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Thankfully, our two boys never had to run the gauntlet of classes and twi-indoctrination where there is NO LIGHT at the end of such striving. Where would our lives be today if we'd kept prevailing (cough, cough) in twi's cornfield? As we were exiting, my Region coordinator smugly told me that Martindale was going to assign me to the Presidents' Cabinet at HQ. Wowsers. I am SO GLAD that we never got pulled back into that snare again. The micromanagement, the monitoring, no life to call your own......and what about our boys? Looking back, I shudder to imagine how things would have turned out. Would twi have allowed my oldest son the time and space to study and excel in high school? in college? in medical school? More than likely, there would have been corps grads along the way to browbeat and belittle his "secular" studies. What about the guilt that builds inside from such manipulation? Heck, I've read articles that the suicide rate amongst medical students is very high.....let alone a student who graduates #1 and gets the chancellor award in a class of 300+ medical students. Thank God my son was far removed from twi by then. On one hand, twi boasts of "believing" to live the more abundant life......YET, they demean THE YEARS OF DEDICATION AND ACTION that it takes to get from point A to point B. Are the directors and corps grads THAT clueless? Are they so regimented in lockstep loyalty that they cannot see their demented logic? Sure, Dr. Carol-yn R@wlins was committed to twi.....BUT she had made her journey and reputation years before hearing pfal. Are all those innie kids going to follow in the path of brian moneyhands or j2p2? The gauntlet of classes and indoctrination......I remember. I was in college when I started thru this gauntlet. Month after month, the leadership was lining up ANOTHER class for us pfal grads to take. They were poking and prodding us onward. Don't look back. And, twig after twig, they'd end it with a plug for going wow ambassador. Go and grow with God. Subtle, slick indoctrination. And, even though I decided to give 'a year to God' as a wow, I had every intention of finishing college. But the seduction of twi's indoctrination had a way of subverting my soul. Why give heed to secular learning when God has/had a much higher calling for your life? Go Corps. Looking back, I see whole swaths of corps grads whose lives have been upended, divorced and destroyed. Dozens and dozens of my fellow corps have run the gauntlet and succumbed to defeat. Heck, look at martindale, the corps mascot. Where is HE today? Divorced. Devoured. Dethroned. WARNING: Run the gauntlet at your own risk. .

On another note, being caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air clearly means what it says and says what it means. Altitude cannot be ignored in the context. Mike, Wierwolfs books do not contain purposefully constructed grammer that contain esoteric secrets when worked further. The collaterals are a hodge podge collection of his early sermons, and of course a smattering of material taken from all over the place. Way publications, along with presidents publications have worked for years to smooth out error and contradiction. Surely, if vp writings were god breathed God would have worked in all these spirit filled editors to preserve every jot and tittle. Dont ya think?

I agree that it is "garbage" insofar that it is propaganda. But I think it does have a certain value: it's a good case study on VPW's sick thinking (and lack thereof) and a red flag about the dangers of cults, showing people with a story (instead of a dry explanation) about how cults reinforce their beliefs by spinning their own closed-group fantasy that, to them, makes sense. On a personal note, psychologically it's weird for me to read it because part of my recruitment episode is in that book told by my 19-year-old self. For my daughter, it's a window into her parents' former lives (her dad is in the book, too) showing her our idealism and misplaced trust in VP. It shows his manipulative practices, delusions, egomania, false humility, and narcissism (and other things too many to list here). Just my 2 cents ...

We may never know (unless someone knew him right when he arrived on-grounds or before) if lcm was into that before he lived on-grounds. We DO know that he adapted everything vpw said as descending from God Almighty-which resulted eventually in his ousting, court case, and de facto breakdown. Anyone who takes vpw's words as some sort of godly utterance is setting himself up for a sad life.

that does say something about the stifling environment in any of TWI's programs that were supposedly a way to accelerate your spiritual growth. people always fared a lot better directing their own journey.

Twinky, you are so right!! I never understood why TWI wasted the talents of its people. I know back in 1979, my WOW Branch Leader, got upset with me when I told him I was leaving IL, and moving back to New York State to attend college. Many WOWs did stay in their area after their year was up. But I knew that Lincoln had freed the slaves, and I wanted my freedom after the rigors of my year in the field. My Branch Leader was ticked that I was leaving, and made sure that he put pressure on me to stay. A few months after I left, I found discovered that many of the Wows still in the area, were not doing well. I blossomed once I got to college. I am thankful for listening to the small voice in my head, and not the Branch Leader's.

With a broad topic, there's room for side-discussions that are still on-topic.

