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Dumb and Dumber was a quaint movie that most humans chose to ignore, but it seems to offer an appropriate analogy on this thread. Here in this clip, Jeff Daniels is fooled by Jim Carey, who to pull of a gag pretended to be asleep for 20 years. Jim Carey is like your brain on stupid PFAL analogies. You, like Jim Carey, can wake up after 20 years, and then say "gotcha". Boy, you really did get us. See I can write analogies too.

Rrobs, presuming everything you posted was serious, you're running into some very elementary and very obvious problems. 1) You do not know where you are. The GSC exists specifically to "tell the other side of the story" with twi, and sometimes with its offspring, the offshoots. That means that, not only is it NOT a vpw admiration society, it is the opposite of that, and people have told about the many felonies for which vpw would have gone to prison if he had been caught, and if he hadn't been as thorough as he had been in covering his @$$ when raping women and making sure they wouldn't tell on him. So, posts extolling his brilliance, or ignorant of the rather fundamental flaws of pfal and twi materials, will reflect poorly in this crowd. (vpw plagiarized and often didn't really understand what he plagiarized, so he reproduced correctable errors entirely, and sometimes quoted incorrectly and contradicted himself, and sometimes added a few things to make himself sound like he was walking around getting revelation when he was using hidden sources for his (often wrong) claims, and occasionally adding a bit of charlatan showmanship to make it look more convincing.) 2) Furthermore, posts which reflect a vocabulary centered around twi-speak that also include claims that the poster examined vpw's work independently and thoroughly expose a rather marked lack of thoroughness in that department. 3) The GSC exists to "tell the other side of the story." It is not a Christian messageboard, nor does it need to be. There's no universal consensus on doctrine among posters that represent a variety of Christian positions, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, wiccan, etc. So, expecting everyone here to agree on the Bible as THE standard is not effective, even if it's not as volatile as trying to get them to agree on twi materials as THE standard. 4) Because there's such a variety of posters, there's no one official consensus. However, you'll notice that nearly all the posters agree about vpw's plagiarism having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and about his rapes and molestations having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That's because they're so well-documented and tracked after the fact that people from greatly-differing perspectives agree on them. 5) If what you're looking for is "the cheerful posts", the GSC is not the best forum for you. It's here to INFORM. Do you look to the evening news for your daily dose of sunshine? Furthermore, there's threads that are fairly cheerful. They're NOT in the forum where we discuss vpw's felonies. 6) Much of the time, we don't need to rehash the same felonies here- except when someone arrives and announces they didn't happen or that they were exaggerated or that it's fine that vpw was a plagiarist and rapist or whatever. THEN we have to get into the same old horse manure all over again. 7) The fact that we've informed people about vpw's felonies and so on does not mean we spend all our free time being depressed, negative people. We all have lives, and they're not on this board. The blithe dismissal of people with fantasies that this is how they spend their off-time is trite, and one defense mechanism of those who desperately want to imagine vpw was half the man he claimed he was. 8) If you really want to get into Doctrine, post in Doctrinal. If you want some light-hearted fun, we have gaming threads. in the Movies/Music forum. If you just want to repeat how wonderful vpw was and twi was without finding out why we disagree so strongly, this is the wrong messageboard for you. There's closed communities online that do little else but that very thing. They welcome another poster parroting the party line and would love to have you. If that's NOT what you want, then pay a little attention and consider changing your approach here. All the wayspeak, posted here, is a lot like someone showing up to a Holocaust Survivor panel in a Nazi uniform and playing the jackboot.

Rob, don't pick on T-Bone!! He is one of my favorite posters. He isn't childish; he is witty, smart, and knows his S--t; T-Bone rocks!!!

DWBH, leave it to you to make me laugh before I have breakfast!!

Rob, WTF are you talking about??!! Please do not give me advice; my mother is dead. I don't place anything above God; God is first in my life. I think you talk a lot of S--t.

For the past 30 years.........I'm becoming more adept at operating discerning of cults and know that I don't even have to be in their auditorium, or conferences, or classes, to detect their presence. Unmistakably, cults huddle in clusters of groupthink and are sycophants of lockstep loyalty. And, though they like to hide in the shadows of deception, hypocrisy, and unaccountability.........they mark their territories with exploitation and devastation of others' souls. Hell.........I don't even need to be anywhere near their headquarters or twig fellowships to smell the cult presence. It wreaks misery and despair as it grasps to drown others in its darkness. Thanks to GSC-posters, this discernment is exponentially flourishing far and wide.

