Leaderboard

Rich........imo, you are bordering on Bibliolatry [......Historic Christianity has never endorsed worship of the Bible itself, as worship is explicitly reserved only for God.] Your statements like......"The Bible is what matters. Just read and study that and we'll be OK." I disagree with you. You sound like VP and the never-ending doctrine to "study and stand approved before God." Study, study, study......yeah, right. No thanks. Clearly, there is Jesus as savior, lord, mediator, intercessor, etc. aspects to one's personal relationship with the Lord via holy spirit within. Time and again, we see Paul and others herald these truths. Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle.......Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.....etc. etc. Imo, you are here agitating people with your "study, study, holier-than-others-doctrine"........and you haven't added ONE THING of substance that's changed my opinion. You sound like you're starting your like side-group and are trying to hype your soap to anyone who'll listen. No thanks.

skyrider hit the nail on the head. With Christianity the important part is Jesus Christ. One of the lies of the cult was to completely usurp Christ with the written Word - "the written Word takes the place of the absent Christ" Well first off - if they would stop acting like a-holes, and more like Christ, maybe he wouldn't be so absent, at least in example. Second, well a vast majority of fundamentalists do act like a-holes, so maybe they need a little I Cor 13 knowledge puffs up love builds up. But hey, we all probably could use a healthy dose of that as well.

There is NO problem......if you like one-trick ponies. As of yet.......you STILL have not addressed any aspects of Jesus as savior, lord, mediator, intercessor, advocate, healer, righteous branch, etc. etc. Have you advanced in your relationship with the lord Jesus......or do you wear your pfal-pajamas to bed every night? You have curtailed your wayspeak, but then with juvenile-frequency talk about gsc-speak as a diversion tactic. So, you're offering a study guide on "the supremacy of God's Word".......and the twit-cult offers "the prevailing word." Hmmm.......is there a difference?

Excie, VPW didn't know Jack about the military. I had Emergency Leave twice, in the Navy. The first time was in December of 1988, when I saw my father for the last time. The second time was in February of 1990, when I attended his funeral. Both times I came from Naples, Italy to Geneva, New York. Even the Navy understood that Sailors need to attend funerals at times.

Thanks Rocky!! For myself, I choose compassion over correct behavior, anytime!!

We'd be basing this on his actions, not his thoughts. Those things, his acts, we can know. Perhaps you'd have a greater understanding of The Bible, if that is really what motivates you, if you did consider VPW's motives.

Rob's, I think your feelings are very important at this Web Site!! Many of us had to hide our feelings, or shut them down during our time in TWI. Here, within reason, we are free to express ourselves. How liberating it is to be allowed to express my thoughts, and my feelings!!

I'm not saying this phrase in particular, but not everyone in TWI was from Western Ohio. A lot of phrases he used might be common to that area, but not other parts of the country and world. It's just another indicator that someone is dependent on what VPW thought.

.......EXCEPT when they're not. "All nine all the time"......................wierwille "I just want to see the baby"..........wierwille "....the word is still the word"..........wierwille

When I was "In" I didn't think in terms of "Fog", but looking back it's 20/20. I was confused, frustrated....mostly cause I just didn't seem to "Get" what I thought everyone else had easily gotten...Understanding of teaching or how to function successfully in TWI. I had an "Inner drive" to progress up the Ladder, but never got above being a twig leader....(For which I am thankful now). I had a difficult time being what other people wanted me to be, but I sure gave it my best effort...but falling short in their eyes and mine. I'd say it was a time of pressure and pursuit of things I could never obtain. After leaving, I remember being so depressed over what I had "Lost" while being in TWI and was confused as to was it really good from the beginning and went bad....or was it bad from the beginning and I didn't see it. What was right doctrine and what was wrong and how was I ever going to figure it all out. And really, mentally, emotionally, I was not in any condition to figure anything out. Now, having been out almost 26 years...wow...it really has been that long, God has brought me out of the fog. He has restored a lot to me and given me more than I could have ever thought possible. When I left, I didn't think that even God could fix me, but I was wrong. He was the ONLY one who could fix me. For those first few years, I focused on what I had lost...eventually, I had to let go of it all and focus on the "now" of my life. It certainly hasn't been easy, but it's been a journey to say the least. A journey I never had planned or even anticipated. I am thankful for you all. Hang in there...it does get better and better, or should I say, You get better and better.

The closest thing I ever saw to actual training in counseling was to recommend Jay Adams' book, "Competent to Counsel." It seemed to recommend against formal training in counseling, and its approach was called "nouthetic". According to the book, it meant confronting people having incidents and getting them to stop faking it. I'm sure that would be of use with SOME people, but with others, that would be horribly bad. All those with chemical imbalances don't need to be confronted, they need a miraculous healing or chemicals to balance coupled with some actual counseling. Hmm...that must be where vpw got his idea, when that guy in the middle of a meeting became incoherent and so on. vpw CONFRONTED HIM on it- when it was obviously not INTENDED but something BIOLOGICAL to anyone with an ounce of skill in Biology, medicine, or Psychology- and sent the guy home. A WEEK later, he arrived home. We never heard of the ordeal he went through, suffering from an obvious, acute incident of an undiagnosed psychiatric problem. Was it a critical dietary deficiency? Chemical imbalance in the brain? A stroke? Could he have dropped dead on the bus? Why did it take a whole week of bus to bus before he got home? vpw never gave him a second thought, either- he told lcm to stop worrying. vpw set the standard for not caring, for incompetent preparation and for confrontational "counseling."

