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FYI - the wooden spoon brigade (parents at Rome City) were the first TWI splinter group - ouch !

Rosie's in it for the money, not the love.... I don't think they would actually try and get people to commint suicide - a dead man tells no tales, but he also doesn't tithe or ABS.

No, she would delegate it. Different psychosis.

Looking back on it all with a little 20/20 hindsight, I'd have to say it's impossible to predict what any of the remaining nut-jobs are capable of doing. People are capable of all sorts of heinous acts that defy rational thinking and logic.

I'd say that someone who would have grown adults sign out to go for a restroom break, or who micromanages every little detail and has to have schedules to know what people are doing has really got mental issues. Control freaks.. Is Rosie one of em.. I'm no psychologist.. And this is only my opinion and not fact, but her actions surely speak pretty loud compared to other control freaks I've know, as they are all paranoid or maybe just plain annoying..

Looking back, the AC was weird that year. Ralph D just left, and I remember hearing people talk about it completely confused why he would leave. After hearing RD's GSC radio interview with him, we wouldn't even be able toimagine what was going on. It should have been a sign to us all. But we didn't know that much, and leadership was told to hide anything about those leaving from the flocks. It was damage control for sure. We couldn't imagine wanting to leave the ministry, but we sure were blinded about it. Even if I had left back then, I'm not sure where my life would be today. I'm not giving any credit to TWI in any means. My credit goes to God who lead me through the learning lessons I needed in my life.

Ah, the mysteries and histories of Christmas! And a most merry one to all! waysider, that's about how I address the seasonal greets myself. Christmas does seem to be a mix of many customs rolled into one to accomodate a diverse group. Possibly then as now, merchants embraced the opportunity to sell some more tunics and sandals. "Move the cards and the pottery from Egypt! 25 % off - red tag 'em, the Spring lines get ordered next month!" Politicians who wanted to keep the peace and what better way than to birth the Prince of Peace - who doesn't love a baby? (well, that one guy) Memorialized forever in quiet slumber surrounded by loving parents, visitors from afar bearing gifts ("...diaper service! You rock! We love you!!!"), shepherds and of course, sheep. Outside and in days to come the world awaits but tonight the stars twinkle, the plants align and for a few hours it's all family, all love and all good. With family and friends, the unexpected but warmly embraced guests, a hot meal, some selected beverages and a good night's sleep and you've got a really nice time.

I've reached the point where I no longer have VPW as a reference point for anything. I am no more interested in disecting his doctrines than I am in the works of L. Ron Hubbard, Mary Baker Eddy or Carlos Santana, with the exception that I might be talked into shelling out money for Santana's work.

She probably closed up shop because his lecherous leer creeped her out.

thanks so much. does one ever really get over it ? i don't know. i'm pretty f'd up but i'm surviving and i'm a decent citizen lol ;)

Exactly. And.....along with the wierwille-doctrine deception, was/is an INNER CIRCLE OF ENABLERS....ie C*mmins, T*wnsend, Martindale, Geer, Rivenbark, etc who ran cover for the con. The wierwille betrayal continues to this very day......in another generation of vipers.

I have come to the conclusion over the years that he was a wolf in sheeps clothing, one masquerading as an angel of light. When the "jesus movement" exploded in the '60s in CA, he went there with the intention of getting a piece of the action. He had a product to sell (the class) and just needed young men to move it for him. He managed through Heefner and Dopp to get a piece of the action. People ask, how can he have been so nasty in his personal life, but seem so wonderful on stage or while teaching? Simple, he stole another man's class (B.G. Leonard), called it his own, learned it and taught it. The class didn't come from his heart, it came from another man's heart. There was no love in VP 's heart for the "people." OH, sure, he liked individuals well enough, and if he thought you had leadership potential, would spend money on you so you could get your teeth fixed (he did that for one leader), or whatever would make you more presentable. I think once he had his leadership in place, the mask slipped a little more. Anyway, he hijacked others' ministries and claimed them for his own. Many people knew. If you didn't agree with him you were shut out, and kicked out - you were silenced. But, it was Geer's Passing of the Patriarch that really opened peoples' eyes - and not in the sense I think CG had in mind. He was another VP idolitor. Instead of throwing our allegience to him, people saw how self-serving that writing and the author really were. People turned away in disgust - it was the straw that broke the camel's back. People now had license to leave - and we did. Yes, I think people felt betrayed. They gave their life, gave up their youth - for what? VP was shown to be just another "man behind the curtain." Especially at the end - a whiny man - blaming everyone but himself for TWI's failings.

My first WOW Family Coordinator contacted me and apologized for his actions during our short tenure together (about 4 months of hell with an alcoholic). He was kicked off the WOW Field and out of the Corpse. He had an alcohol problem. I could tell his apology was because of one of the 12 steps. He didn't care for contact after his apology. Oh well....I had forgiven him long ago. I'm glad he got cleaned up and is living a better life.

