery. Thankfully, I wasn't aware the tumor was there until after the surgery was done and over with, so I didn't have the 'cancer worry' or whatever you'd call it that so many cancer victims must deal with. God was looking out for me I feel. Losing my gallbladder the previous year to infection and then facing yet another major surgery was enough on my plate to deal with mentally. (Pre-surgery sonograms and x-rays never saw the tumor, even though it was big enough they should have.) Pathology actually found the tumor when they received the thyroid and checked it over post surgery, as they do for everyone who has something removed. They notified my surgeon who then informed me when I saw him at a post surgery visit a week or two later. He was as surprised as I was to hear there was a tumor there. We were both under the impression it was just messed up due to my Grave's Disease, but it was even worse than we ever suspected. Anyway, here's a healing story for the thread. *Not* exactly the type of healing meant, but as close as I can come to it. Heh. One thing I'd love to know -- what ever happen to the original poster? Has anyone heard from him over the past couple of years? I wonder what ever happened with him and the girl he was dating. Maybe he'll stop in one day and give us an update, I'd love to know if they are still together or not ......

Sure. I was a bookish introvert who'd been picked on a lot in his old town in New York before moving to a small town in western NC in the 9th grade in 1974. By 9th grade, most small town school cliques are pretty well set, and I was unsure of myself and my social skills, so I mostly stayed by myself. The TWIts saw me eating by myself and reading, and invited me over to join them. Sure, why not? They then invited me to a social meeting and "forgot" to mention the Christianity angle, a right-off-the-bat giveaway even to a 15 year old that they were aware of a potential negative reaction if they were honest about what their group was based on. Kind of like Amway. Now, I was pretty desperate for social interaction - I had problems at home with two older brothers as well, and in such a small town at that time there was nowhere to go and get away. But I had already, as a voracious reader (how my friends describe me) I had already read science writings by Carl Sagan, Arthur C. Clarke, Issac Asimov, and a lot of SF. I knew something about cults and cult behaviors, and about outrageous claims that couldn't be verified. What little I did not know my dad filled in with a lot of strident warnings and some screaming and yelling. TWI members said there were all kinds of miracles that could be done by accepting Christ via the TWI method; they're listed in 2nd Corinthians, yes? But somehow oh somehow, none of them could ever take place where anyone ever observed them, except of course for speaking in tongues and interpreting. Let me point out that any second-string ham actor can speak in tongues and interpret in a fashion indistinguishable from the "real" act of doing so. But the raising people from the dead? People said it had been done, but I never met anyone who had been there when it happened - they'd just HEARD about it. Of course. Typical con-man behavior; pay your money, THEN you see the miracles - maybe. Healing. I never saw one verified illness that the healing verifiably fixed. I even came up with a scientific test - at age 15 - that TWI members refused to rise to the challenge of. A broken arm is pretty hard to fake; it's very easily and definitely diagnosed; it can be verified quickly, cheaply, and easily, beyond mistake, with a simple X-ray photo. Take a person with a broken arm. Set up a room with bright lights and cameras in all four corners and a portable X-ray machine and developer and doctors and trained, skeptical observers looking on, just like real scientists do. Take the first X-ray, develop it, hold it up to the cameras to verify the broken limb. Have the medicos verify the broken arm, the patient's identity, etc. Have the TWI healer do his or her thing, on film, in front of doctors and skeptical observers. Take a second X-ray and let the medicos take another look. If it's the same patient - uninterrupted film will belie any patient switching - and the arm is suddenly healed - a bona fide miracle occurred under circumstances that make it impossible to discount. NOTHING COULD HAVE BEEN MORE VALUABLE TO TWI'S CAUSE THAN SUCH A FILM. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TRIVIAL IN COST AND EFFORT TO MAKE SUCH A FILM TO MY STANDARDS. Yet when the idea was posed to them, they refused, and made lots of mealy, eyes-averted excuses about why miracles don't work that way. ....! All I did was pop their pathetic little balloon of lies. I put them into a corner with their own claims, and they surrendered instead of coming back out swinging. So, while I needed some social contact and outlets, I turned away. A pig is a pig, no matter how much lipstick you slap on it. Subsequent events simply verified my 1976 conclusions. I didn't know about it for many years, until bored-at-work Google searches brought the later evidence in front of my eyes. Dr. Weirwille died of cancer, after teaching that true believers can't get cancer; his own death certificate is online and shows what he died of. TWI's reaction was to lie and said he died of a stroke.I didn't think the Soviet Union was supposed to be TWI's model for news dissemination! The Fog Years; L. Ron Martindale's fascinating scrambled-eggs-on-a-military-cap dictatorship style of management and eventual could-not-be-more-embarrassing-and-destrutive style of downfall; and now Rosalie Rivenbark's (or whatever that scut's name is) sad rule over the empty shell, at 4% of its peak population in 1982 or so - and still dwindling. Dr. Weirwille was basically just a white Father Divine, except with less genuine concern for his flock than Father Divine had. I've even re-established contact with many of the twig i was in. We're friends again now, and several of them said I was right all along.

II struggled with it for most of my life really. I also had issues with other substances and would juggle them or try to come up with the right "chemical cocktail" in order to manage it. I tried about everything I could think of but it always found a way to come around to bite me in the foot. Eventually the problem got so large that it consumed me and my life spun out of control and the legal system intervened. I gave up the fight and surrendered to the fact that I no long live that way and made some serious changes. So far I have made it a little over 6 years and life is good, much better than I had expected and thousands times better than my life was with it. I just couldn't go on like I was and had given up hope that it would be any different, Thank God I got to the place where I had a choice because my options got very limited and my world got really small. It wasn't easy but it was well worth it.

