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skyrider, thanks for sharing all of this. 1989 was the year TWI sucked me in, although I'd taken PFAL in 1985. I was advanced class grad twice over by mid-90s, and the later 90s were such a nightmare. all the M&A, and I was living in a pretty remote area and was semi-M&A myself for a period of time where I was required to do that horrible schedule, but mine was in 15 minute increments and I had to write a weekly report on how well I stuck to my schedule. and I was scared the entire time... of not renewing my mind, of the adversary killing my kids because of my mistakes (that were blown all out of proportion, all the way to HQ and back to closed-door meetings where I was worn down and coerced into consent) and I came to doubt every thought in my head. they took away my autonomy, completely. it was this group of people here at GSC who helped me finally leave in 2006. I could not have done it without you. I had nothing and no-one, and it took a long time to heal. I've been mostly absent from the café the last few years still dealing with fall-out from the cult years, but also to a large extent rebuilding a better life, one true to myself. I've been compiling things into book form for my kids because I'll eventually pass on, and I feel like my kids deserve some explanation of those years, and it's still really difficult to put it into perspective, so I've been lurking here a bit more lately. this thread stirred up a lot of memories. I remember when the announcement came down that the L people were going to take over your job. it felt horrible and wrong, and I stopped trusting everyone, so I was alone for all those years. I was conditioned not to trust outsiders, and I knew I couldn't trust insiders. gods, it was so horrible. when I left in 2006, I was so scared. I was scared of my children getting killed for my waywardness, and I was scared of getting phone calls and visits because I'd heard so many times that's what you do when you don't see someone at twig... but in the end all I got was an email. I was too poor to tithe much, so I don't think they cared much that I left. it still took years for me to learn how to make my own decisions again. I'm so happy I'm not in it anymore.

Thanks for the information, Rocky. Interesting reading and listening. I haven't been on GS for quite awhile. Peace, homies! I was surprised my dancing Calvin dude is gone. I must have missed an upgrade. Not to worry, Calvin is always *here*. Got a heads up to this topic sent to me by a friend-o. This has been a developing story for several months, first heard about some of this movement a year or so ago. But if they don't land in front of my face I don't hear about this kind of stuff. DWBH! Yes, indeed. I see Ed and Jackie Horney there. Knew them back in Miami, they were both coming to our fellowship way back when, when they were dating. I love them, although I haven't really seen them for many years and have only friended Ed on farcebake recently. I'm glad they've separated themselves from the Way, any degree of separation will benefit them. They, as all of us, deserve a lot better than what's being funneled out of The Way Nash these days. But true - all of these people were active in the past 30 - 40, 50 years (dang, we're getting old aren't we???). I find it amazing they can suddenly be so critical the last few months, or years, of policies and actions that have been so for decades and that they themselves embraced and participated in. Y'know? Watzupwiddat? That business about the Way employee who was scheduled to teach a SNS and was pulled the last minute.....oh, the horror, it wasn't even announced, a new teacher took the podium, no explanation and worst of all, everyone from his domain area that had dialed in didn't know what was going on! Oh, the confusion they must have felt! As if that's a new scenario in the Way......? That kind of thing has happened and most assuredly continues to happen ALL THE TIME. the Way's byline should be "No, We Don't Answer Questions".....they never tell anyone anything about what they're doing and they're constant press-release communications amount to "You're ALWAYS welcome at the Way!", which is an english translation of a greek phrase that originally meant "Fu ck You". So, agreed, they're apparently nuts, damaged goods, dented cans, smiling icons of a lost race of people once thought to dwell in central Ohio. Museum artifacts. We be pretty far from any concerns as to what they're "revive and restore" business will be about but I'm sure it will be taking donations soon enough. Take care, my friends! Jesus is the way, the truth and the life! He was dead and lives again and God forgives and saves to the uttermost any and all who come to Him through Christ. Reckon yourself dead to sin and alive in Christ and enjoy that "new life" smell all the time!! You deserve it! Peace!! Well, that's about it. This is my bi-centennial post. And speaking of donations, I know you're probably wondering how to show your gratitude for this enlightening presentation. I get it and rather than complicate things, I've set up a number of ways for you to give back, and all for your convenience. 1. Use the "socks paypal" account to contribute to this important work. It's easy - go to paypal, find the "MoneyIsLikeLoveButCrisper" account and choose an amount. Think big. God doesn't like little thinkers. 2. Kickstart donations - yep, you can fund my next Big Idea. And I've got some great ones! Get involved! It's not going to fund itself! 3. Send those love dollars directly to me, socks. Use my email account: TakeMyMoneyPleaseSocks@ReviveAndRestoreMySockDrawer.com Peace out!!

Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watching the defendants at the Nurenberg trials lying their sleazy butts off. Where were they 30 fucking years ago?? These self-serving phonies were the Goehrings, the Eichmanns, the Goebbels, the Speers, the Himmlers of dictor paul's Aryan Nazi cult. I remember some letter writings back in 1986 and1987. I remember these same little Nazi asskissers congratulating themselves over and over for coming to the aid of da forehead throughout the 1990's buying every absurdity he made them believe and thereby carrying out the grand atrocities he devised in his pathologically disturbed mind and corrupt soul. NO ONE HELD A GUN TO ANY OF YOUR HEADS YOU CHICKENSHIT SELF-SERVING PIMPS AND WHORES. I remember old Boob himself so strung out on self-pity and anti-depressants that all the little crybaby could do was sit in meetings with his head on the table crying the crocodile tears of a zombie-wayfer. Horney sounds like a tape of da dancing president. There must not remain a single coherent, non way-brained braincell left in that clanging cranium. And Funnyboy Fort. Get em laughing on the way to the Gulags or push em into the gas chambers, l'il standup wannabe, Mikey the trustee's kid. I won't even get started on their perky, cutesy, smarmy, little slut wives. What a ship of fools. The combined courage of the cowardly lion and a combined IQ of 70. They ALL KNEW the truth about dictor paul, Rosie, da forehead and Donna, coward, ding dong, townsends, cummins, geer, finnegan, lynn, wrenn, et al, as well as their own filth over these many decades now. I was there you jerks. I KNOW! YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW. BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST KNOWS. And he will surely say to all of you hypocrites and spiritual cadavers, "I never knew you!". And, certainly, and obviously, you have never known Him! Selah!

indeed. the therapist me and my kids saw right after said it takes about 5 years of therapy before people are comfortable being in control of their own lives. I found that to be true. prison inmates have the same problem after a while, which is why so many of them commit crimes so they can go back. it's acquired helplessness. there are so many choices to make everyday and when you've been conditioned not to make or even see the choice, it's completely overwhelming.

No pictures necessary. R@mona Bid0n was named in lawsuits and documentation described her as a "procuress". Meaning to spell it out she would be the one sent out to "recruit" young women for sexual escapade threesomes with Martind@le. It's the same woman. She remarried and used her knowledge of all the stuff she did to get her and new husband a fulltime Corpse position on the field - part of RFR's bribery promotion practice - extreme obedience gets rewarded, any inkling of dissent gets you shipped to Siberia. In fact, although I don't know the later Corpse members of R&R - the 31st Corpse folks, I will say that everyone up there on the stage for that R&R meeting should probably disqualify themselves for leadership due to their own personal escapades and coverup of escapades. I mean I read an article about that one super-church evangelical guy in Colorado a few years back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Church_(Colorado_Springs,_Colorado) 10,000 members. The leader Ted Haggard was busted paying for a male escort for over 3 years and doing methamphetamine. 6 figure settlement with another person this guy was having an inappropriate relationship with. You would think a person's lifestyle would actually prevent them from certain professions. But no. The wife writes a book "Why I Stayed", they take a year off with a 6 figure salary paid for by the founding church, some nice rest and relaxation, then they are off starting up another church. So I guess that would be the church for you if you are gay, have a meth habit, and all of that is a secret life where you appear as a family man? Some people just picked the wrong d@mn profession, and can't come to grips with it.

