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"The present truth" carries the assumption that the person and/or organization stating this to have an understanding of the current times and life's challenges and needs. The Way is about as capable of detecting the "present" as they are choosing dance numbers that connect with the public.

The reason it was horrible is because I was an adolescent who was forced. Forced to utter tongues among adults and peers my age. All publicly. Forced into a "performance". There's no current disbelief in the power of tongues I just don't believe the method of coercion was suitable for adolescents and should come naturally and bit by coercion of any means. You may have been an adult and this may have come naturally but got adolescents it was inappropriate. Judgement and condemnation for not uttering immediately ensued.

Hi my mom joined TWI in 78, she Went WOW as single mom in 79 with me aged 7 and my baby sis aged 5. Albert Lea, MN. '80 returned home to NewIberia LA By the time I was 13 i was forced to take PFAL. Forced to SIT out loud in front of many. (terrible experience). That experience alone ruined me for the whole TWI but it was the only religion I knew. Im 45 now happily attending a non denom evangelical type church. My mom is still a fully functioning member of TWI and honestly she's an extremist on many issues. Ive spent the past 25 years trying to figure out what's crap and what's truth. This ministry really has a grip on my mom. But she seems happy just very self righteous snd honestly drives people away rather than drawing them in. Id livevto reminisce with anyone who also was WOW Ambassador in Albert Lea, MN in 1979. I'm 45 but was 7/8 then so if you were an adult I'd imagine you would be 60+ yrs old by now. Like my mom. She was 28 at the time I believe. Her name was Paula LeBlanc Lambert. Mine is Tessie

Whenever twi had a doctrine or a practice based entirely on a single verse, you can rest assured that the verse said nothing like what they said it said. It was taken out of context, or the awkward King James English could be creatively misunderstood to supposedly support a claim that it didn't support at all. I think it was originally Goey here who pointed out this particular lie. twi taught that the truth CHANGED- that the truth that is current, or "present" is different from the truth that was ("the past") and the truth that will be (the "future.") The problem here, of course is that the awkward King James English can be misunderstood, and the English word "PRESENT" has 3 different meanings, all in general use: 1) the current time (not the past nor the future) 2) the physical location right here (present here, similar to "presence", and people announce they are "present") 3) a gift (receiving presents) The entire doctrine that there is a truth today- a "present truth"- is based ENTIRELY on one verse and is not repeated anywhere else- which should get one suspicious if nothing else. 2 Peter 1:12King James Version (KJV) 12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Does it mean that the truth now is different from the truth of the past or the future? No, it's referring to the truth that is HERE, physically PRESENT. The truth is here! No need to wait for the truth-here it is! It's obvious when you check out other English versions. 2 Peter 1:12American Standard Version (ASV) 12 Wherefore I shall be ready always to put you in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and are established in the truth which is with you. 2 Peter 1:12Good News Translation (GNT) 12 And so I will always remind you of these matters, even though you already know them and are firmly grounded in the truth you have received. 2 Peter 1:12New American Standard Bible (NASB) 12 Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. 2 Peter 1:12New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) 12 Therefore I intend to keep on reminding you of these things, though you know them already and are established in the truth that has come to you. twi doesn't get to "strike and replace" truths and contradict Scripture with a claim that this new "truth"(new lie) is now the "present truth"(present lie) based on this verse-or on anything else for that matter. This won't stop them, because they care more about serving themselves than serving God, and think that an objective truth has no value because it's not something they can control, and can't serve them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/09/05/book-by-hillary-clintons-pastor-will-be-pulled-from-shelves-due-to-extensive-plagiarism/?utm_term=.f86d5e0e7201 I know twi will never followsuit...but for those who say plagiarism doesnt matter....appareantly it does.

