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Welcome to Grease Spot and I hope you enjoy looking around here. I am a little curious about you saying you operate all nine all the time. Can you elaborate on that? And do look around Grease Spot there's a lot of stuff here that may be of interest to you. Like vp's plagiarism. I know you said vp paved the way but there's another thing that's important to consider - vp lied about his academic knowledge of biblical Greek and fabricated his experiences with the Holy Spirit (there's lots of threads on Grease Spot that get into this btw) bottom line is - vp was not just a flagrant plagiarist - he was an incompetent teacher; his academic shortcomings become evident when even someone with a basic working knowledge of biblical Greek sees how vp parsed a passage in his book "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today". For someone like vp who taught "integrity and accuracy" were so important when it comes to the Bible - I find it extremely odd there was so little of either in all he said and done. When it's said someone "paved the way" it usually means they made the journey easier for others to follow using their pathway. If you care to look a little deeper on Grease Spot you'll also find many accounts of the followers of vp who were on a long and arduous journey in frustration and disappointment. I don't think most folks appreciate someone "paving the way" to that!

My life changed for the better, considering where it quite likely would have ended up. I didn't cop too much flak whilst in, the flak from their religious toads came when I left lol. When I left, life improved even more, mentally, spiritually, financially, by about 500 percent.

Interesting post. I became a Christian at a young age and I had similar "feelings" at some meetings I went to. Like informal coffee shops and church retreats. Interestingly enough, for me, I never got that "feeling" when I was in a TWI group. I felt it was almost like a business. The believers had rote answers for everything. Opposite opinions were politely ignored and passed off as that I would understand when I had "the class". I took "the class" and I was less than impressed. But everyone else seemed to impressed and shocked whenever I expressed any sort of dissent. Soon, I decided that the problem was with me and I slowly succumbed to Way doctrine. I stuck around for a long time and graduated from the Way Corps. I was convinced by then that Way doctrine was 100% accurate and its leaders were inspired by God almighty himself. Still, I never felt a tenderness or warmness from the group and I was pretty cold and bristly myself. Maybe I just have a problem connecting with people emotionally, I dunno. I always felt "less than" and that I didn't measure up. I don't think that attitude was instilled by TWI. I had that issue long before becoming involved. Why did I stay? I'm not really sure. I think I was looking for something that would give me a sense of worth and purpose. Twi didn't do that, but I kept holding out hope it would. Why did I leave? After POP was read but not because of its contents. It was the disillusionment of seeing men who I thought were like God Himself on earth, acting like young teenagers. It was pathetic and I was shocked at the immaturity of our supposed elite leadership. I still hung in there though for a couple of years because I held out hope that somehow everyone would "see the light", whatever that was. Since then, and with the help of Greasespot, I've learned that, or at least concluded that most of what we learned was at best an opinion and at worst deceit. After reading writings and teachings from people other than TWI "scholars", I've concluded that really PFAL wasn't all that impressive with respect to "Biblical Research". And, I agree with Waysider, there never was anything uniquely good about TWI from its inception. Neither the world nor Christendom is at any sort of loss from TWI's decline. Having said that, I believe in a loving God who gives and blesses lavishly. So I don't doubt people when they say they experienced a relationship, a blessing, or a healing from God while involved with that organization. But these blessings are not a result of doctrinal purity or anything unique about TWI. I believe the most valuable things I learned from TWI were the order of the books of the Bible and the exposure to the written pages of the Bible. I think scripture memorization was a good thing. I still benefit from these things to this day. The interpretations of said verses, not so much.

exactly JJ ! Talk is good, just let people say what they want to say, how they want to say it...Let's not forget that the whole site is or was originally about us and 'them' (twi). Even tho I may totally be at loggerheads with Wordwolf and Raf over some things, I respect them for what they do and even more for what they've done especially the honesty to get out of twi. I think people like myself and for example St.George who post our thinking about the good WE believe twi did for us at the time should be respected as well. We're just being honest, not trying to trick anyone into thinking the same as us, just being honest...the way WE see it...Long live Greasespot

God sent Elijah to the brook Cherith. When the brook dried up, He sent him to Zarephath. Why would God send him to the brook, if He knew it would dry up? Because the brook was the best place for Elijah AT THE TIME, and then it wasn't. Why would God get someone into TWI, then later get him out? Same reason. George