Way prod went bad the minute dictor paul fired Heefner and Doop. That would make it Spring, 1972. They dragged PDSTRO out of NY and Selah from CA, and NY that same year, brought them all to NK, and put them under the new Way Prod Coordinator, Ted Ferrell. But, Ted was an old time "road hooker".....a 50's style, Elvis rock'n'roller, and he loved music. He loved god too.....we all thought we did. The next year, 1973, the 4th corpse included what was to become the first way prod cast, and also, Joyful Noise. Imho, those were the golden years of way prod, 1972-1979. Once Rosie the Riveter got in there with Bob Winegarner, and that god awful and totally scripted "High Country Caravan", Country Gospel, smarmy, gooey, crap.....way prod died. The Victims, Braindead, one insult after another all pushed to the front by Rosie in her faithful service to the moggie. The day the music died, and innocent and intense love and praise for Jesus Christ, through song, and dance, and the arts, died at TWI. It only went downhill from there. It became the court jester and ego-on-display for the Kings and Princes of the new Babylon. The witless whims of a deeply disturbed 3-string jock with the brain of a lava rock and the personality of a sea slug. Long winded, overproduced melodramas by finnegan and of course spirit in the athletes. Empty Towers of pride and false machismo. Wasn't the planes that got em. It was Wierwille who killed the music!

It was featured on a show called "The Soup" and was a source of ridicule. (It deserved it.)

DWBH, I'm picking you don't like my Corps Coords very much... ah, shame. /sarc/ I'll PM you in a few hours when I get back home again.

In my opinion, it went downhill pretty fast, as soon as Wierwille saw that he could use it as a marketing tool. As early as the mid 1970's, creativity had been replaced with marketability.

Control, control, control. A Corps woman I knew wrote a song which she used to sing at our twig. It was a nice song, good, and we all liked it. Maybe she sent it in to HQ, maybe she sang it there, I don't know. Next thing I knew, M1ke Mart!n was singing this song from the stage at RoA, but the words had been changed slightly and a verse added. It became "his" song and I don't know if the Corps woman got any credit; I think she might have said it was part of Way Prods. She bravely said that the alterations had made it a better song, but even then I got the impression that she was being gracious about the hijacking of her song, and wasn't wholly happy about it.

And..........Tom M1tchell was attempting to talk to his wife Ramona so that they'd leave hq-compound together. Well, Craig was in a meeting and got wind of it.....and he immediately sent messenger-boy Bill Green3 to get Ramona and tell her "....don't leave, Craig wants to meet with you." [Craig told Bill.....you married them, you therefore have entre into their lives.] From what I remember.......Craig relayed to Ramona that if she left with Tom, her life was in danger. Craig convinced her that Tom was irrational and open to devil-spirit possession......thus, staying "at headquarters, with the household" was the right choice. [And therefore.......their sex romps could continue.] Ramona stayed. Tom left hq........and soon thereafter, went out into the backyard and "blew his brains out." And now..........messenger-boy Bill Gre3ne's son, Chandler is twi's corps coordinator.

I hear ya, Potato. Regrettably your story is faaaarrrrr to common to many of us here. So glad you are recovering your mind and ability to make decisions. Takes years to get beyond the abuse inflicted on submitted minds.

Any narcissist who finds other people getting "his" spotlight- especially one who finds their skill in an area exceeds his. Like, say, he's an amateur musician who can't sing and they're professionals.