I'm wondering if TWI's thinking goes along the lines of situational ethics Philosophy.org on situational ethics Wikipedia on situational ethics

The "present truth" gained steam around 1994......as martindale scoffed at former leaders and twi-musicians and their old-wineskin material. And especially, when the yearly theme [1995/1996] was "The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word"............or something like that. In other words, keep your eyes focused on the here and now! The current times and circumstances demand "present truth" proclamation.....from whence the spirit of God is at work in grand poohbear, martindale. "Present Truth" = Red Syllabi.........WAP series. Martindale got ousted. Rosalie sat in big chair. Twi re-established grand wizardry.....grand mog-status to wierwille and the bedazzled followers continued to be mesmerized by the flames of idle, ....idol-glory.

Evolving self delusion.

It's the renewed mind, again. Cultivate tunnel vision. Disregard other sensory input. Get comfortable with new reality. Learn implicit obedience.

There's a lot to be gained from reading different versions of the Bible. Some come with a different theology attached (translating "it" for "he" to make Jesus = God, for example). There's an abundance of new versions available, some of dubious scholarship. As with any document, never forget to root it in the language of the time it was put together. Language is not once-for-ever; words do change meanings, sometimes very significantly. TWI only used AV [KJV] because they could poach Bullinger's work. You could almost say that Bullinger was the Research Dept for TWI.

72, hello. I am happy to hear that you are out. I don't know your mother, but perhaps she has "issues." I honestly feel for people in TWI; some stay in for various reasons, many of which I will never understand. Many of us here were in TWI for years; I was in from 1978-1988. I had some great times in it, but I also had some times I would rather forget. I love coming to the GSC, because there is much to be gained from reading the posts. Welcome, and I hope you find what you are looking for here.

I have to ask... Emphasis mine... Why? What was so terrible about it?

We have the answers to your toughest questions about the Bible. Guaranteed! Even if we have to make up the answers.

He didn't repent. His apology was perfunctory (hasty and superficial). He regrets getting caught.

Yes – thanks for your quick and informative reply to my questions, Touch of Spice. As far as your experiences with TWI being very different from many of the folks here on Grease Spot – all I can say is from my own little pet theory – concerning one’s TWI experience: usually the more involved / committed one became – the more that individual was exploited. The degree to which a TWI follower was used and abused to a greater extent was commensurate with how much the person was wholeheartedly dedicated to The Way International. No matter what one’s level of commitment and involvement was – it seems a fairly common mindset adopted by many was that doing anything for TWI was the same as doing it for God. And along the same vein of thought anything said in PFAL, in TWI teachings and magazines was considered to be on par with the Holy Bible. Again, I must emphasize this is just my opinion so take it for what it’s worth. To spell this out in practical terms, a person could remain just a member of a Twig Fellowship for years and not experience or hear of any of the awful things you’ve read about on Grease Spot. That’s because of certain "unwritten policies" put in place like the Lockbox as well as certain people in TWI’s chain of command that serve as a buffer to prevent knowledge of things incompatible with a supposedly Christian organization from reaching your average TWI follower. I was in TWI for 12 years, and had just finished 2 years of in-residence way corps training when I left. I left because whatever critical thinking skills I had - that had laid dormant for so long were suddenly charged into use (like an emergency resuscitation or something) by first Chris G reading Passing of A Patriarch, then afterwards leadership vying for power, and a dark and depressing malaise that seemed to swallow up everyone. And when I say that my critical thinking skills were charged into use - it's like a sub-zero cold day - you're outside - your ears are uncovered - someone sneaks up behind you and flicks your earlobe - - damn that hurts !!!! fyi - unraveling all this mess is a very painful experience - you have to deal with shock, denial and a bunch of other "negative" things. But it's worth it in the long run - oh, it's so worth it. the freedom, the ability to think what you want, the rush of reality that splashes in your face! After leaving, I continued to read the Bible, acquired a modest library of books on theology and biblical languages – from which I came to the conclusion that there were lots of issues with PFAL and the doctrine and practices of TWI. Noting your tendency to research, as a fellow Christian I would encourage you to keep up that habit and to always work on sharpening your critical thinking skills. I hope you continue to visit Grease Spot also. I’ve listed some books below – by former TWI followers – that might be of interest to you. Note especially Undertow – the author goes by the name Penworks when posting on Grease Spot – she was in TWI’s research department – and if you’re not afraid of getting your bubble burst on TWI’s “the Word” – you ought to put Undertow on the top of your reading list – it will blow your mind ! Love and peace – may you have many enlightening experiences on your journey T-Bone Undertow Losing the Way The Cult That Snapped

