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Or maybe drive off a cliff like Thelma & Louise

Grace thanks for digging up this 5 year old post. It made me reflect. Do I still feel the same way 5 years later? HELL YES!!!!!!! A thousand times over. False prophets. Yes you Rosalie Fox Riverbank are a false prophet, hypocrite, micromanager, and abomination to God Yes you Donna Lombardi Martindale are a false prophet hypocrite and liar. You should be DFAC yourself 10x over by any fair evaluation and publication of the rules you yourself have cast others out with. Yes you Jean Yves DeLisle are a false prophet and hypocrite who is fully knowledgeable of all evil acts but has sold his soul for pomp and circumstance. You control $65 million yet you still are a condescending entitled d bag. Just because you aren't a swinger doesn't mean you aren't accountable for the evil you have failed to confront. Your ministry sucks @$$. What are you going to do about it? Nothing because you are still Rosalies pawn and a spineless coward. Yes you John Rupp are a two faced false prophet. Your personality changes every time you talk to your sycophant council. Find a spine you posted your delusional resume after being passed over for President. How much did you get for your aoul? Anyone who allows these morally bankrupt individuals any spiritual authority over their lives deserves the consequences. The truth is out there you have been warned.

The whole DFAC terminology, language, designation, and handling of people to me is nothing more than more fear tactics enacted by the BOD of TWI. Since they are all false prophets, I have a better way of describing that whole angle. DFPOA - Dropped from a Position of Authority (Over Me, My Life, My Family) That's right BOD - you heard it first here. You are DFPOA as it concerns me. I have dropped you from having any authority over myself, my future, my finances, and my family - because you are false prophets. You have been dropped due to your lack of concern for my life, for your spiritual ineptitude and false judgements, your trading in flesh, your pompous attitude, your lack of producing anything remotely interesting in the spritual realm, your heavy hand over the flock, your dogmatic wrong interpretation of scripture in many areas, and your entire Phariseeaic functioning and attitude. When Jesus Christ comes back I will gladly watch as he strips off medal after medal that you have mentally awarded yourself, leaving you barren, naked, and ashamed. Those that will be first, shall be last.

Bro this is old. But what is a practicing Christian beyond someone trying to live a life with principal and a personal relationship with our Savior? You are more of a practicing Christian than those false prophets ever will be. And you are an inspiration around here. To me that speaks so loudly of Christian fruit that to me you should never doubt again anything in that realm despite your consciousness trying to condemn you for sin that God has long forgiven you for. Our faith post TWI in my opinion is well grounded and allows God to bring blessings in life we never would have experienced in the Way. Although for those choosing a different healing path God supports you. He is not fickle or unseen regarding justice

Strictly speaking, her renting a room to 2 lesbians who allegedly were "former" lesbians is proof of nothing in that regard. Strictly speaking, her choosing to travel with Donna on trips and choosing to share a room with exactly 1 bed is proof of nothing- but by itself, it should be enough to raise suspicions. However, the eyewitness account of one female poster a long time ago who walked in on them immediately "after" pretty much settles it. That completes the picture. If anyone's still questioning the situation after that, it's someone who REFUSES to consider what's before them.

Today TWI and Westboro Baptist Church would not only picket me but would seek to do harm to me. I came out just over a year ago

Towards my latter time in TWI I noticed that areas and fellowships that were doing well [not losing people as fast] seemed to be the ones who ignored the directives from HQ. Those fellowships that stayed on task [it was obvious because what they did had no correlation to what their fellowships needed] were dull, dying, lifeless and losing members faster. Kind of like HQ. I'd say if you did the opposite of what they told you to do you'd have a better shot at being in the will of God.

Ya know...I think we've debunked this eye thing several times here on GSC. But, suppose for a moment it were true...Where was the revelation that was supposed to warn him about safe levels?....Why couldn't he use the "law" of believing to turn the situation around?...The guy was a big phoney....He rode the gravy train and we bought him the ticket.

Hence, the term "false teachers" is appropriate. Show me ONE THING......where wierwille gave of himself without the payback factor looming close behind? Did wierwille spend a number of years on the mission field for his denomination? Did wierwille open an orphanage like George Mueller and pray for daily sustenance for the children? Did wierwille go WOW....to a strange city, with complete strangers, no job, and believe God to provide? Did wierwille take yearly corps assignments MOVING EVERY THREE YEARS FOR TWENTY YEARS to serve the Lord? Did wierwille abandon HIS family, his home town, his roots so as NOT to be tempted by "the devil?" See, when you set twi leadership TO THE SAME STANDARD THAT THEY DEMANDED OF US........it was a sham! Twi is a con where hypocrites rule over many good-hearted believers. It's so OBVIOUS......now. <_< .

