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Great posts Rocky & Waysider ! Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage: 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight! Isaiah 5: 20, 21 ESV What an insult - to fault the students for the “teacher’s” ineptness (not even considering his gross moral depravity here) . How ridiculous is that?! wierwille was supposedly a "gifted teacher" – president and founder of a biblical research and teaching ministry – but one of the few things he was really adept at was crippling the intellect of devoted followers.

Give it up, Mike. It was a second rate Bible class, not some fountain of truth and wisdom. It was rife with inaccuracies. Most of us were too young to realize that, "inept", as you say. You say we didn't learn much "in depth" from the class. Well, here's what we've learned since the days of our innocence... People were raped, robbed, deprived of career opportunities, psychologically maimed, physically disfigured and even killed as a result of their involvement. Now, you want to say they were "innocently harmed". Instead of feeling pride in your dedication to PFAL you should hang your head in shame for continuing to promote such vile dross .

Ummm... Mike, you are blaming young, inexperienced PFLAP grads for wasting opportunities? How about if Wierwille's ministry had been of God maybe God would have given him guidance on how to help those young people build sound wisdom and insight?

In so many ways.......the WOW "program" was flawed six ways from sunday. It was deemed to be separate and distinct from the local believers....ie communication ran thru the "wow coordinator" and not the regular way-tree setup. Remember......8 hours of "witnessing" a day was in the wow handbook. Who really beat the streets or knocked doors for 8 hours a day? What was minimum wage back in '77? Try working 4-6 hrs/day and take home $20-22 a day ....... and survive "abundantly" [barf] Then..........drive your car all over town to witness. Ugh. Car maintenance/ car repairs / gas expense ALL THE WAR STORIES........being a martyr on the wow field. Buncha crap. When did WIERWILLE ever go witnessing? knock doors? witness 8 hrs a day? Hypocrites and enablers pushing the youth to go knock doors.......

YIKES.......now, you blame all this on "youth" and "ineptness?" Mike, here is what inept looks like...................The filming of pfal........and blunders

The second season has started on A&E.

More like a satyr, wouldn't you say? :o :P

Yeah......he went from "The Teacher" to "The man of God (of the universe)" to "Our father in the Word." Is there a higher title that twi, and splinter groups, have bestowed upon him in death? If wierwille's classes, quotes and one-liners are the CONSTANT SOURCE of reference, solace and strength..... then, in essence, isn't wierwille "Their mediator" of sorts? Sounds like straight-up idolatry to me. Wierwille made blunders in pfal-filming and his handlers cover for him. When others made mistakes, confrontation moved in front-and-center to point out the error for all to see. The double standard hypocrisy was astounding!!

Sorry for the late response (I haven't been here at GS for awhile). I was a wow that year in Bossier City, LA. That was one of the worst years of my life. However, it did set the stage for decisions that I made which led me to where I am today. After my wow year, I had low self esteem, my career and job skills went backwards and I was broke. So, I went back into the Army and got everything back on track, left active duty back in 89 and got a job on Fort Devens (where I was stationed at one time) as a DA Civillian. I still work as a DA Civillian, and I retired from the Army Reserves back in 2000. Currently, I have a girlfriend (Never been in the way) who I have been dating for a few yew years, I have a cat, I get along with my Family, My house should be paid for in 5 years, my 2007 car (that I bought new) is almost paid for and I can do what I want with my free time (If my girlfriend lets me ) In short, my wow year taught me how not to live my life.

And this is leadership training? Is the title of the topic? What is it really? I will start by saying my little son is afraid there are monsters in his closet. Every night before bed we have to check just to make sure. Then an all-powerful night light must be turned on. We all know this powerful weapon can scare any monster, goblin or bogeyman away. His older sibling thinks he is a baby. But this child is convinced that their teacher is on a mission to cause this child to fail. This child thinks the teacher is out to get my child, with extra work and being pushed in class. I sat down with this teacher to find out the deal. Well this child reads 4 grades higher then their present grade and has scored off the charts on all the state testing and this teacher is just pushing and changeling my child. I am ok with that. My point is, in someone’s mind perception is reality. The teacher is not out to get my child just like there are no monsters in the closet. BUT,BUT, if we are talking about perception and reality we were told, taught and beaten down with in the Way, a way corp. person has energized gift ministries. This is the trick and catch. Every a-hole corp. grad is revered as a revelation machine and walking with God. While lowly wayfers need to submit to leadership. No disrespect to the Corp program or grads of days gone past. Now days ALL CORP GRADS ARE ROBTS FOR ROSIE AND THE WAY. God caught the last train to the coast and any revelation is gone from the way. Is being a way corp. grad leadership training? No it just gives you a title to keep the wayfers in line. copenhagen

