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I can think of a number of reasons, among which: It shows us a glimpse of the arrogant, egotistical, self-serving, conniving and man-worshipping small minds that were and now are in charge of others in many, many ministry assignments or positions. The same kind of minds inhabit many of the offshoots. It would wonderful to discover that conditions have improved.

Sometimes I wonder about the days we are in, whether this is in fact the End Times. I do believe this is true. My most important personal goal now, to me anyway, is to learn to forgive anyone who was unjust or offensive to me in the past. I can't say I remember to whom I may have been the same and to how many. I feel I really need to put the anger against TWI into my past and move on. For some that were truly and greatly injured, this will be a tougher job. As for me, I need to place the bitterness aside, so much in fact that, in order for me to work this, I may never speak of the offense again. I had decided that if I do an update or new edition to my book, that I would in fact remove hard phrases against TWI and Wierwille or anyone else. Not because I am pleasing anyone else, but because the book carries on the bitterness I had in my heart. In the future, should I do this, I may still remember what offenses had been done to me even if I try to forget. But at least I would look on them without bitterness or hatred, and instead remember that we were once young and passionate, and emotions ruled the younger more than the old. Instead, I would prefer to remember the good times I had with the organization, and the profitable that came out. But I cannot allow the bitterness to follow me to the grave or worse, to Christ's return. My hope is that I live righteously by treating others the same way. Perhaps this is what was meant when it was written, "...in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us." Eagle

The corps were not allowed to GET mortgages. They are to be prepared to move whenever twi says so, whenever twi says so, until they die. Even though it's less profitable for them to rent than own often, they're expected to rent so they can move whenever, wherever. The money for all that? The magickal "believing" is supposed to provide that- so if it doesn't appear, that's the fault of the corps person. "Unproductive evil" was when lcm went on a rampage. People were supposed to give ALL their money and time to twi. If they didn't give ALL their money, they were failing to "plurality give." (How evil is it to be the only group with a term for the practice of "give all your money to us once you've paid your expenses and save none of it"?) If they didn't give ALL their time, they were guilty of "unproductive evil." lcm was big on purges. vpw did small purges in private. lcm did large purges in public in imitation of vpw. vpw did it quietly with corps, lcm did it openly with the rank-and-file. If you weren't ready to follow lcm off a cliff, he wanted you purged. All the purges were about CONTROL and EGO. They were financial disasters for twi.

Welcome to Grease Spot and I hope you enjoy looking around here. I am a little curious about you saying you operate all nine all the time. Can you elaborate on that? And do look around Grease Spot there's a lot of stuff here that may be of interest to you. Like vp's plagiarism. I know you said vp paved the way but there's another thing that's important to consider - vp lied about his academic knowledge of biblical Greek and fabricated his experiences with the Holy Spirit (there's lots of threads on Grease Spot that get into this btw) bottom line is - vp was not just a flagrant plagiarist - he was an incompetent teacher; his academic shortcomings become evident when even someone with a basic working knowledge of biblical Greek sees how vp parsed a passage in his book "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today". For someone like vp who taught "integrity and accuracy" were so important when it comes to the Bible - I find it extremely odd there was so little of either in all he said and done. When it's said someone "paved the way" it usually means they made the journey easier for others to follow using their pathway. If you care to look a little deeper on Grease Spot you'll also find many accounts of the followers of vp who were on a long and arduous journey in frustration and disappointment. I don't think most folks appreciate someone "paving the way" to that!

Too bad your reply wasn't, "Yeah. I joined this cornfield cult that talks all day about believing but doesn't know the first thing about love." George

I want to add - praying for healing can work but when it doesn't - who knows? We can get healed and get healed and one day we'll still be gone. We're mortal. I don't understand it all but I do know that condemning people for their infirmities is totally off the Word. Jesus healed people. He didn't ask "What have you done that made you sick?"

And all this "believe for this and believe for that" was based on a bunch of new-age mysticism that had about as much value as a hot pile of steaming monkey dung.

