Leaderboard

There's no getting around it. This doctrine that gay is not okay is the ONLY stance TWI can take on the topic because they believe that the verses they quote are GOD'S WORD. They hold to the idea that if the Bible says something, then you can't debate it. Period. TWI does not acknowledge the fact that St. Paul's letters were written by guess who ... Paul! TWI does not believe that any other verses they quote to "prove" homosexuality is "of the devil" were written by men who held those views, by men who lived in a culture that promoted those ideas, that lived thousands of years ago. TWI believes GOD told men what to write down and whatever of those writings made their way into the documents that make up what we call THE BIBLE are exactly what GOD says about everything. This is all in the PFAL class and hasn't changed to this day, as far as I know. Right? Have you checked their most recent websites? I'm preaching to the crowd here. But I don't think we can gloss over the fact that these problems (like hateful speech against gays, etc.) stem from believing that the Bible is God's Word. Remember VPW's old saying, "If God says it. That settles it!"

Yes, they do say Paul's letters were "written" by Paul (just as every other book was written down on parchment or vellum or whatever by a man) but the documents, VPW insisted, are exactly what God wanted Paul and the others to write ... God told them what to write. VPW made it very clear his position was that the men were merely the writers BUT God was the author. Which led vpw to say that therefore the Bible is God's Word. That doctrine is throughout every bit of TWI teaching I ever heard. Anyone hear differently? I will never forget VPW shouting, "Either it's God's Word or it isn't!" That doesn't seem to leave any room to disagree in wayworld.

I'm interested in your opinions on what's below. Recently I stumbled across all this while looking up something about the pyramids at Giza, stars, and Jewish holidays & holy days on the internet. The article below from the Washington Post-note that Cal Tech astrophysicist, author (Beyond the Cosmos) and Minister, Hugh Ross weighs in. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/03/15/the-first-solar-eclipse-to-cross-america-in-99-years-is-coming-to-some-its-an-act-of-god/?utm_term=.f6d655419471 Then there's this happening 33 days later (the day after the autumnal equinox which is also biblically relevant.): http://www.watchfortheday.org/1260tetrad.html This article above gives good information regarding the biblical perspectives of planets/stars. Revelation 12: 1-6 12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. The Feast of Trumpets starts on sunset of 20th of September 2017 and is sandwiched between the solar eclipse but before the alignment of planets. Explanation of Feast of Trumpets aka Rosh Hashana: https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/newsletter/newsletter-sep-2000/the-feast-of-trumpets/ Jewish Holiday calendar 2017-2024: https://www.hebcal.com/holidays/2017-2018 An interesting fact is that on the 9th of Av, which is the annual Jewish Holiday named Tish'a B'Av, both of the recorded Jerusalem Temples on the Temple Mount have been destroyed on that exact date-hundreds of years apart. A third Temple, which will be built upon the Temple Mount during The Tribulation period, is also prophesied in scripture to be destroyed near the end of The Tribulation period. Scriptures indicate there are 2 one thousand two hundred and three score periods (42 months), marking the double 3 1/2 year periods or 2,520 days, marking as some believe, the 7 year Tribulation period. For example, seven years from now Tish'a B'Av in 2024 occurs on August 13, but starts at sunset the day prior (as most/all Jewish holidays do too) on August 12th 2024. Third Temple destruction: Daniel 9: 24-27. This account is mirrored again in the book of Revelation as is the events of the Tribulation to the end to this world are therein as well. Genesis 1: 14-16 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Scriptures say to watch, and be ready: Math 25: 1-13 1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. Good to note the Greek word for virgins is not the one used for bridesmaids, virgins is translated appropriately. The unwise virgins represent the many who will turn to God and Jesus after the rapture, they waited too long to decide but will see the signs and be converted, unfortunately those will all have to suffer the perils of the Tribulation, where many will die. Things to be prepared for, watching, ready: Math 24: 40, 41 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Jesus departed from Mount of Olives/Bethany and shall return in same manner: Acts 1: 9-12 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And perhaps also a feast awaits us - similar to the marriage feast. A comforting verse below, this whole section of scriptures speaks of the reunification of Israel after the tribulation ends, and also of the return of Christ when the Tribulation starts. It is interesting to note which period is being addressed verse by verse throughout. Mathew chapters 21-25. Mathew 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (NIV) John 14:21b ...and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Nonetheless, I am a layman, in this snapshot of a period of time in the near future it appears that the planetary conjunctions of sept 23rd are significant, and in the least it appears to be a sign to those of us now watching and hoping, and perhaps also to those who are left behind. It remains to be seen what exact dates/hour are applicable here or in the future in regards to The Return. The scriptures do however, exhort us to watch, and be ready, and to be comforted. Any biblical astronomical studiers-dabblers here? _______________________________________ For additional info: For those interested, the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Enoch, Isaiah, Revelation (and other books) are chock full of end times prophecy, and end times information. There are tons of websites containing information on the above occurrences any search engine will pull them up. There's some great Christian folks on the web who have put in a lot research time and effort to put this knowledge out there to be assessable to those who want to know. They will also be a great trail to follow for those "unwise virgins" who are left behind. The book of Enoch (Enos) which is referenced four times in the Bible but was left out of the cannon of scripture, can be found online. A huge reference source for end times, nephilim, and ties the history of man and gaps in scripture together. A good translation is by R. H. Charles. It's free here: https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Enoch_(Charles) but is also available by Charles on Amazon. This is what I was looking for when I surprisingly found out about the September 23rd planetary alignment, good stuff - http://watchfortheday.org/signsoftheend/giza2024.html This fleshes out more details - http://storage.cloversites.com/frederickchristianfellowshipchurch/documents/Week 5 student.pdf Also excellent resources are Corps grad Patrick Heron's books: "The Nephilim and the Pyramids of the Apocalypse" and "Return of the Antichrist and the New World Order". These books will help the reader to more understand the book of Revelation, end times prophesy, creation, the math and precision of the universe and of the scriptures and of the pyramids at Giza. Both books can be found on Amazon. He is also on YouTube teaching similar things. For more information on Hugh Ross' Ministry organization - Reasons to Believe, which combines adherence to the sciences, faith & the scriptures - http://www.reasons.org/about/our-mission ( I am not a member)