Grace.......well, since you've taken such an interest in my 1981 deprogramming experience, I decided that a response was in order. Sure, at the time.....I was defiant and determined to break free from these deprogrammers, thugs, and my parents so that I could reunite with my fiancé and twi. It was heart-wrenching to have to choose "one side" and not the other. I couldn't have both. Forgiveness came relatively easy for me regarding my parents..... My parents deeply loved me and were trying, as best they could, with this "deprogramming intervention." They believed, from what they'd heard and read, that once I graduated from the corps, I would be "gone forever." They were willing to spend another $16,000 or so.......to deprogram my fiancé, too. In their mind, this was an intervention.......what other avenues were available to helping extricate a loved one from a cult? The depth of love my parents went thru to do this, especially my Mom, is a testament to parental love and family. My parents welcomed me with open arms.......WHENEVER my wife and I visited them. Yesterday.......was Mother's Day. My mother passed away two years ago. I spent the day in solemn thankfulness for the unconditional love she lived. She went "far beyond her comfort zone" to try and help her youngest son out of a cult. Thankfully, I had 10 years with Dad (he died in 2008) and 17 years to reconcile my relationship with Mom. Forgiveness? It was easy.......looking thru the eyes of parental love.

Ewwwwww! Bolshevik! You gotta give a warning and a barfbag before posting something like that! The 6th Church of The Plagiarist carries on! How freaking noble. LOL! Just what the world needs. One more self-deluded, self-obsessed, and self-appointed "biblical scholar", pedantic "teacher", "carrier of the light" sent by gawd to be "a gift from Him to you!"......LOL! Boy am I glad gawd made this succession thing so easy! Who knew???

You mention you've read some posts here over the years. May I ask what subjects they involved?

Uh, I have a question touchofspice. Are you really "out" of the way cult?

No More Twi-Policy Additions: I will NOT be adding any more long-form "twi-policy positions" to this thread......links (maybe), but no more full-length documented forms and dissecting their component parts. All of that is just "too much in the weeds" and puts ugly policies in the spotlight. My purpose is to expose the personal, destructive nature of the beast......and spear it to death.

Dallas, Again: When this letter arrived in the mail, I knew what it said....even before opening it. Once again, I was "invited" to attend the Advanced Class Special in Dallas, November 1996. And, again......be Mrs. Wierwille's escort. Well, I guess that I must have done a fair job, because no one else was assigned to it. That spoke volumes. My wife would, once again, be working in the green room. Another Thanksgiving weekend with the "cult family." It had been 20 years since I'd been home for Thanksgiving.....around my parents' table, eating a good home-cooked meal. Growing up in a hunting family......one year at Thanksgiving with aunts and uncles, we had turkey, duck, goose and quail. Now, THAT was a wild game meal to behold. Most always, we'd head out the door around 7am and hunt pheasant for about three hours Thanksgiving morning. Then, we'd field-dress the birds and enjoy the fresh pheasant. Those days were long gone.......now I spent Thanksgiving dressed in a suit and my butt in a chair. I must have been insane.......

WAP Class: Eve a Lesbian? Martindale broke new ground in the wap class when he taught on eve and the serpent in the garden. It was a classic WTF-question that slapped everyone in the face. What? There is probably stuff buried in the doctrinal basement here at GSC, if you care to go digging. But......there is this link Eve a lesbian? This one segment of the class drowned out everything else. It was so "out there"......I certainly had no desire to explain it, let alone endorse it. It just was. Martindale reiterated this "biblical depth" in Genesis on a couple of corps meetings afterwards but......I wasn't buying it. As these wap classes went forth.......the rippling effect of this "lesbian issue" caused a silent dissent. Anything further on this issue....will not be coming from me. I had no desire to explore it....then or now. More later........ .

One way to highlight the schedule during this time is to take a look at all the meetings we were required to hold. I was reminded of something Leah Remini said on one of the Scientology expose shows, how Scientology keeps people so busy they don't have time to think. Sunday - fellowship - or a Branch/Limb meeting or STS hookup Monday - fellowship coordinators Tuesday - fellowship Wednesday - Corps Night Thursday - fellowship Friday - outreach events (sometimes can take this night off) Saturday - branch coordinators once a month face to face with Limb. Limb had similar Region requirements As you can see, there is never a complete 24 hours to schedule downtime, you are always being pulled one way or another. How would this affect an individual? No time to think any thoughts but the party line, too busy implementing things to step back and reflect. New policies would have you compromise a little more than the last one did. A counselor pointed out to me because i couldn't see it for myself how each series of things the group would ask us to do is a little more and more of a personal compromise, but in small enough increments that we wouldn't notice. Then one day you wake up with an identity crisis and wonder how you got all the way over there.

