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Humans can be such strange animals. The power of WANTING to believe is very strong. IMO, that's an underlying issue with cult susceptibility.

well, you know, they are really only missing one word in that description. that word is "abusive". As in "This book of quotes by Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille and others shares great heart and insight. For many this learning process of a teacher and student grew into so much more; it grew into an abusive father with his foster kids...."

yeah, i think i'd rather read anything else

The telltale signs of a cult are being exposed, once again, on a series of documentary episodes on scientology. Last night, having dvr'd it from an earlier showing.....I watched the hour episode hosted by Leah Remini as ex-scientologists grapple with the repercussions of lies, guilt, betrayal, fraud, spiritual abuse and loss of family connections. The details of the scientology cult seem to be exponentially worse that even that of twi, it seems..........1) "the hole" --- a detention building for dissenters [ 2 years, for some? ], 2) Aggressive, public slander on websites and at person's place of employment, 3) Targeted 24/7 surveillance of top-level exitees, 4) Strong-arm family members in cult to blatantly lie/slander the one who leaves, 5) Required to sign "kidnap contracts".......etc. etc. Yet, many similarities are found in twi..........1) The hallmark of a cult is that one person wields the power, 2) No internal checks and balances, 3) Clawed his way to power in a series of purges, 4) False representation to IRS as a non-profit corp., 5) Fraud and Deception: lying to their followers, 6) Character assassinations, smears, slanders [mostly, clergy & corps who dissent --- and know the inner secrets], 7) WOW Ambassador program was highly exploitive and exclusionary, 8) Brutal confrontations and interrogations, 9) Ex-communication and savage retribution for disobedience, 10) No financial transparency.......etc. etc. 20 Reasons the Church of Scientology is a cult Sure, most of us know about all those purges during the martindale era [specifically, 1989-1996].......but what about wierwille? Wierwille clawed his way to power in a series of purges.............namely, by purging Steve Hefn3r and Jimmy D00p [The Way East and The Way West] from the ranks and consolidating power and centralizing finances. These two leaders were publically discredited so that wierwille could power-grab their movements, their followers. From these "purges"........all the monies pouring into ONE CENTRAL PLACE. This strategic move, alone, was the "nailing of the coffin" that would soon house the death of twi. Wierwille had to "purge these power bases"......because wierwille was a fraud, and stole whenever the opportunity presented itself. A series of purges has major, detrimental repercussions......it frightens the loyalists and strengthens the bullies. The strong of heart, who would confront such error and evil in their midst, are removed by the cult leader, as intended. Thus, the consolidation of power is amassed year after year......and the echo chamber of loyalists is little more than a rubber stamp to the twi-mandates. Wierwille removed any threats to his fledgling ascendency........and bullied his way into power. Whether its a North Korean dictator, a Scientology cult leader, or a twi "man-of-gawd"............the tactics are the same. Add purges.........refute outside information after pfal, stay off internet, avoid family & friends, invent twi-holidays to instill separation, etc The way to power is a series of purges. .

is IMO the notion that the bible doesn't contradict itself. Really?

I'm not really on board with that (or whatever it is that you might be trying to say - I'm not exactly sure.) Because it seems more likely that creative genius (if that's even a reasonably fair or sensible way to speak of it) would find itself more important than whatever was produced or resulted from it. At least, that's what appears to be mostly evidenced in lives today. In a way, yes. Think of it as "what if," if you want... What if Lucifer was second, only to the Lord God, in all creation. (forget any nonsense about being one of three "archangels." there are no others beside him, and there is one - and only one - above him.) But, there came a point where that wasn't enough. And (you probably know this part) ... he abdicates his second place position and reaches for higher. The result? A vacancy at the right hand of God (i.e., second only to God Himself.) You're a smart young guy... what should God to do? Create another perfect being to fill that position? Wait... wasn't the first one created perfect for that position? How is God going to do any better in a "do over"? And, what happens to the first character that failed (aka, the devil)? What if (and to show how utterly foolish the prior morning star was), a rock - a chunk of dirt - (i.e., "man" - aka, Adam) is the nominee. But, there will be a time of proving, after which - if proven worthy, the appointment will be made. well, it's a deep rabbit hole (not much related to this thread) ...and you're already working to fill in the blanks, so... 'nuff said.