Don't know if you will remember me....I was on about 13 years ago, then not until now. I started out as chinson ... then married Stevelw! .... and kinda dropped off the map. Update: kids are all grown, still very happily married to Stevelw! , got a masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and am now writing my dissertation for a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Working as a mental health therapist and loving life! Wanted to get back to "the spot" cuz so much of my life was made better by the loving people on this site and the support, friendship, and occasional kick in the butt... So...Hello Again (music from the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond swells)

I put this in my "About Me" area -- but figured I'd post it here too. I joined GSC recently ... mostly to learn, but occasionally to contribute. Recently, I've been reading posts going back years. It's amazing how many "light bulbs" have already gone off for me on many levels since reading what I have here already! I've been lurking for a couple of years here -- but only very sporadically. I tried to "join" a few times, but could never get my log-in to work over a period of about a year or more! Only now -- with the new format -- was I able to register and actually get into the site successfully under a screen name and password. (To say I'm a bit slow technology-wise would be a huge understatement.) : ) A brief "bio" ... I was involved in da way from 1977 through about 1992 or so (witnessed to by wows, Jim Baker, Bob Darnell and a gal named Annie in Mt. Vernon, NY in June of '77); went wow twice and graduated 11th Corps; first assignment was Limb Coordinator Brit Lynn's secretary in West Virginia; next year became slave labor for Way Home leader and perv Area Coordinator Alan Licht in Yonkers, NY; extricated self by moving to NYC for new job; occasionally attended "way offshoot" events/fellowships there until about '92 or so, at which point I called it quits on anything having to do with TWI or any of its offshoots. I reached that point of walking away after a rather dramatic (and I think Spirit inspired) moment after a chance meeting on a cross-town bus in NYC -- where I got "witnessed to" by some wide-eyed-with-wonder Church of Christ "disciples" who invited me to their home fellowship on the Upper West Side of Manhattan that night. I had a HUGE "ah-ha" moment when I realized that THEY were ME 15 years earlier, when I was "witnessing" to others with that same wide-eyed zealous wonder! When I got off the bus a few minutes later, I was in deep thought as I walked up the two flights to my little studio apartment in a lovely brownstone a half a block from Central Park. I sat down at my table, opened my Bible to the gospels, and asked Jesus (out loud!) to be the only one I'd ever listen to again. I read only the Gospels and Psalms for the next several months -- asking only that Jesus -- if he were REAL -- would reveal who he was to me. It really was a beautiful epiphany -- in that I figured if this Christianity thing was really true -- than certainly The One who began it all would and could illuminate me. I've never regretted that choice. There were a few years in there when I succumbed to the propaganda that we MUST be in some sort of "congregation" and so I church-shopped for a while (with some hilarious results along the way!) ... but I always came back to the exact place I was on that day in Manhattan when I decided to leave Wayville and get back in touch with the Jesus Who'd shown me who He was years earlier -- when I was just 14 years old! ; ) Thanks for reading this ... I look forward to getting to know some of youz guys here in the days ahead.

"It's Christ in Shoe!"