Praying In the New Cult Year: During my corps indoctrination......er, training we were instructed to be back at Emporia by 5pm December 30th. The reason was simple.....December 31st was dr. wierwille's birthday and homage was due. This gave us one day in preparation to gear up for the big night. So, the trained corps went forth to extend this homage throughout the land.......to adv class grads, and down to the newbie recruit. New Year's Eve was "How Great Thou Art, Dr. Wierwille Night".........and the cult prayed to their idol. Couldn't we just skip this one time......and head to the local bar for a Jack and Coke? More than likely, my disgust for the new year's eve ritual came from the corps coordinators........the adulation slobber-fest was surreal. And, those "lift lists?" Why was wierwille at the top? Was he first? The most important? If the way ministry was a tree and the trunk went down to the roots......wasn't wierwille down somewhere in the dirt? I mean, really, if we're going to stay true to "the way tree" symbolism, the leaves were at the top........wierwille should be buried in the dirt, no? But yeah.....if twi was a pyramid, then wierwille should be on top. For over two decades, I was indoctrinated with this adulation/idolatry. At the time, I didn't know about his plagiarism, drunkenness or sexual predation.....but now I know. And, yet........each year, at new year's eve, I still am trying to delete "that programming" in my head. Maybe, someday it'll happen....where my mind doesn't register one cognitive thought of the man, wierwille, on new year's eve. But not yet.........in three days, December 31st will mark the 100th year of his birth. I'm going to have a few drinks early that night.....and drown those memories in Jack and Coke. .

One more side-topic.......before getting back to timeline. ~~~~~~~ Funerals: It comes with the territory: There are just some things that you cannot plan into your monthly calendar......and funerals are one of them. For clergy, they come with the territory of helping others. They are untimely matters that add abruptness, inconvenience, necessity, sorrow and devastation.....depending who it is and who it affects. For me, it was a time to stop all else and embrace those who were hurting. Each funeral service is unique......the deceased have left love-imprints on the hearts of those who sorrow. A string of significant funerals had found their way to my door: Craig Martindale's grandmother ...... March 1994 Connie Panar3llo's mom................... Sept 1996 John Reyn0lds's mom.......................May 1997 Rod & Jo's twig coord, Peggy...........Sept 1997 When Peggy died, her brother in Florida was on probationary status in lieu of twi-mandates. Bob Moneyhands phoned me to let me know, in his stern opinion, that this guy should NOT be allowed at the funeral or around the believers. This brother would be calling me within the hour, he said. And.....he did. We talked for about 5 minutes and I told him.....absolutely, he should come and attend his sister's funeral and call me when he arrived in OKC. The days passed quickly as we scurried around with all the details of the funeral. Four days later, and this brother called me. He had arrived in town. We made every effort to ease his depth of hurt and sorrow. After the funeral, I invited him to the limb home to join several of us at supper, snacks, a movie and/or just hang out. He nearly cried when I offered this invitation. Nothing was really planned.....just kickin' back and living life was on the evening's agenda. Keeping. It. Simple. And. Loving. -------before leaving that evening, this brother gave me a big bear hug. He left OKC a changed man.

I'd like to join in on these thank-yous as well. Especially to Pawtucket for making this important and necessary site available. The good it does for many is clear and provable!

wow ... what sweet humility here (don't want to embarrass you by that ... just writing what I saw/felt as I read this!) There's something so damn attractive and endearing to me about a humble man! Your wife and you sound like beautiful folks. : ) (I liked the "I started out small -- on vacation, mother's day, etc".!) Funny. Thanks for such refreshing honesty -- great to read! Funny -- I also have shed the twit indoctrination re: homosexuality ... actually, I'm somewhat ashamed I held it for quite a few years. It was so sickeningly judgmental. And when you consider that Twinkle Toes w/ the enormous forehead was a massive adulterer, it really infuriates beyond anything that he led the homo purges and messed up so many people's lives in the process!