Right, this is not exclusive to TWI, of course. And IMO what is "inspiration" is subjective. I enjoy parts of the Bible as wisdom literature, but have many questions about a lot of other parts. There is much history of the canon that's available and interests me, but no, I no longer hold to Christianity's view that the canon we see in the KJV is the Word of God in the way TWI means it. It's been a long journey for me to reach this point ... just my personal take on the situation, not meant for everyone for sure. My point here was that anti-gay teachings are what we should not be surprised to hear coming from folks who take the Bible as the literal Word of God. What else could they really say and stay true to their belief about Scripture?

any more potty mouth stuff like that again and I'm calling a Grease Spot Moderator !

I am a reporter. I cover criminal trials. I cover a lot of criminal trials. I probably know more about the law regarding crime than you do. However, if you were arrested, and I tried to represent you in court, I could probably go to jail for that. Regardless of the (assumed for the sake of argument) fact that my knowledge of the subject is greater than yours, it does not mean in any way shape or form that I am qualified to practice law. The developers of the REV have as much business constructing a new translation of the scriptures as I have practicing law.

I'm a PhD. Joined TWI in grad school. People do occasionally call me Dr. St. George. (In formal settings.) George

If the victoid was "cleansed".. how come he stayed so dirty? The "finished work of Jesus Christ" seems to have "failed" or has no relevance to herr vicster.. I mean, if he's a Poster Child for what Jesus can do for someone- on a practical, if not just spiritual level.. if I were Jesus, I'd sue for defamation of character..