QTBA, many people have posted some great replies here which contain many excellent observations. I'd just like to add that I was the exact situation as you when I joined TWI. I emailed and talked on the phone with The Girl for several months before our first date, and she never mentioned TWI. Our first date was simply fabulous. (For the first time, I understood why the Troubadors of old could write poems about a single kiss for the rest of their lives.) She casually mentioned the "fellowship", and said that I was welcome to attend, but it didn't matter to her whether I did nor not. Later, I often wondered if this was a subtle warning to stay away. She also remarked that I was the first guy she had ever dated without her parents meeting him first. I really liked this girl a lot, and felt that we had a real connection. Everything was fine until she introduced me to her parents. It was immediately clear that they did not approve. As her family and I went on an evening walk, we lagged behind and I asked her if her parents had some sort of problem with us going out. "Yes", she said. "But they will just have to get over it." To make a very long story a wee bit shorter (but not by much, heh) they didn't get over it. She gave me very ambiguous signals for a few months. I know that she had some heated arguments with her parents, and for awhile I hoped that if it came down to a choice between TWI or me, she would choose me. But this was not to be. After I took the Foundational Class, she broke off all contact and showed up at Fellowship with someone else. Her Mom looked at me smugly beyond belief, but her Dad couldn't look me in the eye. I saw that to stay around would just be keeping myself in a bad situation, and I left not long afterward. I do not know if she intentionally tried to "lure" me into TWI. Or if she simply succumbed to massive pressure from her domineering mother and TWI leaders. I really want to believe that she was sincere when we dated, but I will probably never know. I saw her a number of months after I bailed from TWI at a local club, and she walked by without a word. Hopefully others here wiser than I can provide some helpful insight. I wish you the very, very best of luck in your situation.

I was Plotinus on these forums way back when. I participated here shortly after these forums began. I sojourned years later as "Juan Cruz." Juan posted some poems that still make me laugh. "I've Got Curses" is a personal favorite of Juan's. Now I'm back as Pax. I took the PFAL class in the basement of Rye Presbyterian Church in Sept./Oct. of 1971. I was 15. I saw many leaders up close... none were impressive. Some were worse than others. Most of my fellow Groovy Christians of Rye, NY were impressive, and I love them very much. I'm glad that so few are still in bondage to Victor's brand of bad religion. I got out after seven very active, committed years in which I ran classes, went door-to-door (even in Manhattan), and helped organize events. From reading the best and most respected Christian literature, I saw how sadly wrong, misguided, and venal Victor was. A friend in college died as a direct result of Victor's misleadings re: healing and believing. A dear high school friend was sexually abused by Victor. I wax indignant regarding Victor. He hurt people whom I love. I let him waste too many precious years of my walk. He is in the lowest place of my deepest metaphorical inferno. I was born in Endwell and I hope I do. I grew up in Rye, and have lived in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Princeton, Schenectady, and in the NJ suburbs of The Big Apple. Organic gardening, political and environmental activism, reading classics, following NY sports teams, and living happily with my wife (also from Rye and a talented artist), and our two kids (16 & 14) who are unschooled, keeps me grateful. I believe in God. Jesus is the center of my life. The Bible is my story. I take scripture seriously, but not literally. I'm a progressive, social-justice pursuing Christian. I don't believe God breaks the laws of physics/nature. A man named Jesus never walked on water literally, but metaphorically He did and He does. I can't commit to stay here long, or to be a regular poster but I love Pawtucket for making this available. I have enjoyed his personal company on occasion, and I equally enjoy his cyber-hospitality here when the spirit troubles my tukhus into the Greasespot Pool of Siloam.

Hello, Cara The pie was getting a bit stale and the coffee is cold so I thought I would, instead, offer this musical welcome.

I know what you mean about being here for a time, Balanced. I said the same thing about a year ago and I'm still posting. I was afraid of living my life in reaction to TWI instead of, well, just living my life. Invariably, somebody says something I find interesting and helpful and it gives me something to work on. Sometimes someone says something I disagree with and it gives me opportunity to solidify my own beliefs. Whether I live my life "in reaction to" is a choice and it has little to do with my posting on GSC. Welcome.

Hey, if you want to keep your life private, that's fine. I've been here for years, and I keep my personal life private. I just don't like putting the details in cyberspace. So, anyone trying to spy on me online will only find out but so much. Not that I think I'm worth spying on in the first place, but there's a few sick people out there, and at least one HAS thought that, so... No, they weren't ex-twi. Twi never did have an exclusive right to anything that matters. They didn't even have an exclusive right to religious frauds or crazy people.

God's always been there. He's right where He's always been, and He knows exactly what He's doing all the times! No one owns God. God doesn't live where people tell Him to, although some people like to claim him as the household pet.... >grin< People that seek God will always find Him, don't worry, it's not like He's going to abandon you. God gave us freedom of choice, that is very important to Him....... <big grin> ...sometimes we are very good at keeping Him busy with our choices, but he sure does love his kids, and the ones that sure love Him and care deeply about their walk with Him - are what this whole creation thing is all about to Him. ~ fear not ~

dude!........if you're in a "very serious relationship" with some young twi hottie.........and, you've been to twi HQ to hear her daddy "preach da verd" (as our ham-ster would say)................and, you're still wondering what, if anything, you should "look out for" regarding twi's inevitable , unsolicited involvement in your relationship, and your "spiritual future"...........then i suggest you follow sudo's advice and read up around here at the greasespot.............then, if you still have questions to be answered, or, if you decide to pursue your "very serious relationship", engage the services of a non-twi, licensed counselor to do your pre-marriage counselling, and report back the results of those counselling sessions............by that time, if those steps have been taken, you should have all your questions sufficiently answered..............good luck, and..............peace.