There are lots of "lifelines" still dangling out there on face-book. And you know how to make them seem attractive to some people? Put a little tag on them that says "Dr. said".

It's best to start the Indoctrination process at an early age... ....maybe you've heard of another one of wierwille's classics "Goodnight Brain"

Just wanted to revisit this thread.............and say again...... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you, DWBH.......... For the past 18 years......i.e. Waydale/GSC........you have shown impeccable integrity towards spotlighting twit's doctrines of error, their culpability, and vehement resistance to come clean. And, to me, personally.........you've offered support, strength and kindness in every possible way. I have no words but to deeply thank you for it. At every step along the way, you've never divulged my identity or confidences....unless I provided it. IMO.....YOU are "the real deal." You stand head-and-shoulders above any of those listed in your post (below).....OR all the others in that 1985 clergy listing.......and I knew most everyone of them. Some of those men (and women)......like Dr. L0nnell J0hnson and others......exited rather quickly and moved into lives and careers that, if they'd spoken out, it would have been of great detriment to their careers,.....thus, for them, I understand. And, according to my count.....22 of these clergy have deceased. But OTHERS ........would coward away and/or used their positions to further exploit the deception for filth lucre sake and donned the mantle to lord over others. But you, DWBH.......are NOT like them. To me, you are likened unto those who heralded the days that would come.....yielding a rise unto David, a righteous Branch, and a King that would reign in the eternities. You are STILL standing tall.....still in there, giving "jeremiah-esque" warnings like thunderclap.......to the likes of Monsieur de Liar. I commend you far, far greater than my own brother-in-law who, to this day, STILL holds to wierwille-doctrine and has been instrumental for over 20 years in a top-tier role as wierwillite-clergy in a splinter group. May the Lord have mercy on those corps/clergy who have not turned from this wickedness and, thus, have blood on their hands. With most humbled thanks, skyrider

I’ve put that Scientology expose on my watch list/Amazon Fire Stick. After reading several books on Scientology and then Undertow I think I need a little break from cult stuff – maybe I should watch a sci-fi movie like Battlefield Earth to get my mind off of all this . Battlefield Earth Chockfull, you really got me thinking about a few things...Scientology like any cult does have its own jargon – “suppressive, auditing, clear”…but way-world’s special vocabulary often sounded very biblical to me - - it appeared innocuous…maybe that functioned like an additional layer of concealment. Buying into vp’s accuracy-and-integrity-of-the-word-bull-$hit allowed him to write an alternate lexicon in my head. To break free of TWI as well as being mission critical to the revival of your gray matter it is important that you see the shape-shifting (or is that $hit-shaping?) ability of way-jargon. Remember vp’s noble and courageous sounding statement on standing up for the truth “when it comes to the word, I have no friends”…I now understand that to mean “if you don’t agree with my interpretation of the bible you can just take a hike.” I think one of the biggest challenges for a person leaving TWI is getting past the loaded language that reinforces a certain mindset and thwarts critical thinking. Grease Spot is a good antidote – you listen to other viewpoints – and sometimes step back and re-analyze your own perspective – maybe even realize you have a bias or two... or three. And that’s ok – I believe part of developing critical thinking skills is being aware of your own bias.

I've heard variations of this story repeated with people seeking healing from several top TWI members. Loytoy, R@pp, VP, and 1 or 2 others. I'm glad you brought this up. There is a great life disillusionment when you find out the mogfodt ain't. It's less devastating when you see more of their stupidity. But the Way instilled false hopes and visions in people, then blamed them when they were not fulfilled. The only other option would be to openly admit they didn't have the power or abundance to help the person.