How could they condemn people who got sick? Aren't we all in corruptible bodies like The Word says? How come VPW could get sick and no one condemned him? Don't we all eventually succumb to disease and die? (If we don't get into an accident that kills us) Does that make it our fault that we end up dead? If we could avoid sickeness by not sinning, we could live forever in our mortal bodies. Didn't Christ come to deliver us from our corruptible bodies? For a biblical and teaching ministry they sure didn't pay attention to God's Word in that area. I'm sorry you had to put up with so much condemnation through no fault of your own, which I'm sure made your suffering even worse.

Back in the 70's when most of us got involved with twi, there was no internet. The information age, as we know it today, did not exist...All a person has to do is google the name Wierwille or The Way International and there is a mountain of information describing in detail exactly what an insideous little cult it really was. Makes me wonder how the Sowers deal with that? The old timers still hanging around must have developed a new narrative about how the debbil is responsible for all the exposes found throughout the internet. Maybe it goes something like this: "The dark forces of this world have had over 30 years to cover up the truth with lies. Lies regarding our father in the word and his ministry. Trying to keep people from hearing the truth" Shame on the old timers who promulgate such bull.......they know better...or at the very least...SHOULD know better.

Yessss!!!! Keep them coming, we are on a roll. I remember one week in res where I was up a lot with little sleep due to nonsense (I know, I know, like always right?) I prayed for complete peace not sleep as I didn't feel that was realistic. Coincidentally, I didn't run into the CC's wife all day long, nor any single one of a handful of "Reprovadors" (whole other story believe me). God is magnificent. He just doesn't fit into a box.

WW-----wow, you are correct....they taught one thing for a certain group, another for another group....Sometimes I have to wonder why I never saw this kind of thing....and it took coming here to really wake up and go, OH My gosh!!! Twinky, I get what you are saying..... I never did like the prosperity gospel.....it made the whole world revolve around me and what I wanted and how to get it. I'm so glad I don't operate that any more. And I think it takes a long time to get rid of some of these beliefs and try to sort through all this stuff. So thankful for all of you who have been here and you keep opening my eyes to a new way. I never knew what signing the green card meant when I signed it, if I had, I would of run the opposite way. You all are wonderful and my life has gotten better because of you.

twi was not carefully planned nor managed. It was improvised around SIN. vpw set things up the way he did because of his GREED (he wanted the tithes, no accountability, and no taxes), LUST (well-documented by now, he set up the corps and grounds for lust) SLOTH (the work of others, presented by vpw who didn't learn them for himself). rfr knew the right words to say to vpw to stroke his ego and look useful, but planned all along to get into power behind the scenes while doing no work (SLOTH), and enjoys lots of privileges without paying for them while advocating privation for everyone ELSE (GREED, PRIDE).

BOARD OF TRUSTEES

Another thing about the paper.. I believe it to also show geero as an enabler. Supposing it to be factual, if indeed the old man came sniveling and crying about his treatment from the trustees and his family, the best thing he could have done would have been to immediately drive him back to the airport and send him home.. but instead it appears he just allowed and enabled more bad behavior. More sniveling. More tantrums.. more calculated meanness, especially to geero's wife..

On a side note: He wasn't a "Patriarch". (To his own kids, yes. To everyone else, no.) I suppose it wouldn't have had quite the impact it did if it had been titled "Another country bumpkin croaked.".

