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Until there's some permanent remedy, you can access the old files from the GSC documents and the RealAudio files. They're archived elsewhere. Here's the menu for the RealAudio files: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030309073639/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/real.html For those of you who need a media player for your computer, I recommend a free program like VLC player (as flexible as exists)(didn't read the files) MPC-HC (media player classic-home cinema, also very flexible) UMPlayer (again, flexible) (didn't read the files) Daum Pot Player (the smallest of the free, flexible players that I know of.) Real Alternative (designed to read Real Media files especially) ================================================== The Lawsuit-Related documents are here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030215213033/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/lawsuit-main.htm ===================================================== Documents FROM twi are here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030216030833/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/way-generated.htm Those of you who need help reading PDFs either need Adobe or SumatraPDF or some other free PDF reader. ======================================================== Corps notes are here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030215212317/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/corpsnotes.html ============================ GSC editorials are here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030215212642/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/editorial.html ================================= Newspaper articles are here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030215214149/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/newspapers.htm ================================= Miscellaneous documents are here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030215214434/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/misc.htm =================================== Recommended reading is here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030216030722/http://www.greasespotcafe.com:80/waydale/main/reading.htm This should be useful until a more direct solution is posted (and handy as a backup for future crashes.)

Thanks, guys. I'm back at work, today. No loss of utilities (except spotty satellite TV), no rain or wind damage, no home flooding. It could have been a LOT worse. My heart goes out to those for whom it WAS. George

The psychology of idolatry.......specifically, wierwille-idolatry. Whether it's Facebook, splinter groups or just simply old "cult friends"...............the adulation/idolatry heaped onto wierwille after all these years is astounding. While they hold up their King James Bible in one hand......they sing from the "Glory Be To Wierwille" Songbook in the other. The stanzas are sung with repetitive gusto ........as splinter groups pass around their horns of plenty. Cha-ching, cha-ching to the money-changers. First and foremost, the Scriptures speak directly and forcefully against excessive reverence to any man.......yet, it matters not to these folk. They ascribe to the Holy Writ......and yet, they don't. Hey, it's fun to cherry-pick your verses and still hold spiritual authority over others, doncha know? Wierwille did it. Why not? The psychology of idolatry is driven by emotions, nostalgia and mystique-reverence of another person or thing.......not reasoning and logic. Who is standing behind the curtains at S.O.W.E.R.S.?...........some old-timers invested in wierwille-idolatry. Who is on the payroll of splinter groups?.............self-appointed opportunists who are "keepers of the flame." Who extols their Facebook "wall" with wierwille propaganda?.................someone with cognitive dissonance. Weeks ago, someone came to GSC and posted the virtues of "all nine all the time." To me, it was surreal......like an early-1980s time capsule. Hearing this advanced class cliché that was phased out and shelved in the archives of twi-lore.......and still, someone clings to it with a reverent embrace......and it was a FALSEHOOD. Psychology, the science dealing with the mind and its mental and emotional processes......and idolatry have hit on an inflection point. It just seems to me that without persistent and logical application to break such emotions and cult nostalgia.......one has little chance of connecting the dots and changing course. But hey...........nobody said that breaking the chains of cults would be easy.

Some enterprising individual at TWI Headquarters…or maybe in an offshoot - should come up with a product that would generate some cash flow while at the same time endearing followers to their favorite cult leaders…like say maybe idol nesting dolls… ...now if it was me designing it – I think wierwille would be the smallest doll (being the patriarch of little pi$$-ant idols that he is - - also in another sense - symbolically - after opening up each doll you would finally get to the "juicy caramel center" - - - the con-man who started it all - the rest were merely derivatives of him...or perhaps a seed...a bad seed...like a seed of a weed...not to be confused with The Wrong Seed - - oh get your head out of PFAL and just buy the d@mn idol nesting dolls !)... ....couldn’t find an appropriate image for idol nesting dolls – so I went with the next best thing:

Based on his PERCEPTION of the Marine Corps.

Twinky, don't make me come over there and pinch you !