So.....with the ONE vivid, eye-witness account of wierwille, I had SEVERAL QUESTIONS: Why didn't wierwille cast out the spirit(s)......if this guy was, indeed, "possessed?" Why would wierwille, twi-president, allow a possessed guy to continue in the corps program? If this was a bogus claim from the head guy, what does that say about his lieutenants? Was this simply the Drambuie talking? If so, how often was this happening? How many other times thru the years has this "possessed-label" been absolutely bogus? What about the other 8 manifestation claims was wierwille NOT able to do? With wierwille's eye removal & cancer......what about ministering healing, as well? Not ONE time, ever, in all my years of twi-tenure did I see wierwille or martindale do the big SIX MANIFESTATIONS. Why? Could it be possible that these guys were fabricating all NINE of them? Were they frauds? .

I agree - I am thankful for folks like Don't Worry, Penworks, and yourself, Skyrider - as well as all the other brave souls who have shared their stories at Grease Spot and in published books! I don't think any single person could have connected all the dots and realize what a crazy evil mess TWI was and still is...because the dots are people (that's right - soylent green is made of dots)....with security mechanisms in place like the lockbox or expecting folks to hid their head in the sand - I mean "renew your mind...the love of god thinketh no evil - so keep your mouth shut and don't go murmuring, gossiping, spreading rumors, hurting the ministry / body of christ"...blah blah blah... to connect the dots - that's the point of Grease Spot and wherever else folks tell the other side of the story

EXACTLY........where are these former twi-leaders? The dearth of these "ex-wayers" to come clean is stunning. Do they STILL agree with wierwille and his doctrines? Are they STILL complicit in the mlm-pyramid to funnel all monies to their splinter groups.....thus, amplifying their own side-ministries-of-pfal-nostalgia? I still have my 1985 Clergy Listing from twi.......and to SEE ALL THE NAMES WHO'VE EXITED is striking!! So many who were in major positions of authority are NOW running their own little group of way-daze followers. Obviously, its their means, for most, of livelihood......having no other skill sets or advanced education. I just thought that there'd be a dozen or more of this group that would have exposed wierwille, his sexual predation and skewed doctrines. Sometimes, I wonder........perhaps, twi has some blackmail material locked away on some of these splinter guys and have threatened them to STAY QUIET. Thankfully, men like you DWBH......have the balls to speak out and dismantle the wierwille mystique and twi's twisted history. I appreciate all you've done thru the years.

I watched the first three episodes also Skyrider. Very compelling. Though specifics, jargon, doctrine, and social structure differ, the psychodynamic of all totalist cults is the same. Simply change names, locations, and intimidation styles, and you can place one cult after another in this series' lineup and the chilling similarities will ring true for all those ever involved in any type of cult. I applaud Lisa for having the balls to do this, and the strength to get former leaders to tell the truth. THAT aspect of her series is totally missing from ex-way leadership IMO. Instead of standing up and exposing the lies, crimes, and misdemeanors committed by wierwille et al, most of these high profile former cult leaders simply ignore them and start their own cults in the name of honest reform and teaching da woid. They are liars, pimps and whores IMO. Where are the following on Greasespot? John Lynn, Gerald Wrenn, Vince Finnegan, Bo Reahard, Walter Cummins, Bruce Mahone, John Crouch, Ken Brown, John Townsend, Ricardo Caballero, Earl Burton, Art Poling, Larry Panarello, Tom and Barbara Kally, Michael Fort, Bill and Marsha Greene, Harvey Platig, Claudettee Royal, Bob Winegarner, Bill Winegarner, Gary Curtis, Randy Anderson, George Hendley, Tom Jenkinson, Bruce Mahone, John Schoenheit, Brian and Alison Heaney, Duke Clarke, Randy Feese, Barry Jones, Tim Bishop, Alan Licht, Dale Sides, Michael Rood, Franklin Smith, Doug Seed, Chuck LaMattina, Charlie Quillen, Doug MacMullan, Paul Metkel, David Turk, Wayne Merrill, Steve Sann, Jerry Carr, Terry Wilson, Bob Lindfelt, Maurice Goulet, Dave Standage, Mosqueda, Lewis Lind, Koetteritz, and on and on and on. There are as many wayfers and ex-way "leadership" with blood on their hands and stolen money in their pickets as there are Scientoligists and Moonies. Looking forward to the day they all come clean and finally tell the truth about TWIt and themselves. Don't hold your breath!