A corps grad once was talking to me, (AFTER the local leaders had split off from twi), and was telling me about the concept of serving others, charitable works and so on, and expounding on them like this was the first time in his life he'd ever heard of such a thing, and that I'd never heard of them at all. I replied (I was in college at the time) that I had already had several years of experience in a service organization in college, and I'd already put in hundreds of hours of community service if not thousands- adding that if he needed to get some pointers on what works, he could ask me and I'd be glad to fill him in. In other words, the entire time he and the corps were in, the concepts and practice of SERVING OTHERS was foreign, and I learned MUCH more about it in college as extracurricular activities than he did in a paid leadership program. No training in actual leading, no training in serving others. Other than "how to be subservient to twi", did the program ever really cover anything but busy-work, occupying the students' time until they left? The more I think of how deficient and dysfunctional the whole program was, the more impressed I am that anyone came out of it able to help anyone at all, let alone some people surviving with their compassion standing.

Yeah, and you keep saying the whole thing was a waste of time. I mean, look at all these mundane skills you developed. Weren't you taught to keep your underwear drawer straight? That right there is worth the price of admission. I mean, a good leader has to have a neat underwear drawer, right? I bet the Apostle Peter could pull a pair of jockeys out of his drawer without even having to look. Now, as for me, my underwear drawer was fine. I had a 4-year college degree, and I learned how to screw in lightbulbs. I mean all different kinds like 40 watt, 60 watt and on up the line. By the time it was over, I had progressed all the way up to replacing flourescent bulbs. That really is leadership training because with TWI you needed to be adept at screwing over people if you wanted to be an effective leader.

Leadership training? LMAO. As with most things TWI related, it's full of ego, elitism, and lack of substance. What do they study? The WAY classes that they've already taken a dozen times. The STS tapes. And they work. Free slave labor. Oh, but they will tell you how you paying to be there doesn't cover the costs. They just conveniently forget, that even at minimum wage, you do more than earn your keep to cover the costs. Do they have educated people teaching it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA Do they have a curriculum? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Do they have courses? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Do they give out transcripts once you complete? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Here's the curriculum of one of the online degree colleges offerings lately for a Bacelor's Degree in Business Administration, which is kind of like your generic business degree: Core Courses (each course 6 quarter credits unless noted) BUS3004 - Developing a Business Perspective BUS3010 - Fundamentals of Management and Leadership BUS3020 - Fundamentals of E-Business BUS3030 - Fundamentals of Marketing and Sales BUS3040 - Fundamentals of Human Resource Management BUS3050 - Fundamentals of Organizational Communication BUS3060 - Fundamentals of Finance and Accounting Required Specialization Courses BUS4801 - Ethics and Enterprise Specialization Courses (each course 6 quarter credits unless otherwise noted) In addition, choose 42 quarter credits of upper-division Business courses. Elective Courses Choose 39 credits of additional undergraduate courses. Capstone Course (taken during learner's final quarter) BUS4993 - Business Capstone Project - 6 quarter credits So here you have relevant coursework taught by qualified professors that follows a well-mapped education plan. This is for an ONLINE UNIVERSITY - you know - where you can TAKE THE COURSES AT HOME!!!! It's the newest version of the correspondance college - you know, like the one VPW got his PhD from. Except these colleges are much larger, have qualified staff, and a lot more going on. The Way Corps training program? They teach you to be compliant to Rosalie. And the chain of command. That's about it. Not much going on there at all.

Old School - - ya know - - IF they wanted to become a class-A organization they would have taught at least some of the things you suggested. It seems it was easier to lead by throwing your weight around. In the end, IMHO that was the single thing that brought them down. Just magnify "throw your weight around" and extrapolate and you find the source of every single rape...and marriage destruction. I have no doubt that most of those who went corps desires to serve bigger and better than they could otherwise. I really believe this is true. But I think there were some who saw a way to get through life on the backs of others and those are the ones many of us remember just because of the hurt they caused and the bad taste they left in our mouths. There were many very good people who went corps. I know....I met many of them.....but if they had been taught just some of the things on your list, they all would have brought the love of God all over the country.

You know - - - Now that I think about it, I think I do. It's here somewhere around the house (no idea where though). Back to topic - - - - I'd already "done my year" when docvic wanted "4 Grand To Stand". Once was enough for me. I've no clue how many went WOW in 78/ 79 , but we lost quite a few during that year here in Mn. And no, we didn't lose them to the long/ cold winter here either. They left pretty quickly. Perhaps it's to OUR credit, that weren't 4,000 of us willing to be a part of the "4,000" that year. Maybe folks were "smartening up by then"? I don't know. For those of you who DID go that year, it was most likely like my one and only year "on the field". Interesting at best and dismal at worst, and glad to be "done with it" at the end of the year. (edited for spelling)

Based solely on the anecdotal evidence presented on GSC, it had to have been incredibly high.