Speaking of idols - here's a little ditty about TWI's favorite idol....to the tune of The Carpenter's "close to you" Why do turds suddenly appear Every time wierwille's near Just like pee, they long to be A WASTE of time

I think Waysider has some good suggestions....and I wanted to add a few of my own thoughts about the doctrinal forum in general before I offer an opinion on this particular subject. I think of Grease Spot doctrinal forum as maybe an entry level doctrinal discussion when compared to the many Christian doctrinal discussion boards out there - where one had better be rock solid in their own brand of theology, biblical hermeneutics, and thoroughly familiar with opposing viewpoints....and they still might get "the beating of the week" . ... ...And maybe that's the great thing about Grease Spot - it doesn't matter what your viewpoint is , what credentials or experience you may have - just come here with an inquisitive mind, be honest and courageous enough to once and a while sneak a glimpse outside what bias you may have, and engage the old "brain muscles". And usually Grease Spot is a stimulating and thought-provoking environment - - even when some posters want to adhere to wierwille dogmatics - which for the most part is the bane of critical thinking. Occasionally getting nudged outside our comfort zone can be exciting. == == == == Over the years I have enjoyed studying the book of Revelation (have quite a few commentaries on it - hardback, software, e-Books...and have a few Hugh Ross books too)....i liked InfoAbsorption's post getting into the preterist commentary. I believe there are 4 major views of interpreting Revelation - and I believe they all have merit. On something like this I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket... just in case the world is going to hell in an Easter Basket. I think I might enjoy looking at the topic in bite-size pieces as Waysider put it. For what it's worth I've had a personal experience that kinda relates to this stuff that sort of threw all my dear paradigms into a tizzy. It was after 9/11 happened, I felt like a dark cloud of confusion was spread over my head - even entertained ideas like: the rapture had already happened and I was among those left behind, or the mid-trib folks were right, or there is no God and somehow we're now in the hi-gear-to-annihilation-mode....needless to say I've tempered my viewpoint with some flexibility / adaptability - maybe I'm a little bit of a "philosophical prepper " now to go along with any contingency planning. Regarding this topic, of late I tend to look more at what's going on in the Middle East and also in the rest of the world politically / economically , details of the "third temple" and other stuff in light of scripture alluding to future events like in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 - - and of course Revelation too - but I don't get hung up in trying to decipher all the symbolism - I try to get a feel for the back drop of unfolding events - how things will come into place politically and economically.. ..folks have always played guessing games on who is the antichrist and what is the mark of the beast, how close are we to the return of Christ...I know Jesus said no one but the Father knows the hour...I mean...all that stuff is interesting but I feel some groups so fixate on these things I tend to think they're disconnected with the here and now - like they're punching a clock and can't wait for quitting time.... you know , considering the fact that the STATE of Israel came into existence in 1948 is enough of a sign of the times for me...and thinking about the trend toward globalism, mounting political tensions, terrorism, environmental issues I think it will all eventually come to a head... and if I find myself stuck in the great tribulation I hope I'll be strong enough to help others get through it. Whew! After all that just want to say I tend to look more at these more conspicuous signs rather than astronomical ones where there could be issues with lining up occurrences with various dating systems, feasts, scriptural significance, etc. Of course this is all just my opinion and I could be wrong.

So, Little Johnny hears Uncle Louie share an off-color joke and quickly realizes the whole room is consumed with laughter. He decides to retell the joke, in hopes of receiving the same response as Uncle Louie. Unfortunately, Johnny is much too young to grasp the nuanced ambiguity that fuels the humor and his retelling falls completely flat. That's pretty much how I see what happened with Little Vic when he tried to retell borrowed works that he, himself, didn't understand in the first place

Within the context of the Advanced Class, it was taught that believers could NOT be possessed... and... that they COULD be possessed. Both positions are found in the AC syllabus. I have cited this contradiction in the past. Like so many other things, I think VPW simply did a cut and paste without understanding what he was copying. For that reason, I wouldn't give much credence to whatever you may have heard in TWI.

You can go all the way back to session #1 and see that, by taking John 10:10 out of context, Wierwille was able to severely distort the meaning of the message in a manner that excised Christ.