Or maybe drive off a cliff like Thelma & Louise

That's for sure! LMAO!

Well, it's a Trinity.

This fraud Robson knows as much about the Trinity as dictor paul.....which is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He's a 2-cult bible student, and overt plagiarist of anything that is of any critical value in textual and MSS evidentiary critique. LIAR and plagiarist.......anyone see a familiar pattern???? It is not in any way difficult, disciplined, or academically acceptable to base all of one's "personal theology" upon the previously published and widely quoted works of others, without serious scholastic recognition and detailed footnoting. To say "I studied Greek" is no valid credentialling! Where? Under whom? How long? What academic or scholastic accomplishment or recognition of your "studying of Greek" did you obtain? Did you get your ThD at Pikes Peak Bible Seminary too??? LMAO! You understand that sky pilot for dictor paul ?? Like faddah (in-da-woid) like son.

All men are liars...and that's the truth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heNLjW4o5XE

Rrobs, presuming everything you posted was serious, you're running into some very elementary and very obvious problems. 1) You do not know where you are. The GSC exists specifically to "tell the other side of the story" with twi, and sometimes with its offspring, the offshoots. That means that, not only is it NOT a vpw admiration society, it is the opposite of that, and people have told about the many felonies for which vpw would have gone to prison if he had been caught, and if he hadn't been as thorough as he had been in covering his @$$ when raping women and making sure they wouldn't tell on him. So, posts extolling his brilliance, or ignorant of the rather fundamental flaws of pfal and twi materials, will reflect poorly in this crowd. (vpw plagiarized and often didn't really understand what he plagiarized, so he reproduced correctable errors entirely, and sometimes quoted incorrectly and contradicted himself, and sometimes added a few things to make himself sound like he was walking around getting revelation when he was using hidden sources for his (often wrong) claims, and occasionally adding a bit of charlatan showmanship to make it look more convincing.) 2) Furthermore, posts which reflect a vocabulary centered around twi-speak that also include claims that the poster examined vpw's work independently and thoroughly expose a rather marked lack of thoroughness in that department. 3) The GSC exists to "tell the other side of the story." It is not a Christian messageboard, nor does it need to be. There's no universal consensus on doctrine among posters that represent a variety of Christian positions, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, wiccan, etc. So, expecting everyone here to agree on the Bible as THE standard is not effective, even if it's not as volatile as trying to get them to agree on twi materials as THE standard. 4) Because there's such a variety of posters, there's no one official consensus. However, you'll notice that nearly all the posters agree about vpw's plagiarism having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and about his rapes and molestations having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That's because they're so well-documented and tracked after the fact that people from greatly-differing perspectives agree on them. 5) If what you're looking for is "the cheerful posts", the GSC is not the best forum for you. It's here to INFORM. Do you look to the evening news for your daily dose of sunshine? Furthermore, there's threads that are fairly cheerful. They're NOT in the forum where we discuss vpw's felonies. 6) Much of the time, we don't need to rehash the same felonies here- except when someone arrives and announces they didn't happen or that they were exaggerated or that it's fine that vpw was a plagiarist and rapist or whatever. THEN we have to get into the same old horse manure all over again. 7) The fact that we've informed people about vpw's felonies and so on does not mean we spend all our free time being depressed, negative people. We all have lives, and they're not on this board. The blithe dismissal of people with fantasies that this is how they spend their off-time is trite, and one defense mechanism of those who desperately want to imagine vpw was half the man he claimed he was. 8) If you really want to get into Doctrine, post in Doctrinal. If you want some light-hearted fun, we have gaming threads. in the Movies/Music forum. If you just want to repeat how wonderful vpw was and twi was without finding out why we disagree so strongly, this is the wrong messageboard for you. There's closed communities online that do little else but that very thing. They welcome another poster parroting the party line and would love to have you. If that's NOT what you want, then pay a little attention and consider changing your approach here. All the wayspeak, posted here, is a lot like someone showing up to a Holocaust Survivor panel in a Nazi uniform and playing the jackboot.

