Leaderboard

Except "Wonder"land it was not. Wander-land, maybe.

I was shocked to stumble across this today...Has anyone else seen this piece of TWI propaganda? Judging from the actors (I remember two of them) I think this was made in the 1980s sometime...in the auditorium.

Thanks for posting the video, Penworks Very weird to watch....I think there ought to be a Grease Spot re-make of that by incorporating WordWolf's Living in Wonderland - - where the story jumps back and forth between what is real and wierwille's delusional version of what took place....kinda like "A Beautiful Mind" but call it " A Deluded Mind" . My suggestion to casting would be to have some egotistical type person with a huge personality and orange hair - play wierwille and KFC's the colonel play uncle harry.

Yes, they do say Paul's letters were "written" by Paul (just as every other book was written down on parchment or vellum or whatever by a man) but the documents, VPW insisted, are exactly what God wanted Paul and the others to write ... God told them what to write. VPW made it very clear his position was that the men were merely the writers BUT God was the author. Which led vpw to say that therefore the Bible is God's Word. That doctrine is throughout every bit of TWI teaching I ever heard. Anyone hear differently? I will never forget VPW shouting, "Either it's God's Word or it isn't!" That doesn't seem to leave any room to disagree in wayworld.

Yes penworks I agree with your logic. In mainstream Christianity this is known as a Fundamentalist viewpoint, regardless of how they label themselves. The most extreme Fundamentalists are the Westboro Baptist Church well known for gay bashing holding signs protesting saying God hates America because of tolerance for homosexuality. There are other viewpoints in mainstream Christianity than extreme fundamentalism. Knowledge still puffs up and love still builds up. We know a gay couple where one is a minister in a small community church. Their congregation accepts them living together and don't care. Their church is growing and has an active drama club that everyone in the community loves and participates in. The minister is also an accomplished musician and they have a great musical contribution to the local community too. I don't think the Bible is the problem. I think people are the problem.

Right, this is not exclusive to TWI, of course. And IMO what is "inspiration" is subjective. I enjoy parts of the Bible as wisdom literature, but have many questions about a lot of other parts. There is much history of the canon that's available and interests me, but no, I no longer hold to Christianity's view that the canon we see in the KJV is the Word of God in the way TWI means it. It's been a long journey for me to reach this point ... just my personal take on the situation, not meant for everyone for sure. My point here was that anti-gay teachings are what we should not be surprised to hear coming from folks who take the Bible as the literal Word of God. What else could they really say and stay true to their belief about Scripture?

There's no getting around it. This doctrine that gay is not okay is the ONLY stance TWI can take on the topic because they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD. They hold to the idea that if the Bible says something, then you can't debate it. Period. TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul! TWI does not believe that any other verses they quote to "prove" homosexuality is "of the devil" were written by men who held those views, by men who lived in a culture that promoted those ideas, that lived thousands of years ago. TWI believes GOD told men what to write down and whatever of those writings made their way into the documents that make up what we call THE BIBLE are exactly what GOD says about everything. This is all in the PFAL class and hasn't changed to this day, as far as I know. Right? Have you checked their most recent websites? I'm preaching to the crowd here. But I don't think we can gloss over the fact that these problems (like hateful speech against gays, etc.) stem from believing that the Bible is God's Word. Remember VPW's old saying, "If God says it. That settles it!"

Also, the "family / household" distinction caused a major uproar in the research department in the 1980s. There is no substantiation in the Bible for how VPW taught it. This terrible uproar is described in my book. Anyhow, "household" was VPW's divisive word to label faithful Wayfers who obeyed him and stuck with the program. His program.

Mama called the doctor, and the doctor said, no more monkeys jumping off the bed!!

I actually remember seeing this live and in color and I think it was sometime in the very late 1980's or very early 1990's. I only watched the first couple of minutes, but trust me, it was just as boring in the original!

Here is my own version of Way history. In 1916, a grifter was born to pig farmers in rural Ohio. For years, he practiced at perfecting his grifting skills until, years later, he stumbled upon a multilevel marketing business model. Using his polished oratory skills, a penchant for plagiarism and a thin veneer of Biblical references to lend credibility, he hawked his wares to the hapless masses, living high on a hog of another sort until, one day, he croaked. The end p.s. He was mad as a hatter.

