Leaderboard

So with JY de Loser taking the reins of course we all have some curiosity as to how he is going to handle the hidden sordid past of the Way, the internet, and truths about how the Way leadership is (including how de Loser really is) and what they want to portray with their whitewash campaign. Now the honest ethical spiritual approach would be to acknowledge the evils, disband the organization that for as they say "70 years" has operated like a MOG cult lying to people about them being a "Bilbical research ministry" and manipulating them, and to contribute the $65 million in assets to any other charitable organization on the planet that genuinely helps people, and to pursue a different avenue in Christianity. But of course we know that the Stalin-like structure of the Way leadership and the extreme actions of marking and avoiding people (then denying they have that policy) will never allow them to give up on the $$$$ and do the right thing, but they will forever be engaged in what I refer to as the Way International Whitewash and Denial Society until they die. JY de Loser is the current President of the Way International Whitewash and Denial Society. So, what is he going to do? I mean we can't let this pesky internet business sink the ship we've spent all our lives building. I mean the ship has to sail on, regardless of the trail of dead bodies left in its wake. We have to fight back. What are we going to do? Well, you know, we at the Way are really really technology backwards, because Rosie hates the internet. That's why Linder has to print out all those sheets for her to read. Well presto, with a new President we can change that. Woohoo - commencement - internet warfare mode. What are we going to do? #1 Priority - we have to get Search Engine Optimization going to that the Greasespot Cafe, and John Juedes site can't be found by our young little fresh dupees all ready to obey unquestioning and increasingly controlling mandates. So let's start up a whole bunch of Way related websites. This will tremendously advance us in the Way International Whitewash and Denial campaign. What are they? 1. thewayministries.com - oh wait we can't use that one - it is already an Isrealite Nazarene ministry. that's ok though it helps. 2. thewayministries.org - the sister site to the Nazarene org is available - let's buy it up. Here is a fantastic place to take pictures of all the cards made for MOGLETS. At the end of each foundational class, it is mandated to make cards for the Board of Doolittle Dummies. (BOD) here on this site, we have photo pictures of all these cards. Of course we don't have the sappy cult-sounding innards of the cards, just the pictures. all on this site. 3. thewaymagazine.com - wow here we can repost old Way mag articles to spam content nobody ready in 2005 when it was published, but we can recycle them here. One regurgitated article a week, not new content, but taken from all years. Wow, some of the way mag articles they are reprinting took place during the worst times ever, as written about at GSC. That's OK, they can just lift out any content that doesn't have people's names, places, etc. in. and regurgitate. Because that's what the Way is great at - regurgitation. They call it research. 4. www.slideshare.net/TheWayInternational - Cool a new place for sharing presentation slides. Except for that the Way has never used these 6 presentations in any teaching known to mankind, it is just an exercise in some poor fool in Way Publications putting together another generic vanilla presentation with nobody's name on it. Never been used, never been published, never shown on a screen anywhere. Yes yes the Way slideshare. 5. thewayinternational.weebly.com/ - Weebly - a one page site with a nice picture and a generic organization description, external links to articles and content on the Way site. Hey that will help raise the search engine rankings 6. thewayinternational.strikingly.com/ - Strikingly - another external links site pointing back to theway.org - for SEO. Here there is a cool tagline "Sharing the Rightly Divided Word of God". And it describes how they "draw from decades of research". Which technically isn't 100% a lie. I mean there's no research going on now, and hasn't for a while, but they used to have a research department. All we need to do is make sure nobody can find the only originally authored piece produced by the person whose name is on the title in the entire research department published anywhere. And the only one you can pick up at Barnes and Noble That is Charlene Edge's book Undertow - https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/undertow-charlene-l-edge/1125195298. You see this one wasn't published by "American Christian Press" or whatever dummy non-existent publishing org the Way owns - some publishing company that is external to the Way actually read this book, approved it as a project, and it is published through normal channels. Congrats, Charlene, you finally modeled to the Way how to publish something correctly in the world. I hope they can't cover it up. 7. Twitter - @thewayinternational - now you too can have 140 character whitewashed daily devotionals spewed to you. 8. Flickr - www.flickr.com/photos/thewayinternational - all photos all the time, Flickr. Dang. Look how beautiful those multi-million dollar log cabins are at Camp Gunnison. Look at all the fresh grass there mowed so beautifully. It is divine. I mean that grass is so pristine. It gets less use than a PGA tour golf course on a Monday. Nobody is laying on that grass. Nobody lives in the buildings either. A skeleton crew - all to run an Intermediate class with 15 people in it for a few weeks, and have a semi-occupied hotel at other times that nobody stays in. Any former member would either be not allowed on grounds or if they were it would be total creepsville anyway. Actually Camp Gunnison is starting to look more and more like that deserted hotel in the Shining with Jack Nicholson. And we can see pictures of all these people too. The old bat looks like an old bat still. Rupp has some grey hair going on. Is that because you got passed up for Pres there guy? And De Loser still looks like a major condescending d-bag, just like always. Fun times on the internet for the Way. I'm sure they will think up more crafty strategic approaches for The Way Whitewash and Denial Society as we progress. I mean the show has to go on. There are more people to be marked and avoided. And more $$$$ and power to collect.