Maybe I should say it in Spanish.

Old Way musicians never die, they just get tuned up.

I think twi should pay us a maintenance fee. Since their website is as interesting as dry toast, and as informative as a bubble-gum wrapper, nobody ever visits it- even current twi members and staff do not visit it. So, the only way they get information and updates on their own website is by visiting the far more interesting GSC- which is to say, US. So, since we provide them with a valuable service, they should pay us. It's the American way!

Who really knows where the many talented people involved with TWI might have gone had they not been interfered with by TWI "management". There were many talented folks ...not only in music, but also in art, writing, etc. "Creativity" or artistic freedom was not possible in TWI and many suffered for it. Personally, in my 4- 5 years involvement in TWI, I thought the majority of the music was rather amateurish and poorly produced compared to more mainstream Christian music. But I'm sure the lyrics and melodies were "accurate according to the word". I never understood the glassy-eyed adoration of Good Seed, Pressed Down, et al. I thought they were mediocre at best. Comparing any of these to the Eagles or Crosby, Stills, Nash is a stretch. I did think that Claudette was exceptionally talented and still wonder how she might have done had it not been for TWI. Her rendition of Precious Lord is still the best I have ever heard.

It was sold to me as the wonder class. It would solve all my problems. I was gullible enough to believe that crap, back then anyway.

I took PFAL because I knew what the Methodists said about God and I knew what the Catholics said about God. I wanted to know what God had to say about Himself.

So, bear with me....I am still trying to figure out the point of the original program and now its clone in SOWERS. People were to "believe" God to get them safely to rock climbing while purposely using a potentially dangerous method of transportation? I am confused. The point was actually to test God's trustworthiness? Sounds like it. If that was the case, why not just take a plane, train, or automobile to their destination....climb that high cliff and throw themselves off? That way they could believe that God would send angels to minister to them. Same thing in a different form. For a biblical research ministry...they sure missed some of the more obvious things in scripture...commands like "You shall not put the Lord your God to a test." Believe God...test God...seems to boil down to the same thing when putting oneself in a dangerous situation just so God can get one out of a dangerous situation. I think there is a difference between presumption about God and actual obedience to God.....the LEAD program sounds like a great deal of presumption.

Life is all about choices. Some people choose to ride the coat-tails of celebrity into the Mississippi sunset. Know what I mean?

They won't plead ignorance as much as they will blame the victim who let the adversary in...

When I see them smiling in those pix, it's like they're saying, "Hey! Look at Me!, I'm slapping common sense in the face!" Better watch yourself, Jr...... Common sense has a limit to how many times it will turn the other cheek.

Thanks for the info taxicab. I'm relieved it's not Donnie but am sorry it has to be anybody. Hearing that voice creeped me out as well. They could have a fine time just hiking in the wilderness, climbing rocks, reading the bible and enjoying each others' company without dragging along the perverted drunken ghost of vp.

I assumed this was from years ago. But given the Smart Car in one of the photos, this must be recent. So they've taken up hitchhiking again? Until another girl gets raped and beaten to the point of death? Again?

This incident, paired with a thread on the value of "Corps Teachings", reminds me of a neat little prank initiated by the late Donnie Fugit. During a Corps night teaching, a fellow partipant sitting next to Donnie fell asleep. After a certain period of time in the middle of the teaching, Donnie elbows the guy in the ribs and whispers loudly in his ear, "Stand! Speak in Tongues, and Interpret!" The poor unsuspecting victim finds himself partially awake and regaining consciousness at the same time he is standing up all alone and loudly speaking in tongues and interpreting right in the middle of Corps night. Now there's some value!!! Only Donnie's mind could twist up into something that perfect in all categories of entertainment value!!!