I still think VP was blowing hot air when he tried to make everything have a second tier, spiritual meaning. "Oh, sure, it says 'Thou shalt not kill' but what it REALLY means is....." Whatever happened to means what it says and says what it means?

Something that I think has escaped us on this thread is the way VPP defined fornication, adultery, etc. According to VPP, only the spiritually underdeveloped still think these are terms relating to the physical realm. Nope, these are spiritual terms. In fact, in the Advanced Class, he even said there was a spirit called the spirit of whoredom that plays a role in people committing "spiritual adultery and fornication". Silly us, thinking adultery was some sort of function involving the human body. Sheesh!

before doing so. Rub and wear a necklace made out of strung garlic.. wear a very large silver cross. carry a few wooden stakes..

Sorry that happened to you WG. I'm glad you stood up to that and fought for your son. If you hadn't then nobody would. He was given love growing up by you and a chance to succeed that he never would have had. That's more of an example of what JC would do than anything TWI leaders ever did. Jesus was the champion of the downtrodden, sick, the orphans without a home. I'm glad you cared enough to extend that love to him. All of us are adopted children in our relationship to God in a sense. We have no bloodline birth right.

Look Mom --- A WOW mobile!

In retrospect, the irony is almost comical. You come to a class that promises to unlock the secrets of abundance and what do you witness? The people running the class are reusing disposable cups, brewing yesterday's coffee grounds and stringing chairs that were donated because they couldn't afford to provide their own. It's like going to a musical recital and discovering the performers have yet to take their first lesson.

And all the while, we were hawking a "class" that promised its graduates a more than abundant life. Who was supposed to live this promised life? Surely not us, driving clunker-mobiles, forsaking retirement savings and health insurance in favor of giving our money for the furtherance of the greater cause of PLAF recruitment.

Naten00 this was the branch leader in 1996 in a suburb of Seattle. I don't know of it was his thinking only, or that of him and the limb leader, R**man St**iew, or him, the limb leader and the head honchos in NK. I just know what we were told: "Your son is not your son because he is adopted, and God does not honor adoption." I hope to God it's not TWI's official doctrine. If it is they are worse off than I could even imagine. By the way, we kept the kid and ditched TWI. Good choice, I think.

I dunno about this awful case, but I do know that the way international's idiotic judgments are very sometimey. Sometime this sometimes that. Heck, I knew of a region coordinator who told one of his state coordinators to counsel a young woman not to accept government assistance because she could believe her way to prosperity. Meanwhile, at headquarters it's De facto standard to help people with medical problems get on Medicaid.

We like to think we are somehow superior to all the other creatures that roam the planet. In some basic ways, we are really no different. We are fiercely territorial and driven by the same basic needs as all the other animals. We're just better at disguising it and rationalizing it with philosophical rhetoric.

In a world where technology is constantly changing at break-neck speed, one thing that actually remains constant is the primary nature of man. Monogamy, and its preservation, has been and will continue to be a major driving factor in civilized cultures, according to the opinions of sociologists.

When I was in FellowLaborers, in the mid 1970s, premarital sex among program participants was strictly forbidden. People were immediately dismissed from the program upon being found out. Years later, here on GSC, I discovered the hypocrisy that was going on, simultaneously, at the upper levels of TWI. It's so much easier to understand all this when you finally accept that the whole thing was a sham. It was NEVER some sort of noble endeavor, despite the fact that it's embarrassing to admit we were duped.

Sorry for OT, but I'm pretty sure the "Valusek" is none other than Jay, a high-school mate. I can't remember if I got him into the Way or not. If it was me, please tell him I'm sorry. VPW's blatant plagiarism and intellectual dishonesty were just the tip of the iceberg considering his wholesale debauchery. Anybody that argues that what he taught is "truth" deserves the spoilage that bad leaven will cause...

You should exercise it. Try re-checking the books instead of relying on your clearly incomplete memory. That Wierwille plagiarized is indisputable. The only argument is in trying to answer the question, "So what?"

In keeping with your signature line, perhaps you could/should revisit those books and refresh your memory. It seems to be in keeping with what you wish to believe to be the truth as opposed to what really is the truth.