I think I can remember a part of PFAL where VPW had a bunch of "X"s of different sizes. He mentioned it doesn't matter the size they're all the same. Which is complete nonsense. Some fruit is certainly better than other fruit. Everyone knows that, as I believe you do too. I condemn VP's works. I condemn the works of those who follow VP's works. If you follow VP's works, you are hurting others. I condemn my own acts that are a result of following VP's works. I've worked to understand and undo those works. Is that clear to you? I am not going to agree that we're all suddenly now equal, so that a false ideal can be introduced and glorified, thereby we agree to commit more evil. VPW's works are evil. What you call The Word, God's Word, is really the works of an evil man which you have fallen for in your weakness. You are misusing and misrepresenting an ancient document (The Bible) to see the world as VPW taught you to see it.

Camp Gunnison reminiscing. You know now that we're on the topic I remember at one point talking to Ed H0bbs about all the log cabin structures at Gunnison and the project. Ed was telling me that VP tried to talk him into donating all the materials and labor for the work. He told VP, "well a great teacher of the Word once taught me that a workman is worthy of his hire". So VP said "you got me", and the Way paid full price for all of the log cabin materials and the labor (from Grand Lake Log Homes) out of ABS. So you and dwbh are telling the other side of the story where VP extracted his pound of flesh for having to pay full price. The Corpse. The only ones of us on the planet stupid enough to be "believing" for tuition equal to an accredited college so that we could hitchhike to Gunnison and work full time slave labor I would say for free, but we already covered that point that we were paying to work. And missing out on our unaccredited college courses that we paid for. The Way. Using people since 1942. Yes I feel like you guys too. It must be a similar feeling that the Israelites had from the other side of the sea looking back at the pyramids.

Yeah.......green grass and flower beds that are immaculately kept to perfection. The pictures of Camp Gunnison are deeply deceiving to those of us corps who slaved hours upon hours on those logs, railings, walkways, patios, stonework, and the grounds........as part of our "corps training." Yeah, right......ppfffffttt. More than headquarter's property, to me the camp gunnison property with its multi-million dollar log cabin compound is a testament to DISPOSABLE people. I remember the dozens of 7th corps electricians, carpenters, masons, plumbers, and construction guys who were sent "on special assignment to camp gunnison" to help with its completion. It didn't matter if these 7th corps missed Greek class or whatever was in the academic curriculum (cough, cough) that block.......the twit-cult needed their cheap/slave labor and the academic side was given a wink and nod. And, today........where are those dozens and dozens of "corps leaders" who were in the construction industry? GONE from the cult.........that's for sure. Sure......take those pictures when the grass is green. Take those pictures when there an "Advanced Class Special at HQ" that fills the auditorium to the brim.....yet, Sunday after Sunday Service and the attendance can hardly fill the front four rows before the staffers take their seats. Those pictures are the deceptive nature of the cult. When you've lost Boob and Doodie Moneyhands......you've got major problems at the root. Except for the picture of Ed and Donna D0ersam, I didn't see any long-time followers in that flickr slideshow. Where are ALL the corps leaders and advanced class grads from days gone by? Oh, that's right......a majority of them exited or were kicked to the curb. The new and improved cult has uploaded these pictures to the internet of their once-in-a-blue-moon event at hq.........fresh faces who come to greet, for the first time, the dolt-directors.....er, cult leaders. The whole thing is so staged, but then......SO WAS THE BRC-PROMOTIONAL VIDEO OF 1965. Remember that one.....where cars were pulling up to the brc and excited people getting out and entering the brc.....and mrs. wierwille told us at one of the corps in-residence sharings that people walked straight thru the brc, out the other door and got into another vehicle to "make it look like there was lots and lots of people coming to the way international." Deception even back then......oh my!! The cult has made its $68 Million off the backs of good-hearted people who were deceived. Today, it is still unrepentant of its evil. Yet, the record is clear.......where are the 3500 corps graduates who went thru their work/study/training program? Where are the 550 clergy? Where are the thousands of advanced class grads who gave their support to this organization? And, the answer is..........the cult uses and abuses people in its efforts to amass money, property, adulation and power. The Scriptures gave us plenty of warnings of seducers, hirelings and thieves.