I stood next to Chris Geer during the 7th Corps Group Wedding at Emporia. As storm clouds threatened to deliver an abrupt rain shower, we stood ready to make sure Wierwille and Martindale were quickly sheltered and that the Emporia campus piano was covered and protected. Having been around Geer on several occasions, I grasped the immense reverence he held to everything wierwille did.....and therefore, was not surprised by this "patriarch" paper and its lavishing praise of its founder/patriarch and the alleged men (trustees) who deserted him. Having been in-residence corps and on staff during this unique time slot, those seven years before vp's death, I was able to discern the mystique from the man himself. My personal experiences with wierwille, his visions, his projects and cover-ups convinced me that IF twi were to survive as a biblical research center, it would NEED TO MOVE BEYOND WIERWILLE. 1) At Gunnison, vpw's vision was to have a restaurant near the water tower overlooking the Gunnison River where believers from around the country could come, visit, eat and stay on grounds. With riding stables, white-water rafting, outdoor activities, campground teachings, nightowls, etc. the in-residence corps would serve guests, visitors and the elderly for a unique twi-experience. Never happened. 2) Plus, the retired and elderly believers could *personally invest and own* their own cabin and, upon death, relinquish the cabin back to twi ownership. No one did this. 3) Wierwille had two Family Corps guys with engineering backgrounds and gave them parameters on a *Sno-Way* project -- an all-terrain vehicle specifically equipped to be unstoppable in snow terrain. Never reached completion. 4) The riding stables, the Way Brand, rodeo school, rodeo clown era.......all fizzled. 5) Word in Culture Tent at ROA, the buying/selling of in-house [believer] merchandise, the Way Orchestra, etc. was systematically stifled, shutdown and shelved. The independence of corps fanning out into advanced educations, careers, writers, cartoonists, musicians & musical groups, etc. etc. EXPLODED and twi reined in this independence to stop the hemorrhaging. All of that *Word in Culture* teaching disappeared from twi materials. 6) Wierwille's twig-hopper was wrecked in Ontario and hauled back in secrecy to the OSC Building. In the warehouse, a secluded aisle was sectioned off and a temporary paint booth was erected. Flight Services personnel and a few other insiders were designated to fix the repairs and refurbish the motorcycle. Mum was the word. 7) VP Wierwille's eye removal and subsequent health issues were handled in delicate terminology to NOT off-set twi's stance on "the law of believing" and/or the mog's believing regarding healing. Why couldn't twi leadership come clean? Why the cover-up? Was cult ideology driving the message? 8) Country/Western Music and High Country Caravan were dominating twi's airwaves and publications in 1983-84. Seemingly, wierwille was inserting that this type of music and entertainment would carry the Way's message. Really? Was he serious? Was this boot-scooting music going to reach the youth, or anyone? THUS......imo, many of us who HAD SEEN the unfolding reality of twi-messaging were NOT GOING TO SWALLOW THE GEER PAPER. The dots did not connect. All dots to *living for God* did NOT connect back to wierwille or his "greatness." How many saw the same glimpses of disconnect that I did? Plenty. That's why, I believe, hundreds were slipping away to greener pastures. Ever notice.....its the dependent ones who remain. Dependent----financially, emotionally, socially. Those who have few goals in life. Those who have NO WHERE ELSE to go. Those who've been wounded, fractured, seduced, yet still can't seem to break free from their abusers. That's why.....I believe the Scriptures highlight 1)Walk in love, 2)Walk in light, 3)Walk circumspectly....for if you don't, a wolf is nearby stalking your every move.

I think it is a historic document. It documents the insanity that inhabited and inhabits way world and the majority of the ex-way organizations. I'll be nice and not paint them all with the same brush.. some turned out OK. If some of it is correct, it also documents the last few ranting sniveling moments of herr manogawd, which geero claimed existed but did not write the details. Well, the sniveling about his "men" at headquarters and his family was well recorded, but not the ranting. It also documents how geero kissed wierwille's rosie rear end.. despite the corruption he was aware of.. and the former buss driver thinks that he as the ability to teach somebody else how to manifest the great power of god.. he was so fearful and insecure, he had to pack heat to protect himself in a church service, when he read his "epistle". great power of god almighty? I think the "psycho" reference on other threads here is a fitting description.

I agree, Mr. Squirrel. It's like the proverbial skull and crossbones icon. No one is "happy" to see it. However, it's good to know if you have or are about to consume something that is hazardous so you can take appropriate measures.