I can tell you this much - unless something has changed in the several years since I left, the young people aren't falling for it anymore. Most will not come on staff thanks to Rozilla unjustly firing several younger kids a few years ago, and letting Tim Martindale escape all consequence when he was the ring leader in a night of drinking. I literally saw throngs of young people disappear altogether from HQ staff. Also, I had interaction with a lot of youngster at HQ and the prevailing consensus is TWI is religious and stiff. There is no excitement, no buy in point for the younger generation. Just the yoke their parents would seek to lay on them about being the next generation. Most stay well clear of the corps program. A few people go corps each years, and not all graduate. They were barely graduating 5 to 7 each year when I was around. I dunno if that has improved or not. I doubt it though. The kids today are internet savvy and they do lurk here. And I think a lot of them have their eyes open and want more out of life than a pauper's existence while being in servitude to TWI.

Yeah......ain't that a kicker. You abandon your family, your career, your goals.....to a "higher purpose" aka a spiritual calling and go way corps. Fom there, your life, your all, your nights, your weekends are devoted to moving da verd (the wonder class). Still, no matter how much you give.....you are still a serf and disposable. The dirty little secret is twi really doesn't care much about you. That's how elitism views the "little people." In a caste system, the top tier get to rule over your life. Perhaps, they just need another example, like you, to wield their power over their subjects at this time. What? You thought twi was based on the love of God IN MANIFESTATION? Shocking ain't it......when it happens to YOU. Twi was a revolving door in the 70's. It's a revolving door today. In twi's view, DFAC = Defunct. No, it's not right.....or fair.....or loving. When it happens to YOU, perhaps the scales will fall from your eyes and you'll finally see what so many of us at GS have been saying for the past decade. Life is far BETTER away from the cult. :)

That stupid ministry and it's devilish teachings have left people decimated in it's wake. There will be a reckoning one day, and I can't wait.

I remember acting like that... Heck, I marked and avoided my own FAMILY. It was really hard running into people like that - it caused major cognitive dissonance - to the point of mental pain. I was afraid of being contaminated (like spiritual cooties or something.) I felt like if they were still ok, they must be operating major devil spirits. I still cared about them, but I was afraid.... And if I did have to acknowledge them, what could I talk about? I mean, the Word ™ and twi was my entire life, my entire universe... Without being able to talk about that, what could I say? And I had no answers if they asked why they were treated so badly. I am so freacking GLAD I am no longer brainwashed. I was an a$$hole.

One 'inside' person I knew made this statement regarding her 'earthly family', "I prefer not spending my time with THE LOST." How creepy and sad is that? Who do they think Jesus came FOR???

I cam to the same realization before I left and figured if they abandon me then they never REALLY cared to begin with. Strange my friend and family that I had abandoned for "the ministry" were right there with open arms even after I had mostly deserted them for over a decade.

Good post, WordWolf! I received my original leadership training in the U.S. Navy submarine service. While I was in The Way, I just assumed that the top leadership understood how to lead. I didn't spend enough time at a root location, apart from in-rez training, to see how awful TWI leadership actually was in daily practice. After the Passing of A Patriarch was read, I kept expecting the Trustees to "take aggressive action to combat the casualty", as we would have said in the Navy. They did NOTHING! They dithered and lied and tried to palm the responsibility for the problems onto the lax standards of people running classes on the field. The scales fell from my eyes. I realized that Martindale, in terms of leadership, was an empty suit. I realized Wierwille had NEVER trained anyone to lead. Only to be yes-men and yes-women. All their comparisons of The Way to a military organization, including their use of the word "corps", became an affront to the true dignity earned by those who have submitted themselves to genuine military discipline, and who have genuinely led. This is from Military Requirements for Petty Officer 3 & 2: "Essentially, three elements constitute effective naval leadership: 1. Adherence to moral principles; 2. Good personal example; and 3. Administrative ability." The leadership of TWI failed on ALL counts! Love, Steve