The Way Whitewash and Denial Society.........INDEED. And Yet........in March 2017 dozens of corps leadership, who gave 35-45 years of their lives to the cult, signed a detailed letter of dissent. Might this be why the Moneyhands were M/A? In the past 10 years, twi is hemorrhaging corps leadership.......150 corps exited, and counting. New class graduates do NOT stay in the pipeline........thus, NO NEED for an advanced class each year. High turnover rate of staffers at hq......and a steady decrease of those wanting to work there. Attendance at the hq sunday services is consistently .....er, pathetically low. The Way International has a book value of $68 Million in assets.........and no transparency. Targeted character-assassinations and mistreatment of long-standing leadership.....with no recourse. Unrepentant Board of Directors continue to move ahead.......refusing to amend heavy-handed ways. For some who found this "utopia" over 40 years ago..........THAT WORLD just came to a screeching halt. .

In a Totalitarian System you are in utopia and everything is must be perfect. Because why wouldn't it be perfect? It's Utopia. If you admit there is anything wrong then that is admitting the system isn't perfect. The (Way) World falls apart. How dare You. Therefore if something is wrong it can't be the system. It must be You. And You wouldn't want that, would You? So nothings wrong. Ever. It is Utopia, right?

Now THAT I can believe.

They look so happy. Makes me sorry I left. Oh wait a minute..........on second thought........

hiya jonny lingo!...........i don't know who "joey" is, but i'll take the liberty of speaking for myself...........the unfettered pureness of genuine christian "doctrine" has nothing to do with pfal, vic, the pope, or any denominational interference.......it is god's "responsibility" to honor his word, and therefore, if indeed, god's word is preached, whether in pretense or in truth and love, there will be the resultant "good fruit" promised by its author.........the responsibility of the preacher, teacher, minister or "leader", is to ensure that he does not pervert the message with his own beliefs, needs or desires, thereby reducing god's word to just another "doctrine of men".........that is where vic and his boyz completely missed and miss the boat!......they did the opposite, and those who continue in the "purity" of pfal doctrine will continue treading water in the sea of doubt, speculation, and fear that vic and twi incorporated into their own brand of "christian" religion. vic built his "ministry" on the genuine, loving, idealistic work of you folks who were "honest christians on the field"!......there was no genuine honesty coming from him.......it was folks like you and your wife, and many others, who honestly loved god, and were thrilled at the truth of jesus christ, and joyed at sharing that truth, trying to help people....that were the genuine godly backbone of twi..........as i said, god will not allow his word to fall flat......no matter where it is preached accurately in the love of christ.........and anyone who does so today or any day will see the fruit of that word as it takes root in "good ground" ..........so, jonny, i too believe that where god's word is preached and taught in honesty, love and with integrity........it will produce the results god promises........so preach on brother! as far as forgiving those who have yet to apologize to you, (and most likely never will)......forgive anyone you choose to, if that's what helps you "move on"......the only time i think about any of the liars and thieves who might owe me an apology is when i'm here at the greasespot, reading about some of their latest "achievements" for the lord!.........LOL!........i don't need to forgive them, since they are unrepentant, and don't want my forgiveness anyway..........why waste time casting my pearls before swine???...........nothing they have done or may still be doing affects me at all........"i be fine" too!......... but, since many persist in playing their "man-o-gawd" roles, and continue to teach their doctrines of men as if they were somehow "god-breathed", i continue to do my best to hold them accountable to "the word of god" they claim to believe and teach.....why?.....because there are many whom they have hurt who still suffer, and they are worthy of my support as a member in particular of that body of christ of which we are all members in particular!.......if they seek to glorify the alcoholic, narcissistic, sociopathic, unrepentant serial sexual predator who "fathered" them in the word, and continue to try to whitewash his sepulchre, which is stained with the broken hearts, broken spirits and yes even the blood of so many of his "kids"....i'll continue to speak out about it!!............the truth only hurts those who stand in opposition to it, jonny!............imho......and, as long as twi and any of its splinters continue to promote vic and his bs, while ignoring the biblical commands that they repent for their wrongdoings, and lies, past and present, or, by fancy cover-ups and fair speeches try to deny their roots in vic's sickness-plagued, dysfunctional theology and the outright lies and evil practices of his "way ministry",......then i'll keep on typing and posting away here at the greasespot!.........as long as i'm here, they all know that there is at least one person left who knows firsthand how full of crap they were and are to this day!......and i'm certainly not shy about "sharing" those facts with anyone who wants or needs to know them! i enjoyed your post jonny!......you appear to be a genuinely good-hearted fellow............nice "chattin'" with ya here at the spot!..........................peace.