For some reason I am reminded of a couple who had been living together for a year or so got into TWI and registered for a class requiring a hotel stay. The leader involved (ordained, WC, LC etc.) wouldn't let them stay in the same room together as they were not married and he was "taking a stand" against sexual impropriety. The couple naturally concluded that how these people act is different than what they say, and was never to be seen again. Moral of the story? The higher you go in TWI, the more likely you are to run into a leader with the IQ of a small soap dish, as those qualities are promoted, and this causes more attrition to TWI which counteracts any of their good acts. And the group shrinks.

Forgiveness....something each person defines and processes and does or does not do based on how they believe and perceive it. In my life, I was eaten up with anger about TWI, about other things and people (family) in my life. And I'm sure it came out in ways I didn't even know how I affected others. I entered into "Recovery"....and there I was taught some freeing, life giving principles that I applied and I received the freedom from my anger and all of my resentments. Forgiveness for me, just didn't happen because someone said to do it. I didn't know how that was possible. I first had to see that my anger and resentment had me in my own prison. The people that I was angry with and resentful didn't have a clue I was carrying all that around with me. And in fact, totally they didn't have me on their mind AT ALL. They continued to live whatever life they were living without a thought of me. That's when I saw that my anger and resentment was hurting me and not them. Kind of like I was saying, well, I'll show you, I'll with hold my forgiveness, I'll hurt you ...I will never forgive you for what you did but they really could of cared less about it. Kind of like me drinking the poison and hoping they would die. When I really thought about that I saw what I was doing to myself, when in fact, I wanted to be doing it to them, but that was not the truth of what was going on. So, I was instructed to pray for those people on my "List" that they would have everything that I wanted to have in my life. Happiness, wholeness, health, recovery of their lives, prosperity, a freedom, good things, forgiveness....and I tell you the truth, I DID NOT want to do that. It was the last thing I wanted to do believe me. But I trusted the instruction of the persons that told me to do it and then I saw it in the bible, pray for your enemies. So I did that even though I didn't want to...and amazingly the anger started decreasing and the resentments started fading away. Even to the point that I just didn't wish them hurt of any kind. After awhile, I realized I was free of what was holding me prisoner, my own thoughts of anger and resentment. I was free to move on with my life. To me, that process was a miracle. Never did I think I would be rid of those feelings and resentments I had toward TWI, toward family members, toward friends. All I know is that it worked for me and then I really could move on cause somewhere in that process I forgave them. I still apply that process with any resentment or anger that I acquire today. I've just describe what I found to work in my life, my own personal experience. I certainly do not know what another person needs to do in their life, I can only speak for me. I'm just sharing it with you.

I think now that I mostly feel sorry, pity, for the head honchos of TWI. Sorry for them that they have never learned, really, what love is, how to walk kindly before God, how to serve as Jesus did. They have missed so much in life. Their eyes are blinded. They have become so wrapped up in their egos or their organisation that they can't see what's clearly before them. Such small people. Small inside. Compassion has to come into true forgiveness. Compassion because the offender was weak, failed, abused. Did wrong, knowingly or unknowingly. As do we all. Only the self-righteous have no need for compassion. No empathy for offenders. And therefore no need to forgive. On another aspect of this thread: "forgive and forget" doesn't occur as a phrase in the Bible. When God forgives, he casts our sins far away. Jesus in his dying breath sought forgiveness for those killing him ... Romans and Jews. But many times, in fact, people are charged to remember, especially bad things that have happened. So that they can appreciate what they have now. Passover, and all that encompasses, is a ritual that ensures that forgetting doesn't happen. Paul, in Philippians, writes that he is forgetting those things which are behind, and" reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." But he also writes to Timothy: "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words." A clearer "Don't forget! Remember his evil!" warning you couldn't get. (We don't know whether Alexander was ultimately forgiven by Paul.) If this is the same Alexander of 1 Tim 1, then he was an apostate and a false teacher - "whom I have delivered unto Satan, that [he] may learn not to blaspheme." It's not "bitter" at all to warn against those that teach wrongly, that hurt others, that mock the grace of God.