Some people seem to confuse reality with television, movies, etc. Twi leaders seem to do that quite a bit- we discussed recently how ROCKY- a piece of FICTION- was very instructive as to how believing works (movies are SCRIPTED, our lives are really improv.) Television and movies are far more DRAMATIC than reality. So-called "reality" TV is heavily edited to give us the most dramatic incidents in a week or more, and are usually set up to invite more conflict than reality (like finding people who are unlikely to be willing to put up with each other and putting them together in a house. Obviously, SOMETHING will happen.) When Melrose Place (the original) started, I LIKED it because it was similar to reality. However, the show didn't get ratings, so they made it a wild soap opera and people kept getting thrown into the swimming pool. People don't USUALLY like to watch reality without drama. "Why didn't the character do the sensible thing?" "If they did, the episode would be over fast." That's across genres- I've said things like that with sitcoms, dramas, science fiction, etc. ---------------------------------------------------- Tying that back to the discussion... If someone actually lacks a background in something, they may be foolish or uneducated enough to think they can "fake it" or that "it's easy" and they can just use what they saw on television and in movies. (The television show "Mythbusters" has pointed out that the laws of physics don't work like in movies, people are even less likely to act that way.) So, they think that the military is all about blind obedience and yelling at the troops, and Psychology is solving a problem within a 1/2 hour episode with no lasting effects, and they really think they understand it all. This seriously undervalues the HARD WORK of UNDERSTANDING both PEOPLE and PROGRAMS.. The military isn't even about a lot of yelling in BOOT CAMP- when most of the yelling takes place. It's also not about BLIND OBEDIENCE. Soldiers who are blindly obedient get killed easily when an order makes no sense. That having been said, I had at least one teacher in grade school who relied on yelling. She was least-respected of all the teachers I had in grade school. I've worked with people who supervised and yelled, and they were respected the LEAST, and those who never yelled were respected the MOST because they respected the people they weren't yelling at. Yelling is not how you MANAGE people. It's most effective when ALL you need to do is get their attention. Thus, a soldier was yelled at when he was pointing a LOADED RIFLE at people, and children get yelled at when they're about to do something DANGEROUS to them. Most of the time, yelling is unnecessary, and doesn't help. It can lower the respect the yeller gets, or just anger the people they're expecting to have work with them. If that's true, the people will only do what they're REQUIRED TO DO and only what you're watching directly, and they will leave when they can. Companies lose good workers like that, and officers "accidentally" get hurt or killed if nobody gets them to tone it down. If you're working with children and can't do things without yelling, then they move you away from children, generally. When it came to twi and yelling, at the top, it was a LACK OF DISCIPLINE, a lack of SELF-CONTROL, that caused them to yell. Leaders who can't control THEMSELVES have no business trying to control OTHERS- they can't lead THEMSELVES. If leaders are unqualified (as it says in the Bible) if they can't manage a FAMILY, how can they possibly be competent if they can't manage SELF?

The rant on Joe C#@lter, was one of the low points of the 'class'. Not only was it uncomfortable to sit through, but it was all to familiar behavior from 'leaders' to 'subordinates' . At least it made clear where these junior G men learned it from. I recall talk afterwards that sounded almost like they enjoyed it. Like it was a wonderful example of the need to be the best for His highest and all that, and what an example doc was to not compromise the standard and so on and so forth. I'm sure there are psychological reasons why we subjected ourselves to people yelling at us, and ripping a new one, for the various 'crimes' like not setting a chair right, etc. After all this time, I still wonder at the zoo that outfit was.

I always thought that screaming and bitching about trivial stuff like that was evidence of a lack of self control rather than deep spirituality. I mean, what is the big deal? So the girl ate garlic! Get over it! So you don't like the lighting? Oh, right that must surely mean there are devil spirits about? There was one time when a transformer blew and the Convo was plunged into darkness. That was of course another devil spirit tripping a switch. I spent a great deal of time after the first week exhausted and napping during afternoon sessions, staying home to "get a few things done" and falling asleep. It got boring pretty quick.

I find it ironic it's called the "Advanced" Class when, in reality, it's some of the most primitive religious thought one might ever encounter.

Sometimes I think people use "heaven" and "hell" as the reason they choose to do right or do wrong. The reward or the punishment at the end of life is the motivation to treat others with kindness, to not act out of selfish desires, to "do the right thing." But if the reward for good behavior isn't there, or the fear of punishment isn't there, would they still be kind to others? Would they resist the temptation to steal from another person? In a way, seeing good done by an atheist or an agnostic almost speaks of more altruism than those who are religious. Why should we be nice to others if there is no one looking over us keeping score for the time you die? Just thinking deep thoughts tonight... And I don't mean that atheist/agnostics/insert-random-belief-here-people are somehow better than Christians at all. I just think it is important for each person to understand why they do what they do. Does that make sense?