But did CES ever have thousands ina corpse program? It seems the first sequel did not have much draw. The third will be even less. Well, if he is a megalomaniac, maybe we are better off with him secluded in some little MOGFAT delusion in the woods of MS.

sorry for the techinical difficulties!...............so, there are the questions i asked of nathan friedly.........apparently, nathan has received some instruction from somewhere to not spend much more of his valuable cff "training" time answering any of these questions..........please note, that these are questions, some critical, but all honest..........they are not ad hominen attacks!...........apparently, the vic apologists find it necessary, in their "manic mission" of whiting vic's sepulchre, to post anything they can to direct attention away from these questions and the serious issues they raise...........so, i have taken a little time to try to uncover some of the "no link" facts nathan friedly can't seem to find or remember on his own, despite his loyal cff fellowlaborer access to the sources that could indeed supply many, if not all, of the answers to my questions as well as ham's! Please note: The views and/or opinions represented on these links do not necessarily reflect those of the Christian Family Fellowship Ministry. Christian Web sites SowersOnline.com [NEW] Fellowlaborers With God Living Tree Academy Akribos Theological Fellowship and Seminary despite the conspicuous appearance of these website links on the cff official website, i'm fairly certain, that nathan would proudly and boldly state that there is "no link" between cff and any of them............and, by browsing those sites, it is indeed difficult to find many specific names mentioned that demonstrate the strong "link" between cff and those who are the leaders, owners, operators, or members of the various boards of directors, admissions, etc...........however, in spite of their attempts to cover-up the strong ties to cff, the content of these various websites which is "open" to public view makes the links quite obvious indeed!............take, for example, the Akribos site, which purports to offer bachelor of theology degrees to those who would be foolish enough to "enroll" in their "accredited" christian seminary............ Denominational Affiliation… We are a non-denominational seminary, which holds to the Word of God as the final authority on any matter of doctrine. What Makes Us Different... Akribos Theological Seminary is the only post- secondary educational institution that builds its curriculum upon the easily grasped and understood principles of Biblical Study and Research. Why Do I Need A Degree… No one necessarily needs a formal degree ... However, it has been the called, formally trained, and degreed men and women in the Body of Christ who have had the greatest impact in bringing the light of God's Word to the world. then, in large, blue, attractive script font, they add.........."TRAINING THE SERVANTS OF TODAY FOR LEADING TOMORROW"............servants?..........where do they find them?...........and, what will these humble "servants" be "leading tomorrow"??..........cff fellowlaborers??...........s.o.w.e.r.s.??..........."non-denominational mega-churches"?? when you try to find the names of the akribos board of directors or board of admissions or faculty...........YOU CAN'T!!..........they are not posted any where that the interested browser can access them..........you'll need "special" passwords or fonts to find out that information!........but, if you look at the "curriculum" akribos offers for its 2-calendar year "traditional; track" bachelor of thelogy degree, you will notice the course numbers and names..........."how to enjoy the bible", e.w. bullinger, along with bullinger's "witness of the stars", figures of speech used in the bible", and "the church epistles"........then, you'll find course descriptions for "the bible tells me so", "the new dynamic church", god's magnified word", "order my steps in thy word", "jesus christ our passover", "jesus christ our promised seed", etc., all without an author's name or the name of a faculty member!!..........seriously!!..........go check it out for yourself!!..........i'm not making this up!! if you really want to have some fun, check out the "accreditation" pedigree of akribos!...........looks like they're right up there with pike's peak seminary!!!.........and, the way college of emporia and the indiana campus!!..........this it just what the world needs, is it not??..........this is where i'd want my kids to get their education, so that they too can be "leading tomorrow"!!......... what a country!........i'm glad that our government allows the intellectually inept, yet spritually qualified "masses" the freedom to promote and participate in these kinds of "educational" institutions!........the mind boggles at the thought of what these highly trained and educated "servants of today" are going to be able to do for the future of