Certainly, you know as well as I do that numbers are uber secretive. I have no way of knowing exactly how many. Here's what I do know to be true: 1.) The last service I went to, I saw about 80ish people in attendance. The same 80ish I saw each and every time sitting in the same 80ish seats. The aud. was a desolate wasteland filled with nametags. 2.) Many regions/areas continue to condense. There are "out to pasture" assignments that those who have fought in the trenches go to retire. I cannot speak to who are filling the roles of the "retiring" positions, as most are younger but not in my circle(s). 3.) The move to social media platforms (Twitter, digital Way Mags) have been implemented to increase the appearance of size/validity with the younger crowd. You'd have to be desperate to open up yourself to the potential ridicule and onslaught that a malicious few could do on Twitter. For those Boomers out there who need reference- Imagine being able to Google "The Way International" and have GSC come up as the first hit. That would be amazing! Well, Twitter and hashtags allow for the most popular/recent tweets to come up. You # correctly, and those curious about TWI could get whatever is being said by whomever most recently. It takes a desperate brand to open up to that much potential bad advertising. An interesting note, they have stayed off of FB for some bizarre reason. There are about 20 smaller groups (at least) that people have self organized, from singles to prayer groups to larger undertakings. There's even those who feel compelled as if it were their mission to post a thought of the day or mini teaching series. That can't be sanctioned. Why let that spin out of control and open up Twitter? Who's running this????? 4.) Same ole' same ole'. Everything looks/feels the same 10-20 years ago (except artwork. Why so bad?). Formulaic magazine articles, doctrine, overly-scripted and read word-for-word STS, Way Prod... There's small tweaks, but big parts are just stationary. Coasting off of long-term ABS investments and a system that has "worked" for decades. Don't rock the base that is left. And the base that's left likes it just the way it is, apparently. 5.) Huge push towards getting my (the younger) generation to take over. I suspect that has to do with the aging out of the boomers and older leadership. However, those in power still seem to have a reluctance to become more nimble, agile, and change. Go figure. But "GO CORPS!" and "WAY D!!!" ads are everywhere in the mag and onilne. I never did get that. Those who are sold out are going to anyway. 6.) The offspring of Corps are either way into it or way out of it. Very little of our generation can stomach just ho-hum attendance or be lilly poinsettias. Not sure where that comes from, but I don't think our attention span is long enough to put up with something we don't REALLY care enough about. We don't have time for that. Others have left because of the stance on gay marriage or the lack of community giving. They feel churches are a better fit. And they are. 7.) Most field corps have jobs, PERIOD. It doesn't really matter how much $$ comes in to a branch, but from the aging base I would say not much, you have to work. It was explained to me in the late 90's that it was essential to ABS because a portion of the area $$$ went to keep the Corps members in that area full-time ministers and not full time employees. They needed to be spiritually ready all of the time to move for God and the stresses of a job could not allow for that. Many peddle their part-time gigs or pyramid schemes to their followers. I remember finishing a DTA class and then being served a hard-sell on a reverse osmosis water system (with magnets!!!) during refreshments. They wanted me to sign-up right there and brought a laptop to do it. What? The company had lots of magnetic garbage that went counter to the DTA session we just finished. Hypocrite much? 8.) Many rules exist, but state to state, region to region, it can be like the Wild West. You never know what flies where and which rules are important. MI has some CRAZY folks following some 70's style fellowships/limbs and lock-step loyalty. East coast has literally CRAZY folks running things. Parts of OH are everything in between. It's a mess in terms of quality and consistency. There are still good folks (AND good fellowships), but good luck. 9.) I need more bourbon. I'll keep looking through the threads and add where i see appropriate. When I was in it, I was really in it. I think we all were. I really wanted to change the world and help people and thought I was the faithful remnant. These (very small and aging) people do too, and it seems without a younger group, it will just die out with its members. There's a big nest egg there, and there will always be a fight to control however much is there, so I never see it dissolving unless unforeseen liabilities drain the nest egg, but TWI will likely always be around, no matter how small, because of the $$$. *edited for bourbon mistakes

Welcome to GSC.....Collateral Damage Great post....I linked it to thread entitled Cliches, Collaterals, and Claptrap. "I have spiritually sherpa'd a few others out of TWI, and gotten immense satisfaction for helping them think and process, not just bad-mouthing their religion. It's rewarding to truly help people,"..... :eusa_clap:/> .