Here's another silly little tidbit: The Wierwille "character" says that, when the denominations find out about his pamphlet, "they'll be mad as hatters", implying they would be angry. In fact, the expression has nothing to do with anger. It's an expression used to imply insanity. For a ministry that dragged on for hours about the meaning of "if", they seem to have neglected to do their homework on this one.

I watched the first few minutes of the clip (sorry, can't bring myself to watch all 17 minutes of that garbage after wasting all those years with these dorks) and it sure seems to be another layer of programming with the aim of reinforcing the facade that victor paul wierwille created for himself. To me it seems to have a creepy "Leave it to Beaver" vibe. One thing seems common with all the VPW propaganda I have seen over the years. They portray him as the "prophet in the wilderness," standing against a corrupt world. And then one manages to peel back the facade and all that is left is a loud mouthed bully who was a sexual predator. Sometimes I'm sick with the time lost to that organization and thank God I got out.

Why don't they leave? Basically, it boils down to one thing: FEAR 1) Fear of what's outside the ministry after many years of indoctrination on how the world outside TWI is bad. 2) Fear of starting from scratch after many years spent and invested in the ministry. 3) Fear of having the family split apart. 4) Fear of losing friends in the ministry by being M&A. Infinite fears. It's ironic that while the ministry teaches against fear, it is the one that is instilling it on everyone. Me, I left and escaped on my own despite having the fear from all these talks of losing protection from God when leaving the ministry, I didn't f***ing care by then: I felt that I just rather be free in the wilderness than being confined and enslaved in the ministry and I didn't bloody care if I was going to be M&A'd by leaving the ministry: they are not friends if they do that crap.

Interesting topic Some...especially those who are / have been on staff, for DECADES just don't want to take a stand and declare independence. They've become mentally comfortable with the systems and chains. As a matter of fact, those systems they've made homes in, and the chains are no more than decorations and jewelery. They see the wrong, yet to keep the status quo, they rationalize. For example, the Mooneyhands were mentioned. Where would they go? What would they do? Where would they find elevated positions that they are used to? And if they were to depart, would their son? Would he reject them as 'copouts?' Some...may still 'believe' they're in the only organization that God regards. To them, there is nothing else. And they'll go down with the ship. Sincere and admirable...but IMO, wrong and misguided. Once, I was also a full-time Corps/employee of TWI. When they were in cost cutting measures, and many in the Corps had to get jobs, I remember talking with others who were also in paid positions. My Region coordinator admitted, he was terrified at the idea, since neither he or his wife had college, much meaningful work experience or skills, and now had two young kids. They felt they had to tow the line. And their job was to convince all others (believers, Corps, twig coordinators, etc.) that TWI was the genuine thing....even if they had serious doubts. My wife and I saw that, and actually went the other direction. We requested volunteer positions, against the wishes of all our leadership. Once we got off the dole, we refused to live in the same status quo fear and bondagethat so many others secretly lived in (although we discussed among ourselves) and eventually were led to declare our own independence. Free to live, love, and serve our Father! Now we love life, (own a beautiful home, and a prosperous business) and see things very differently. So, from a leadership standpoint, many do not leave because they feel trapped, and are afraid (financial, lack of position / prestige, family members still in TWI, etc.) Hope this offers a little perspective regarding some still there.

I don't really care what they look like. The heart of the issue is what they represent. (And, that ain't pretty.)

Angelique was downright scary.Rosie?Well 60 million will buy alot of respect.

Yeah.....I took a direct assault from two Region Coordinators with Martindale calling the shots from afar. When my wife and I refused to cowtow to their demands, they M&A us and rushed to our city for damage control. The next corps meeting, Martindale went on a rant to destroy our good reputation....of which, months later, many corps told us that they didn't believe those lies for one second. After Martindale was ousted in 2000, we received more phone calls from others who were exiting. It definitely was a tough few months to get our bearings and move forward, but when Waydale surfaced.....it was a Godsend. Thanks to all who've encouraged us thru the years.

They don't leave because the word is at steak and they want some peas. Oops, sorry, wrong thread... LOL