christianity around the world!.........think of the thousands of young christian leaders that will "go forth in areas of concern, interest and need" to feed the poor, heal the sick and carry on in christ's stead!!............why, they'll be bigger than the mormons!!.........that's who they remind me of, although you'd have to reduce the numbers by millions as well as the dollars and amount of time actually spent feeding the poor, or helping in disaster relief projects around the world!! and, just like the mormons, the "leadership" of cff and their "links", will warn against the dangers we questioners pose to them!....they view all such questioners as "apostates", prejudiced critics, personal attackers, and perhaps, worst of all..........intellectuals.........who, by their constant questioning, cause the faithful to "doubt their testimony", and, because of their unbrididled, critical thinking, cause the otherwise faithful followers to "leave the faith"!...........after all, the "leaders" of any really "good" , fascist religious system must never be criticized, or held to account for anything they say or do by "revelation"...........allow me to quote dallin h. oaks, former president of BYU, and current member of the quorum of the 12 apostles of the mormon church: "I also said something else that has excited people: that it's wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true, because it diminishes their effectiveness as a servant of the Lord. One can work to correct them by some other means, but don't go about saying that they misbehaved when they were a youngster or whatever. Well, of course, that sounds like religious censorship also"............really??............"religious censorship", eh?........"even if the criticism is true"??..........yup........exactly what it takes to protect your religion and it's leaders from the facts they themselves have produced!! ..........hey, why not?.......works for them!.........worked for vic too!........the doofus from okie tried it too! but, "unfortunately" for martindale and twi, the doofus just did not have enough "natural leadership ability" to pull it off!! about 16 years ago, boyd h. packer, president of the quorum of the 12 apostles of the mormon church, procalimed from his "watchman's tower" to the world, that the three greatest dangers facing the mormon church and it's continued growth, are "gays/lesbians, feminists and intellectuals"........right about the same time the doofus from okie began his march into the "promised land of the present truth, behind the walls of zion", with the "god-commanded" "homo purge"!........ vic, several times, during "lunch-time sharings" to the in-residence corps during 1972-74, praised joseph smith and brigham young and the mormons, for the way they built and ran their church!.......of course, they were totally devoid of any "doctrinal truths", but they sure "knew how to take care of their own"!!........he admired the way they "handled their finances", and amassed their "great financial fortune".......he wondered if we "corps kids" would show the same strength and determination the mormons did in the face of persecution!.......would we be willing and able to "march across the country, barefooted, pulling those damn carts" if that's what it took to "stand and move the word"??...........would we??.........guess not!..........martindale admired the "practical abilities" of the mormons too.........but, again, his abject lack of "natural leadership ability" combined with that famous neanderthaal intellectual capacity of his, proved to be too little too late to save his sorry "ministry"............and, "rev" wayne clapp and the other cff "leaders" were right there helping him, and carrying out his orders........and, despite their best efforts to establish the "no link" to twi mentality required to be a part of their church, they still carry vic's, lcm's and twi's baggage with them to this day.........but, they lack the honesty and courage to "stand by their man" publically, and "officially" like the mormons do for joseph smith and brigham young........... so, ham............"here we go again"??............not as long as there's a greasespot cafe that provides a forum for us questioners to ask our questions!!.............their refusal to honestly and openly answer those questions says more about them and their church than all the denials and cover-ups they employ in their attempt to establish their own identity...........like their "father in the word", they are whited sepulchres, broken cisterns which can hold no genuine "water of life"!.............paraphrasing my pal al here..........they are the embodiment of insanity, repeating the same twi formulas over and over again, expecting different results!..........proving that old adage, ya can't get good fruit from a rotten tree!..........................................peace.

When I ask "where are the checks and balances".. "where are the safeguards".. I really DO have a good, logical reason..

