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The church I'm involved with is big time into helping people get ahead...they've bought people cars, helped them with business start ups etc....bless and be blessed is one of their beliefs...I guess THAT's what ' practise believing to bring abundance to you and the church should really mean ?!'

Wow! I was in TWI from 1978-1988, and I never knew HQ to ever help anyone at all! Never!

TLC, I found this by just putting the name Johniam quoted in Google search box: http://stlouisbiblefellowship.net/ But I suspect it might be some other organization. Doesn't look Geerite. Johniam - I'd really have doubts about hanging out with a Geerite group. After the ***disgusting*** and belittling way he treated the European believers when he'd been exiled out of the USA, and the devastation that he caused at HQ, I simply do not think the man can be trusted. His ego is so huge that ... well, faith can move mountains. But it doesn't move CG. His ego must be much bigger than a mountain.

Pretty cool illustration of how donations should be used to help meet peoples needs. I was in twi from 1996 to 2008. ANY and ALL donations went to HQ. Money needed within the regions was allocated by HQ and sparingly at that. Twi hoards money for the sheer greed of it. Barely any monetary compensation is sent to non-salaried way corps to cover expenses incurred while doing ministry business. Those who ask for money are heavily discouraged from doing so by their limb or region leadrship. The bone heads running the show at HQ figure theyve taught people how to fish instead of giving them the fish they need. Law of believing / tithing /abs / plurality giving. Sink or swim in other words. The Way International is highly reprobate when it comes to using donations to help those in need.

I can. The fellowship I attend is part of the St. Louis Bible Fellowship. I've been told that back in the 80s 85% of abs went to hq and 15% stayed in the limb. We do the opposite. In 2006 there were a bad series of storms here and we were without electricity for 8 days. It happened in July when the temp was 100 degrees or so. Pretty much everybody on our block had to waste food. Some of us had freezers full of food. What do you suppose it smelled like with all those trash dumpsters at the curb. We spent 5 of the 8 nights in motels. We also received a check for several hundred dollars taken out of abs. I'm guessing we weren't the only believers who got that. Never got anything like that from twi. There are places in scripture where believers helped other believers in need. (Acts6:1-6, Acts11:27-30)

Ahh, but here's the rub. In Way World, having such thoughts would be considered thinking evil of your brother, a sign of spiritual weakness and unrenewed mind. You wouldn't want anyone to think you're spiritually weak, now, would you?

HERE

Here ya go, OS.

I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof. His theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fraudulent or a century out dated, although none of that is surprising since his credentials were artificial and he didn't allow review of his work and he didn't cite his sources. He was a phony though and through.

Don't know if you will remember me....I was on about 13 years ago, then not until now. I started out as chinson ... then married Stevelw! .... and kinda dropped off the map. Update: kids are all grown, still very happily married to Stevelw! , got a masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and am now writing my dissertation for a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Working as a mental health therapist and loving life! Wanted to get back to "the spot" cuz so much of my life was made better by the loving people on this site and the support, friendship, and occasional kick in the butt... So...Hello Again (music from the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond swells)

Greetings, ImLikeSoConfused! I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent the intervening time in physical and occupational therapy, without access to the internet until last Friday. One of the things I've gained from the experience is a partial appreciation of how many people really do love me, including many of my fellow posters here at GSC. There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching draws the auditor's attention to something. Teaching purports to explain the nuts and bolts of how a thing works. Wierwille preached many truths that were straight out of the Bible. Otherwise, no one would have paid any attention to anything he was saying. But in his teaching, Wierwille often directly contradicted the very truth he was preaching at the time. Many people who took to heart the things Wierwille preached got the results that God's Word promises. You yourself know all too well what can happen to the people who take to heart the things Wierwille taught... delusion... being played. One of Wierwille's greatest sins was to attribute the credit for the good things happening in peoples' lives to himself and his classes rather than to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The flip side of that same coin was to attribute peoples' failures to their lack of believing rather than to the flaws of his teaching. This is the main reason I don't recommend Wierwille's writings to anyone else. It's just too much work... confusing work at that... separating the truth from the error in PFAL, etc. If you think one of your friends or acquaintances could benefit from a truth of God's Word, then simply speak to them the truth that you know. You don't have to explain the whole Bible to them. You couldn't if you wanted to. Nobody can explain the whole Bible, and ANYONE who tells you otherwise is trying to pull a con. No legitimate scholar would make such a claim. Love, Steve

My advice? Throw everything out and find better material for spiritual growth.

I was outintexas years ago. I lost my password and since I've been in Ohio nearly six years I just started over with a new account. I was in twi 25 yrs mostly as a low level peon, out since 1999. I'm outandabout's "little" brother. Glad to be back and glad I'm no longer stringing chairs.

I have to put myself in the "not sure" camp. Remember, now, the question is NOT whether you believe there is an "afterlife". (Yes, I know the term isn't strictly Biblical but it spans a variety of belief systems and is widely understood to mean that dimension which lies beyond the moment when we shed our mortal coil.) I used to think I was sure of that aspect when I still bought into the whole concept of speaking in tongues being the proof, etc. It must have been in about 1976,77,78...not sure... a group of Way Corps stayed with FellowLaborers one weekend on their way to some work assignment. They were all fired up about some new teaching that was being done for the Corps about eternal rewards and crowns or trophies at the Bema or some such thing. They spoke in a highly competitive manner about who was going to get he biggest and best and most bejeweled crowns. It really creeped me out, especially because no one else seemed to be bothered by it. I had never thought of it that way before. To my thinking, up to that point, you gave of yourself because it was what you chose in your heart to do. Doing the "right" thing, simply because you perceived it to be the right thing, not because you expected remuneration. In fact, my Mother, whom some of you knew personally, taught us when we were little kids, that to give because you expected something in return was a form of selfishness. I mean, isn't that why we all joined together for the FellowLaborer experience? Apparently not! That was a shocker. So, here I am in the sixth seventh decade of my life and it seems like just yesterday that I heard my Mother imparting these lessons in living. I like to think I would continue to try my best to live by The Golden Rule, regardless of what may or may not lie beyond.... and not beat myself up so bad when I fail to do so. For me, that last part has always been the toughest.

No...Waysider is asking that if there were no promise of eternal life, would one still be a Christian. Who is going to say that they won't love their neighbor or offer forgiveness? Nevetheless, I don't think Waysider was being glib in posting the song. A lot us had said if there were no resurrection of the dead then, "...let us eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we shall die." I went as far as to say that while I may try to be a hedonist, I would more likely be the guy crashing everyone's party going, "What's the use? Everything is meaningless!" Waysider's song was simply illustrating in a slightly humorous way what a lot of people feel. That is, "no resurrection...no meaning". Not that the song is hymn or anything.

I can see the benefits of Christianity without an afterlife-- Whether there is or is not an afterlife, The hope of an afterlife can be uplifting and motivating in and of itself... I would never be a part of another TWI type group but even if it had nothing at all to do with an afterlife, Christianity still has many many beneficial aspects to it .