I taught a college writing course, and one of the major lessons of the course was striking the right balance between abstract and concrete language. That is, just because you are using words, it does not mean you are communicating most effectively. JavaJane's opening post is asking for anecdotes, stories, "characters and a plot," as it were. What makes a story? People. Things happening. Characters interact. Something happens. Someone changes. "God got me in" is an abstraction (in the context of what the opening post is requestion: STORIES). God got you in? How? (Which Allan graciously answered). My own story, with the few details I gave, fell perfectly in line with what JavaJane was seeking. It was an example of an "unexplainable coincidence" that I, at one time, thought was "divine intervention" because I was taught there were no such things as coincidences. Yeah, I could have said "Word Wolf witnessed to me." And it would have been true. And yet it would have communicated so little. The fact that it was cold that night was relevant. There's more to the story. I don't know how much he would care to corroborate. But it was, as a whole, persuasive to me. He addressed things that were important to me, and pointed me to the Bible for solutions, advice, etc). I could very easily turn some of these abstract sentences into concrete observations that would put you in the time and place of the setting. I'm not sure how much is needed, or how deep the interest would be, beyond what's already been said. Here's an image: it was at night, in winter. I was under a tree. I had a mop of thick, dark hair at the time. I was wearing a black leather coat and, if memory serves, black pants or jeans. It was Dec. 26, 1986, if I recall correctly. We were on City Island, a small island that is technically part of Bronx county. It was already cold, but because we were on an island, all breezes were sea breezes. The wind chill was not funny. Word Wolf wasn't wearing his coat. And it was a long talk. It's a cool story (no pun intended). The idea that there was something supernatural to kick it off...? To me, it fed the notion that our encounter was no coincidence. It was what God wanted. And I desperately wanted to know what God wanted. JavaJane asked for stories. "God got me in" "God got me out" is not a story. That's why I asked Allan to expand on the comment. My comments were not only on topic, but they improved the on-topic quality of someone else's post. Not needed? I beg to differ. Unlike another poster, I did not challenge the truth or premise of Allan's statement. Now, why isn't that other poster being rebuked? I'm just curious.

Not sure what you mean Johniam ? I'm glad for getting into it and I'm doubly glad for getting out lol

God got me involved, my own integrity kept me committed, Dave Lutz, Claudette Royal kept me sane, God got me out.

God would have to be pretty stupid to allow such a thing to happen. I mean, if He knew that there are people who would believe, but kept them out of heaven because of a church's marketing strategy, that would be pretty darned evil. I see this as evidence that these people didn't really trust God (or have the slightest idea what they were talking about. Or both).

Not all are creeps. Some have held fast to their connection with the Holy Spirit. There were some wonderful ones then, and by and large from what I have seen, those who went through the fire, with their Holy Spirit connection in tact, are more kind, more tenderhearted, more sub-servient (serving beneath the Lord) than ever. Kit

It always seemed to me that people were placed in positions of authority who were stunningly inept when it came to ministering to and counselling God's people. The very useful phrase "I have no idea" never entered their minds, much less came out of their mouths. How can an individual who has been taught to regard psychology as a devil spirit filled voodoo form determine that his lamb would be better served by seeing a shrink than by being told "renew your mind"? Unfortunately, some of these souls fit the description of those whom Jesus said would be better off having a millstone tied around their necks and being cast into the sea. Myself, I don't believe there should be criteria for prayer. If someone asks me to pray, I'll pray. I don't ask them if they are believing. I don't ask if they are Christians, Muslims, Buddists, whatever. There is no application form to fill out to get on my prayer list. But then, I am just a humble peon. WG

The only time the Bible tells you not to pray for someone is if he's committed the "sin unto death." The "clergyman" in question is a schmuck. George

The only people 'worthless' are the ones that won't help. They are, indeed, worthless for helping you with your issue. As to why, I think we'll never know. It could be that the clergy in question was afraid, was uncomfortable with the situation, or was having a personal faith issue and doubted the benefit of prayer. This really brings up a bigger issue. How effective was TWI leadership at counseling and providing help and support to those who were less able and less fortunate than the rank-and-file paying followers? I'd say not. From VPW down, the philosophy was to take the class, read the books, read the Word and your problems would go away. This philosopy certainly maximized the cashflow to TWI, but it also neglected the whole concept of Christian charity and left lots of people behind. Add to that the fact that much of the latter leadership had neither the inclination or the born people skills needed for effective counseling. I realize all you asked for was prayer. Nonetheless, I think it all runs back the the same root. The lack of Christian charity and the inability/nondesire to help people outside of the TWI paradigm.