While that might apply to some things, it would be a blanket statement (not to mention less than kind, unfair, judgmental, dishonest, or even cruel) to say it was true of every doctrine or practice that he taught or lived. (Not that I think you or anyone else said or meant that, I'm just sayin'.) The difficulty always resides in honestly separating the good from the bad.

I think what I was trying to say this morning is that we are all indeed responsible for our actions, but I think we are responsible for our reactions as well. We interact with people who have been affected differently by their life's experiences, not just during their time in TWI, but since then as well. As someone who escaped without pain, who am I to judge someone who was affected more deeply than I? Who am I to judge someone who has not yet worked through the pain, who has yet to "let it go," as we were so often admonished? It all ties in together. I asked about Corps as victims or oppressors, but I said nothing about those victimized or oppressed BY Corps. Perhaps some discourtesy is understandable when it comes to people who have yet to work through their anger at being the victim of TWI. That doesn't excuse anything, but it does help explain it. Or am I off base?

......... But you could return to your old community if you were from an elite group that was influential or likely to bring in big money or bring in "big" names or you were part of one of the families that were highly connected in TWI. There was always a trophy mentality in The Way. "If we could just get (big sports/music/film star) to take the class, people will be lining up to sign The Green Card." It's a popular sales technique. We see it all around us. Some big name, popular star uses a particular product so "it must be good". They got special treatment in The Way. It was part of the marketing plan.

Responding to this: "I am quite certain this forum thread will be offensive to some (depends on your circle quad) because some folks out there held corp folk in highest esteem (in some ways I still do) and some loathe corp folk just like I do. What I like most about corp folk is that mostly but not absolutely can validate the teachings of vpw and that includes all the things he took from folks like Bullinger, etc. but you would have to post on the doctrinal forum to do that which seems below some corp folk level. Yes, I recently learned about levels here on GSC, I was elated to learn I was down there in doctrinal being spoon fed, I am ignorant having not sat at the feet of the master so ask and listen on the most stupid things I am allowed to ask; guess I caught the elevator. You see, one of the primary things a person leaving twi wants to know is what is crap and what was true." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was never in the Corps. I was in a program called FellowLaborers. FellowLaborers, for those who don't know, was sometimes referred to as the bastard stepchild of the Corps. We were in-rez at Limb Hq for 2 years and followed the same set of principles as the Way Corps. We lived communally in a block of rental townhouses. (~50 participants/8 townhouses) One of the major differences between the Corps and FellowLaborers was that we were NOT allowed to have sponsors. We had to hold down full time secular jobs, in addition to our duties as FellowLaborers, and pay our own way. We had a housing fund, which covered rent and utilities, a "Manna" fund to cover the cost of our food co-op (can't pay=can't eat), a "household fund", which covered the cost of incidentals for our townhouses (6 to a townhouse), such as toilet paper, dish soap and various other exciting things. We also had personal expenses such as laundry, personal clothing, gasoline and the like. We had to ABS and were technically required to sponsor someone in the Corps. (I say technically because no one ever had much left over for such a requirement so it was virtually winked at if someone couldn't cover their pledge.) OK, with that out of the way, here's my point. People who weren't in the program seemed to think we were being exposed to some kind of in-depth Biblical insight, studying the meat of the word and all that kind of jazz. Well, the truth is, we probably read the Bible even less than you folks in the local twigs. Who had time? We were too busy weeding our communal garden, making mayonnaise from scratch or mixing huge batches of familia. We had no time to spend on any "in-depth" research. We read and reread and re-reread the same old stuff everybody else read (blue book, PFAL collaterals,etc) When we had our weekly teaching night, it was hit or miss on subject matter and usually pretty much focused on how much we had "screwed up" the previous week. We were never quite good enough. We weren't special. We weren't elite. People in our hometowns may have thought we were but, truly, we were not. We were just a misguided bunch of schmoes, trying to make it from one day to the next, with precious little time or wakefulness to ever look at the bigger picture. I can't speak for the Corps experience. I suspect there are fundamental similarities. So, please, stop thinking program participants have an inside scoop and can bring a more profound and scholastic understanding to the discussion, especially on doctrinal issues. Some can, of course. But, that's because of what they have to offer as individuals, not because the programs made them excel. I hope that made some sense.

If 'Calling him everynight' wasn't enough..then she visited him every weekend ... wowza That's quite the committed individual to Wierwille. What kind of life did she have? Man oh man...I can hardly handle reading this stuff...I'm almost ready to hurl chunks. --> I'm so embarrased I even endorsed this book at one time in my life --> What dillusion was I under?