Another thought.. Fast growth can be a highway to hell for some organizations. It's it's own worst nightmare.. the old ministry rapidly outgrew it's ability to provide SOUND leadership at an alarming rate. That's providing it could provide sound leadership to begin with. These new bunch coming up. They are what.. 21, 22, 23.. 24.. "we gotta BUILD men and women.." I think they will end up with the same thing as the old.. many leaders as uneducated and unsound as they are inept and unproven. I saw many in the old days side with evil because it was simply the easier route. Or it felt right. Or it had enough money. So many of the leaders of this newer offshoot.. are facing the twilight years of their life.. there's not entirely monumental growth in the organization.. loss of other leaders probably remind them of their own mortality.. why are they so desperately afraid, or concerned- that their "legacy" will pass into the night.. I view this new development as a desperate measure.

Even if hearts are pure and intentions are honorable with this group (V2P2 and all the offshoots, for that matter), IMHO there needs to be full disclosure about V1P1 and twi. If the children and grandchildren don't know, Cl*pp and co. certainly do and need to come clean with the followers. If the care and concern is for the individual believers rather than the financial stability of the organization, they'll be honest. I keep thinking of this in terms of full disclosure...you know, like the cars that went through hurricanes and someone cleans them up and doesn't tell the potential buyer the history of the car...that's dishonest. edited for clarity...hopefully

Thats an honest question, if I wanted christian or spiritual education for myself or my children I would hope that the organization at the very least would be upfront and honorable about its policies, reviews and checks, curriculum--everything.. Even without the bad history --Its highly suspect and just plain a bad idea to entrust these types of decisions to an unproven 24 year old.

thats was my main consideration , although I didnt voice it very well, immediately when I saw the Sowers sight, It seems like a fools errand to attempt again something that has shown by its history to be headed directly to nowhere

The irony of it all...... If I recall correctly, prior to vp wierwille deciding to move twi's headquarters to the wierwille homestead near New Knoxville.......many faithful followers near Troy, Ohio wanted wierwille to "set up shop" there. Well, it didn't happen.....and after Harry and VP bought out Rueben's share, the old farmhouse and property became the epicenter of twi. And, now...........CFF in Tipp City (just south of Troy) is the re-surging "genuinely-wierwille" ministry of the 21st Century. With an outreach program and now a corps-style training program (with vpw's exact corps principles in place to highlight its goals/direction)......it seems da ja vue (sp?) all over again. I must admit......I have no dog in this fight......but as a corps grad who followed twi's company line for 24 yrs, I look back and SEE how young and naive one can be while a 58 year old wierwille talks about life, "spiritual matters" and "living for something bigger than yourself" around nightowl campfires. Yep.......mow the grass, weed the flower beds, clean the dishes, set up tables, string the chairs, shovel the snow, etc. etc.........all in the name of "moving the word over the world" while twi socks away $45 million and trustees go elk hunting, go to the Bahamas, vacation in Florida, etc. VP Wierwille marketed his pfal product and polished his stage persona......BUT when the cameras were off much of his lifestyle depicted a carnal man, a man of the flesh. And, to this day.......there seem to be pockets of wierwillite followers who live in pfal rewind. But hey........if some want to go spend time on a farm in Mississippi.....living in a commune-style setting and all, it could have some beneficial value for sure. BUT.........if it's a subtle attempt to resurrect the wierwille adulation WHEREIN CHRIST IS NOT THE HEAD then I'd say that any and all spiritual value just went down the toilet.

Yeah.....lots of questions, now that over 30 years have passed for some of us. 11) What does 24/7 really mean? Prayer vigils? Sleep deprivation? 12) Do I need sponsors? Parents' weekends? Snack runs to local store? 13) How are Holidays handled? Thanksgiving? Christmas? St. Patricks? 14) At the end of the program, then what? A graduation? Another program? More hoops? Done? 15) Is this "outdoorsy training" equipping one to run fellowships? Run classes? Leadership in cff? 16) Will spiritual protocol be enforced? Adulation for Dr. Wierwille? History of wierwille's ministry? 17) Cell phones? Internet access? DVDs? Music videos? Self-structure time? 18) If sickness or hospitalized for a bit, will I be sent packing? What are your policies? 19) Will there be a curriculum? Hands-on biblical researching? Or, just non-dialogue classes? 20) Will students be handled individually or is this another clone factory? Questions, questions..........