Um what is disrespectful about pointing out the fact that he wasn`t a doctor,that in using the title the man was a fraud, a liar? VPW didn`t have the education or credentials of a doctor, maybe that was why he proved so unqualified to teach, to minister to, and conduct himself as a christian leader. That would explain his many shortcomings. Maybe if he had had the discipline, the stamina and endurance required to work and honestly earn that doctorate, he might also have developed the character and maturity necessary to be dealing with peoples lives and spiritual well being. Presenting himself as a doctor was a flat out lie. Presenting himself as a Christian or leader on behalf of God was an obscenity.

I think that pretty much sums it up. The people who still refer to him as "Dr" do so because they still believe what he taught and hold him in high esteem. Why they continue to do so is a matter for another thread. :-)

Remember the children's game, Simon Says? TWI was much like that. If Simon didn't say it, it didn't mean jack. But if Simon said jump, everybody had to jump.

Did you actually know this woman personally or are you basing your opinion on one side of a WOW war story? Because when I read this story what I see is someone seriously violating someone else's personal boundaries in a way that would be unacceptable in almost any society (except perhaps among 2 year olds). Then again, there is a logic to it that does fit. A large part of what took place in TWI was about violating someone's personal boundaries to the point that they no longer had any. Much easier for leadership to dictate someone else's life, to get someone to the place of "spiritual maturity" such that they can violate them emotionally, spiritually, sexually, etc - by teaching them it is somehow wrong and shameful to have personal boundaries. But it was okay cause it was all in the name of "lightening up."

If devil spirits are real and fit the profile that was outlined in the Advanced Class, Wierwille, himself, was a poster child for possession.

"People are noticing the junkies in the area now, but they’ve always been here." Yes, the seedy side of TWI was always there. We just couldn't see it through our idealism coated glasses......everyone needs a new prescription, eventually.

Ya know, I have tried really hard to see your perspective on things. In the end, I can only conclude you are one truly sick and twisted puppy. And yeah, it is a personal attack and the moderators can go ahead and smack me for saying it.

Your choice in pronouns fascinates me, and exposes you. I was born and raised in a Christian family, believers all. I was with believers 24/7 since the day I was born. If my earthly brother had behaved as my WOW brother had behaved, my earthly father would have put a stop to it. It is telling that TWI HQ found no serious problem with my WOW brother's behavior on the field. HQ often removed WOWs from the field for one reason or another, but not this New Knoxville kid. He got to stay, and because the three of us knew that this guy knew Dr, we felt trapped and stuck in an unhealthy situation, knowing we had no way out except to pack ourselves up and leave the field. That was an unacceptable choice to us. It wasn't until I came here to GSC and started reading and hearing about the manipulative and sexually incontinent behavior condoned and practiced by TWI leadership that I started to put 2 and 2 together. I finally understand, all these years later, why the wiener-wagger received only a slap on the wrist.

Well, then, another W.O.W. success story....

He should have been removed from the field via Super Sonic Transport. Most other organizations would have done so. That would have been pure hell to live with for an entire year. That's sexual abuse, pure and simple. Jerk. By the way, I'm sure there were "stunts" he pulled with every single person he was alone with.

Whaddaya mean, throw darts? God Himself chose my WOW brother for me. ha. ha ha. haha. hahaha. Haha! Hahaha!! HAHAHAHA!!! My WOW brother was also our family coordinator for the first few months, until our BC finally believed what we'd been telling her and got permission from HQ to demote (but not remove) him. He used to entertain us, his stunned WOW family. His favorite way, one which always got a huge laugh out of him, was to walk out from the bathroom with his thang dangling out his zipper. haha, what a riot. Another favorite was to walk around with an erection that he would suddenly and unexpectedly flash at us. HAHA! Oh my. Those were some good times. You're the best. He was from the New Knoxville area and knew Dr quite well, he said. Darts. I wish they'd thrown darts. Good luck, Sowers! Now you're the best.