At one point, I was under so much pressure and fear from leadership. I would try to live up to their list of demands and it was exhausting. No matter how many people I signed up for the class or brought to twig or cleaned their houses, I was usually pulled aside to be told where I had missed it. I spent all of my time trying to be in the good graces of leadership. I did not take care of myself physically, mentally, emotionally, mentally, spiritually or financially. I was a complete mess. Even so, I was not very proud of myself when I came to the realization about my behavior. I could have had some great friendships with some wonderful believers, but I rejected them in favor of pleasing leadership who really never cared about me. But what was worse, I was really harsh on a couple of people. They were going through some tough times and I basically told them it was because they weren't renewing their minds. I was also suspicious of the "commitment level" of one of them and told leadership this. They in turn confronted her about her commitment level amongst other things, and she was subjected to a face melting in front of several people. That's what she got for comming to me for help. Some friend I was. When I finally saw what I had become, I felt really guilty about it. I apologized prufusely to the first person, and we are still friends to this day. But the other one had moved away from our city (wise move on her part) so I let that be my rational for not contacting her. But the truth was, I was afraid to talk to her. Every now and then I would see her at a ministry event. I would notice her tense up when she saw me comming towards her so I would chicken out and we would exchange phony pleasantries with each other. I still remember her tight smile and the steelness in her voice. Well, a beautiful thing happened. She got healed without any help from me. I saw her one day and she went out of her way to come talk to me. She was so loving and kind towards me. I could tell it was important to her to let me know she was OK and that she loved and forgave me. Then I was healed too. This lovely beautiful woman is the one who fixed it for us when nobody would have blamed her if she resented me forever. I try really hard to get my kids to understand the power of forgiveness, especially now that they tend to get caught up in all the high school dramas that go on in this city. (Too bad it couldn't be a High School Musical, oh well...) I hope one day they will see that even if they have been hurt by someone, that person does not have power over them. They can get healed and be happy even without appropriate acknowledgement from the offender. But I also tell them to be the first to apologize and try to make things right. If I had been a bigger person, this wonderful lady probably could have healed much sooner. I'm thankful she was a better person than I was and for the gift she gave me.

Ah yes, the Nuremburg defense.

Actually, let's look at those topics again... "So, here are the topics I deliberately ignore now that I’ve made my decision based on careful consideration of the facts and the truths: sex scandals, plagiarism, weather reports.... the list goes on," The sex scandals: which prove that he had an ulterior motive in his doctrine on abortion and his teachings on sexuality in general. The plagiarism: which calls into question his integrity as a researcher, and his honesty as a presenter of God's Word. The weather reports, which prove his rampant dishonesty when it comes to matters regarding his calling as a man of God. Yeah, once those are dismissed, it's easy to talk about the covenant between VPW and God.

Part of your problem is how wordy you are. You probably wrote twenty paragraphs to explain why you are not yet talking about what you are going to talk about. Also, you seem to be more arrogant than most of us around here. Your views may not be popular, but people are not going to take you seriously for saying things like, "After weighing more data than most of you, and after having more time to sift through it all than most of you, I feel confident in rejecting your unanimity on all these negative subjects regarding VPW." Also, with regards to your statements about how much you have suffered as a result of your opinion, I think it was your obsession on it that caused the problems. Anyway, I wish my memory was better, because there was another person just like you on this site who I believe was ridiculed off of it recently. You'd do good to not follow in his footsteps. Just because you know some people around here doesn't mean everyone will like you. You seem to need help; your act like you have delusions of being the new MOG and act overdramatic about people disagreeing with you on the internet. I would suggest going out and getting a social life rather than obsessing with TWI nonsense.

Mike, this would be a profound teaching, if The Way mythology were true. Live by the Word, love by the Word, "first master then serve." Had The Way been built upon the Rock, and had the myth been reality, this teaching would have been the lodestone for the next seven generations. The myth of his calling, the myth of his ministry, the myth of his class, the myth of his destiny, were, and are, lies. They were concocted, manufactured, packaged and propagandized across The Way Ministry, which itself was, and still is, a little splinter group. See Mike, whenever Dr. Wierwille taught about service to the believers, it was a kind of code. What he meant, and more importantly, what he expected and got, was service to him. How else do you account for the legions of servants, the court full of courtiers, the gifts and honors and protocols, the erections of monuments, the seasons of heraldry and pageantry of, by, and for a ministry of **supposedly** Christ-centered bible-philes. They were done for a reason, Mike. It was to manufacture a mythology. It worked! Whaddya know! People go for that crap. Look at the Americans fawning over British royalty to this day. We're born suckers Mike. Smell the coffee. You've wasted far too much time already. Don't waste another minute. Know this Mike. You are living the mythtery. The truth will make you free. Or mad, if you believe Huxley. Let's hope not. Free good, mad bad. "You don't really live until you find something worth dying for." - Jesus

Was it Christian Family and Sex? It is well know that Victor was not a good example of purity in a marriage relationship.