Repressed Memory: Now I know why it's taken me all these years to piece this timeline together repressed memory...... I've been blocking out those years of trauma and stress to protect my identity, my sanity. Piecing this timeline together year-by-year......is grueling. It's painful. With each memory, comes more memories.....and I find myself only skimming the high points (ie...the low points) of this turbulent time. I could name names, I could give more examples......but does it really matter? If I hadn't thrown away all my corps notes and way mags.....they would have triggered a mountain of repressed memory. Laced throughout these 174 pages on "About the Way" forum......I've been starting lots of threads, but never connected all those dots. Well, this thread is the concluding summary of nearing 18 years of posting on Waydale/GSC. From my childhood roots to brushing shoulders with all four twi-presidents......1) wierwille, 2) martindale, 3) rivenbark, and 4) JYDL.......I'm connecting the dots. And, still there's more.....that I'm leaving out. My spouse was/is deeply connected in all this, as well. She started working at hq in the fall of 1970. My wife is a corps grad, from an earlier corps than me.....and yes, at this point, I still choose to speak in anonymous terms regarding her involvement. From her years of involvement and insight, I've got dozens and dozens of things I've never posted........yet. Even though I'm well aware that WayGB and dozens of staffers know who I am (and many GSC posters know me as well) .......I still covet internet anonymity. I'm sure many of you feel the same way. But the "trustees" of this evil.......need to be exposed. .

Wierwille Takes Direct Aim: When wierwille steamed with fury......his outcry was a rifle, martindale used a shotgun (or buckshot "scatter-gun"). From my observations, I would say that wierwille was far more selective of his target. With wierwille, any dissent was personal. But wierwille was cunning and crafty.....he didn't unmask this fury to the general public. Except for the occasional advanced class rant, wierwille kept his fury ire directed at corps leadership and rogue clergy in closed-meetings. I witnessed three extreme episodes of rifled-fury as keynoted in this thread.....A Series of Purges To those who've read these accounts, my apologies for the re-iteration......but thought it should be inserted here.

LCM Screaming: Martindale is most noted, far and wide, by his screaming tirades. Whether it was corps night, sunday teachings, or even the wap-class......the man came across as "unhinged." Besides the sex predation, screaming into the microphone was his legacy. He would lose control and rail on a subject for 20 minutes that was irritating him......he claimed it was "spiritual anger." But his scream-fests could be sub-divided: 1989-1992......lcm railed against geer, lynn, cop-outs, those who'd left 1993------>......lcm began railing at those IN twi, corps, staff, those who wouldn't increase commitment It seems to me that the yelling and railing against "the homo infiltration" began, in earnest, around January 1994. The months that followed were a constant barrage of accusations and public labeling so-and-so in corps & staff meetings. Month after month, martindale fumed.......and then, wrote that July 1994 "homo purge letter." So.......he yelled and yelled some more. And,.......following the timeline, A WHOLE YEAR LATER, the 1995 rock of ages, "the homos had infiltrated the roa." Gawd.....where is that elusive manifestation "discerning of spirits" to keep them from ever getting near martindale in the first place? Or, why couldn't martindale (or wierwille) EVER CAST ONE OUT? Where was this prevailing, spiritual power that these mogs wielded? And......connecting the dots, that is why I never believed that the 1995 roa had homo-spirits running everywhere. Nor did I believe that it was the reason why martindale cancelled any future rock of ages. The dead give-away was that first September 1995 corps night.......when martindale spent nearly two hours detailing the financial responsibilities, limits, policies, etc regarding full-time way corps. Finances, finances, finances......and only about ten minutes of the homo/roa ordeal. Martindale's tirades on those corps nights was epic.......... .