I don't think they are evil ... no more so than the well intentioned were in the days of the 70's and early 80's. But the ego and pride does have a way of welling up ... and the concept of training up "leaders" seems to put V2P2 as the mog ... and he is only 24? And the structure seems like an old wineskin. As for the geezers, they already have a pattern of the old ministry patterns etched in their brain, so that would be hard to escape. Which is why it would seem copying directly from the old patterns only reinforces that other actions will be funneled down the same old path. It sure seems they want to claim the greatness of the old days as their own. When there are churches around that have to share a minister, yet have quite a few parishoners, I'm skeptical of groups like CFF with several paid staff. I'd certainly want a full disclosure of finances, and a knowledge of who will own this farm that is being improved. But that's just me ... I'm not joining. Just a fun little topic for a site like this. Maybe the third time is a charm ...

My impression is they don't really KNOW the mistakes gramps made.. I think they were carefully shielded. I don't know what they think of the parents. One son of the innies publically called one of the "twigs" a "geezer fellowship" on a myspace page. Maybe he has half a chance.. but I think the general thought among a lot of them is: "it was something that happened when I was five years old.. what POSSIBLE RELEVANCE would that have to today?" I think youngster took at least one history class.. what "possible relevance" could what the British did to China in the last century or so have to do with the current state of affairs.. They just let bygones be bygones and all.. It was just "business" ya know.. supplied a little dope to heat up the economy a little.. sure.. "let's just be friends now.." ;) But the system they are trying to resurrect, taught people how to live in poverty and grovel.. no college loans, just stay in the same dead end career..no house payments, just keep making the bank payment for some landlord.. no car payments, just own a rust bucket that costs you ten times the maintenance.. and above all, be LOYAL.. give fifteen percent and up, an keep smiiiiiling..

I don't know about the CFF outreach program or their foundational class. But it does seem to be the organization behind the Way Corps II. And there does seem to be a massing of Wierwilles ... which is fine by me ... it is nice they could stick together I suppose. It seems a little odd that they would not reveal the CFF brand on their Sowers page ... perhaps it is assumed only their followers will be going there anyway. But I don't see Sowers mentioned on the CFF page either. Oh, and it doesn't appear the volunteers have to pay, except by way of their labor. Their family camp seemed a little sparse, so it might be hard to draw 12 volunteers to give up almost a year in apparent submission to a 24/7 program. Of course with Vic2 leading the thing with 12 disciples volunteers, the time in the wilderness seems fair game for our helpful comments. With the obvious comparisons, you have to wonder if these special twelve won't be endued with a special aura of destiny ... as they sit at the campfire and speak softly of the greatness that lies ahead of them ... Well, they will certainly have plenty of examples of what NOT to do, but it does seem they are starting off down the same path. Pick your rut carefully, you may be in it a long time ...

I'd like to make a small comparison.. what are "nunneries" turning out these days? Here's one who teaches chemistry and biochemistry: http://www.odu.edu/webroot/orgs/IA/univers...2122007040147PM here's one who will likely be able to teach graduate courses in literature: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...750C0A96E958260 .There are well over a hundred nuns in the u.s. who have a REAL doctorate in Mathmatics.. what are they doing? Raising up chemists, physicists, engineers, more math people.. among other things. Trying to improve the economy despite insane governments in some parts of the world.. or just helping ordinary people with a career, so they can properly support themselves and their family. And we were "warned" of the dire consequences of their beliefs.. trinity and all ya know.. The Way Corps was FOR THE MOST PART, an utter, abysmal failure.. what did it produce? A FEW good apples. I know them too. But for the most part, I think what came out were not leaders and workers, but trained sycophants, honed in a carefully crafted shell game, a scam where they live on the backs of others. Along with meddlesome tyrants who aren't happy unless they have their nose in every crevice of your life.. and abusers, both sexual and psychological.. Look at gear, loy, lynn, the guy with the tinfoil hat.. what's his name.. and others. They don't know how to do anything else, for the most part. at least lynn did something "secular"- I'll give him that much credit. "believe to bring MATERIAL ABUNDANCE to yourself (we really mean) the ministry". Sorry.. to me, this newfangled thing looks the same as the old. unless they have a five year plan to get these "inductees" through school, or something legitimate, it's doomed..