A) The internet is effectively infinite. Each website is not. The Powers That Be for this one pay for storage and bandwidth. B) The problem is not interested newbies getting a bit verbose. The problem- which was temporary and might return eventually but is not current- is people who show up and make one or 2 posts, book-length, with the obvious attempt to use the GSC as free advertising space for their own ventures. I don't mind the regulars or occasionals saying "Hey, right now I'm working on something, and here's a link." I mind strangers showing up specifically to advertise here at someone else's expense and then leave. We DIDN'T see them post for anything that wasn't their "ads", neither before nor after. A smaller problem was people cutting-and-pasting long posts from elsewhere, not with permission. The expectation-which is probably legally enforcible if the original writer cares- is to post a small excerpt and a link to the whole thing. Much of that wasn't intended to DISCUSS, either. And this is a DISCUSSION board. Since this thread hasn't had to be repeated a lot, it seems that this one notice was enough for most people to refrain from doing it again. I appreciate it when people don't need to be compelled to do the right thing beyond being asked.

Like a skirt? Long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting?

...and twi always played the mind control game. The sad truth is that they have been reduced to a sick little cult that long ago abandoned their mission. Their only interest is to keep their tax exempt business going and living off the assets of the glory years. They remind me of an R. Crumb comic book. Pathetic, twisted and perverse.

Can you spell Fahrenheit 451? Obsolete? 1984? You have sectarian books!!! You are under arrest for having printed material that does not have the approval of the Ministry of Truth

these people really really need to get out more often and get a life somewhere. Sorry for laughing I know its serious to some people but when I see something like this- -I have to wonder just how pathetic someones life can get that they feel compelled to monitor internet posts to throw people out of their little dwindling group. ah yup--its the more abundant life alright

I don't see for such a small, eroding, second rate organization.. why they think it is so important, not to spy on employees, or ex-employees as such, but ex-volunteers? Everything that's needs to be said basically has already been said. There are new faces, new accounts at times, but they only corroborate what people already know.. so what's the big deal? Nothing technically libelous or slanderous has been written.. just personal accounts. And there are no corporate secrets here to be stolen.. nothing worth anything, at least in terms of dollars and cents.. they trashed their own reputation long ago.. I would imagine, the characters who monitor this site, it isn't their "day job" at hq or other places.. they probably have to clean oil spots up in the parking lots from old wowmobiles.. pick up litter cast out of the windows of locals driving by.. and the like, on the way to "work".. only two things make sense to me: either they know of atrocities undreamed of here, and they don't want rosie to get any suprises.. or they just went "funny" in the head.. or both..

JeffSjo...........like so many things, I believe that the waygb has evolved from its initial mission 10 years ago. When P@ul All3n started up Waydale..........the martindale lawsuit was on the horizon and damage control was twi's top priority. Not only martindale, but rivenbark was deposed and stated that she knew of martindale's sexual predation since 1995. Also, there were hundreds of corps tired of the legalism, abuse and spiritual beratings day after day. Another exodus was in the making......of which, 4 or 5 region cooordinator couples exited as well. Waygb was in HIGH GEAR......to squelch the waydale information, to stop the informants, the posters. Those turbulent years, 1999-2003, gave rise to thousands of twi followers to exit their doors. Heck, even the Pan@rell0s --- the supreme trunk supporters for martindale after the infamous "fog years" -- abandoned twi's side. Today??...........imo, the waygb utilize this site daily as a "spiritual cnn network." They find out SO MUCH FROM OUR POSTINGS......that make them appear 'spiritually in-tune' and all. Besides, those security guys....i.e. L1nder....have very little else to do throughout the night while they patrol wierwille road and eat cold pizza......do they?

Hey, WayGB............tell Rosalie that her 'prez skills' are not working. Two long-standing couples have recently left twi claiming that it's spiritually dead.....and were SO TIRED OF TWI CENSORSHIP. One couple has been around since like 1972..............37 years of twi involvement !! And, I've heard that others are questioning "the benefit of twi involvement" as well. Just so you know, waygb...........those "walls of zion" are imprisoning the inhabitants. The freedom in OUT HERE.....and the open forums are OUT HERE........and the fresh air is OUT HERE. For those who've been institutionalized, they might fear this kind of freedom at first.......but I can guarantee that it's WAY BETTER than in "lyin zion."