Skyrider! Your posts are terrific! Even after all these years, I did not realize you were there until 1998! Your detailed info from the perspective of being a Limb guy during the Okie Dope's Reign of Terror is unique. Therefore, keep em coming! Great documentation from firsthand experience. Accurate, documentable, FACTS about TWIt throughout its various iterations is THE single greatest weapon in their battle to avoid the throes of their inevitable death. The recent posts by you, Chockful, Shortfuse, Krys, Penworks, and many other greasespotters of late, have been the best info on TWIt since the 2007-2010 period IMO. That means tangible damage is being done to the cult of Crotchaven as it prepares to go through the optics of another mantle toss! Some things seem to just refuse to change. Thanks Skyrider for ALL the many hours you have devoted to the mission of this website. Almost 5000 posts! You have helped many brother. The Boss is happy I'm sure. Fuggedabouddit!

Yeah......right about that time, March 1989, my wife and I could have easily stepped off that train. Things were moving quite slowly and the trustees were trying to gain their footing. Our kids were little and we could have faded away without a confrontation.....or backstabbing slander. Hindsight is 20/20.......but THAT would have been a good time for us to have escaped the madness that was to come. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Of course, martindale had to "explain" (i.e. rationalize, misdirect) why he, don and howard went along with geer......they, too, had let their guard down and were tricked by the adversary [a-ha.....here comes the spiritualizing]. Why......Geer had some daimon spirits [and lcm listed several]. AND.......cookie lovest3d, don&howard's secretary, saw, LITERALLY SAW, chris geer's face morph into dr. wierwille. See, those devil spirits will play with you, toy with you.....just to see how much they can get away with. Gawd.......I can almost still hear martindale's voice saying this. Ugh. So, with several weeks of "explanation" to corps and staff......the "Galatian tapes" emerge. Some of those still-loyal "research types" had submitted some of those Greek words [terasso -- sp?....Galatians, ch. 1 ] to add scriptural depth to how folks get agitated, all stirred up and are bewitched. See.....it fits !!! The Galatian tapes are mandatory for the corps and staff. Next, these tapes are a requirement for all field corps and solid advanced class grads. Rename them: Leadership Tapes [sounds much more inclusive.....and seductive, to those who deem themselves as "leaders"]. Schedule weekend in your areas.....take attendance, report back. Martindale was building back his confidence. See....he was adept at teaching on devil spirits. Lcm had danced in The Mog-in-Tights He had taught on "those born of the wrong seed" He had assisted in plenty of adv classes He was #2 prez.....and established how spirits infiltrate Naturally...........the next incremental step was to schedule martindale's NEW (bling, bling) advanced class at the Indiana Campus [1992/93]. Stack the deck.....er, support in his favor: 1) Wayne C. was there for "big" support, 2) in-rez corps to provide labor and zeal, 3) in-house, on campus.....those who came must support twi, those who stayed away caused suspicion, 4) Rah, rah......let's build the ministry again. Small incremental steps..........

I'm curious, did any of those "meaningful, sensible ways to help them improve their relationship with God" include any form of renouncing who he found himself attracted to? I talk with LGBTQ people frequently. I don't presume to know better than they themselves whether they should renounce their identity or to whom they find themselves attracted. I know what projecting is. How sure are you that it applies to me in this situation? Further, nowhere in my previous comments have I supposed to know or infer anything about you other than to critically assess your words. Read those comments carefully (critical thinking and analysis) and you should be able to tell the difference. If you disagree, by all means, (in a PM, rather than derail this thread) let me know specifically where I've erred. In the meantime, as it applies to the subject of this thread, TWI (as an organization/sub-culture), wierwille and martindale (and many more) had serious deficiencies in social and emotional intelligence including but not limited to failing to recognize and/or respect personal boundaries. I'm not projecting here. I'm reflecting back on my history and experience. I can say with confidence that it took me too long after leaving TWI to learn about and begin respecting said personal boundaries. I have forgiven myself. Those problems caused relationship problems for me, some of which have since healed. I maintain that deficiencies in social and emotional intelligence in TWI are why we are here on GSC. If wierwille hadn't been such a psychological basket case, it's likely that the organization he started (if he still would have started it) would not have been quite as problematic (insane).