As far as counseling, I never saw any evidence of training in counseling. Some people were more versed in Scripture, more in tune with the teachings of Jesus, and more humble than others. If indeed one came into TWI with counseling training, it was quickly obviated by a need to convince that person that s/he didn't know squat compared to the teachings of TWI. When we lived in the south, we knew a lovely, smart woman who was working on her master's in psychology, got a Ph.D. in child psychology and was a brilliant, loving concerned person. She went into the WC, married a WC grad, and the last I knew she was working on The Way Magazine. What a stinking waste of talent and education! I haven't heard from her or about her for decades but I hope and pray she's out of that mess and helping adolescent kids somewhere. Counseling: Your ADHD son doesn't need medications. He needs frequent, prolonged, painful beatings until he learns to submit or die. Even had one (spouse corps) WC grad advise me we should end his life if he didn't straighten up. JohnIam, thank God you are with people who love and understand.

i want POWER which i will use FOR giving myself an ABUNDANT LIVING. oh, and i want lots of free sex on the side. amen. hey, look at it snow!

Same with the Shroyer group (CFF).......daughter Tonia now sits in the big chair. When will people wake up and see how these "ministries" are just businesses where administrators make a nice living sitting in an office and/or traveling to seminars? Sheeeesh.

Seems like many of wierwille's former "leaders" now have a psalm....a doctrine....and their OWN class. Just like wierwille, tweak another's work and research a bit......and then, open the doors for business. How many guys have "taken their marbles" and moved to another game across the street?

The Way dispensed "counseling" as freely as some dispense trick-or-treat candy on Halloween. What training did they offer their leaders that would qualify them to provide this service? If anyone had credentials, it would have to be because they brought them with them when they entered the organization. It's not likely many leaders got credentials from an outside source during their involvement, as The Way frowned heavily on that sort of thing. Wierwille set the stage for denigrating secular therapies and treatments early in the foundational class on Power For Abundant Living, when he belittled the value of "world wisdom".

Johniam, my son was recently diagnosed with ASD. Your dedication to your children just raised you like a billion notches in my book. We may not agree on much, but you have my profound respect. Keep up the fight.

Received an email today with the lesson of the Honey Bee as a comparison to anger and how anger destroys the Honey Bee. The honey bee (or any bee I think) in his wrath sticks his stinger into a person who will get a little bump in most cases (yes there are some who are so allergic to the sting of a bee or wasp he or she could die, but this is rare. We had lots of bees around when I was growing up and bee stings were usual and customary occurrences.) The bee's sting is always fatal to the bee. And this analogy can be carried to unforgiveness, in my opinion. Our wrath may sting our victim more or less depending upon the sensitivity of our target, but unforgiveness is always fatal to the one holding the grudge. That root of bitterness grows within and destroys the fruits of the kindness of God, and the promise of God's Word in II Corinthians 2 documents that lack of forgiveness is the primary way satan gets advantage of us.

I thought I was part of something important and Godly. But now I know I was only watching inept leaders throwing temper tantrums to avoid doing any real work. We should have called all of them a Waaaaahmbulance. Big immature egotistical self serving cry babies who did not serve God or God's people. Only served themselves.

Ever notice how, when Mr. Wierwille's character gets called into question, there are those who insist on drawing others into some sort of discussion of Biblical parallels? "Oh, what about David? What about Jesus?,blah, blah, blah." We don't live in Biblical times and Wierwille wasn't a Biblical figure. He was just a two-bit con man from Cornfield County who used the Bible to cloak his deception. He had an ego the size of a '58 Buick and couldn't stand to be one-upped. It's really just that simple.

Jim.....thanks for verifying this incident. Wierwille-defenders like to turn the tables on whoever brings solid testimony of wierwille's wrath and character. Just like wierwille's wrecked twig-hopper......it gets covered up. No, we didn't discuss this, no one wanted to even whisper what happened. It went down the memory hole and was "forgotten." For reasons like this.....I chose not to visit the corps-only website where many seem to fawn over selected memories and feel-good experiences. Guess I'm just not wired that way.

Jesus cast out spirits and kept the people, the way international has cast out the people and kept the spirits. (I dunno, sounded pithy enough to post )

Welcome, Richard! As promised, here are the fresh baked cinnamon rolls today. Please, help yourself. :) I don't know a thing about John Hendricks, but I do know a bit about TWI and I would never get involved with a group that bases their doctrine on the things taught by TWI, but that's a personal decision. You may agree with the things they teach, believe and stand for. I don't like the way they treat people. I don't agree with how they run their business - and yes, it IS a business. Things I would ask: - How does VP Wierwille and TWI doctrine fit into what they teach? - Do they open their financial records to the membership? If not, why? - How do they handle people who disagree with the doctrine they teach? - How do they handle questions about the organization and doctrinal issues? - What do they teach on money, debt, the tithe, being saved, speaking in tongues? - How much do they get involved with people's lives? - How often is one expected to attend their meetings? - What are the requirements for leadership? - What are the checks and balances in place to avoid just one or three people making all the decisions? - What are the "rules" (spoken and unspoken) for membership? - Do they even have "membership"? If not, run - run away very quickly! In general, I would read "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and I would keep my eyes open, my brain in gear and ask lots of questions..... I do that with every church/religious group I visit. I've found one I like, respect and trust, but I'm not going to be lulled into sleep or busied into not being able to think again - not intentionally, anyway. ;)

My good friend is a member of that fellowship. I know that John did not adhere strictly to all that DR Weirwille taught. He reworked things and greatly encouraged people to go to the Word and figure things out on their own. My friend has been a member of that fellowship for at least 11 years and I believe that the fellowship is sweet. Bottom line - take things slow and be ready to speak up if you dont' get or trust something. I don't see anything wrong with getting involved with any group as long as you are willing to not turn your brain off.

How many apostles can you fit into a car? All of them. In Acts it says "they were all in one Accord." If I never heard this one again it would be okay.