Thank you SO much for verifying my read of your inherently judgmental comment. "PC" as you use it seems to be nothing more than an excuse to label -- those who treat individuals as actual people who are worthy of dignity -- so that you can continue to justify, puff up your chest and feel righteous in judging them. That's bothersome. This might seem like a tangent and off topic, but it really illustrates quite well the underlying insanity (social mores) of the time frame that is the subject of this thread. Outside of religious dogmatism, those mores have changed. Your post seems also to validate the irritation DWBH has expressed toward other comments you've made which have been read as efforts to justify the teachings and practices of our "dear leader" VeePee and his loyal sycophant Loy C Martindale.

Yeah......but ALL of the purges imposed exclusionary "search and eliminate" missions, didn't they? Debt Purge......it hurt, altered, or eliminated one's desire for home ownership when housing market and purchase desire converged Corps Spouse Purge.....think about all those marriages that were conflicted or damaged from wierwille/martindale bullsh!t mandates Destructive/Harassing/Non-productive Purge....remember martindale's tirade on corps nights/ sts? What kind of evil resides at hq Full-time Corps Purge.....many corps did NOT want to be on twi's payroll; they wanted to keep secular jobs and STILL be active corps Bum's Rush Purge......corps girls, wives AND husbands that were thrown out because of vpw/lcm sexual predation Homo Purge.......and yes, this purging that started surfacing around 1977, or thereabouts ALL these purges were destructive and deeply personal to those involved. Lives were ruined; desires were shattered; futures were destroyed. That's what cults do. .

w/r to PC - political correctness, I personally just feel that more understanding and leeway needs to be given in the areas of identity and attraction. Scientific evidence has shown developmentally that this shows up as early as 6 to 10 years old. And this is shown to be independent of the views and orientation of the parents. That speaks more loudly to me than ignorance with a vein popping out their neck. This leaves the WAP class "research". To me any kind of a New Testament Grace based God is not congruent with a Father that would inflict a cruel trick on someone by creating them with genetic conflicts in identity and attraction to struggle with that places them on a tightrope of teetering over a precipice of being worthy of being executed. Don't know why the Levitical laws would be as such, but there is a lot of wacky stuff in that book with respect to laws. Those are my views, and whether or not they are PC I have not given one iota of thought. I don't mean to derail sky's thread here - but it's happening I think because the Homo Purges were a big part of this time period. Coming to grips with this topic is probably a big deal. .

Nope. Not an effort to be PC on my part. Anyone who knows me in real life knows I don't give a rat's azz about being PC.(Nor did I reference any connection to genetics.) Through the years I have had many friends and coworkers that are either homosexual or transgender. I can assure you they did not all live the same "lifestyle". Ask yourself the question, "What is the heterosexual lifestyle?" There is no answer. Some live a sports centered lifestyle. Some live a music centered lifestyle. Some live a technology centered lifestyle and on and on and on. If someone is heterosexual, it simply means that their sexual attraction is directed at the opposite sex. If they are homosexual, their sexual attraction is directed toward the same sex. People aren't cured of their attraction. They just learn how to repress and deny it. (Think celibacy.) Don't even throw the old devil possession schtick in the mix. We'll be here forever with that one.

PC my foot Death is a choice. We die when we quit believing to live. Childhood is genetic. But children CHOOSE to act like children. And the rod must fix that. Bull crud bull crud bull crud TLC you a diverting from the idea TWI believed there is an absolute right and perfect choice in every second of every mundane situation. Labeling any one choice as a fault allowed them to dismiss all following actions and consequence and assign blame when no fault was even necessary. Red Herring.

Just a side note: The reason some people might find it offensive is because it's not a "lifestyle" any more than being heterosexual is a lifestyle. It's just one element of the individual's whole makeup. If we said a person lives a heterosexual lifestyle, what would that even really mean? Not all heterosexuals live the same lifestyle nor do all homosexuals live the same lifestyle. This is not directed at any one person. I'm only pointing it out because using it in this manner can cause the listener to disengage. Well, at least that's been my experience.