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ILSC: Whether you agree or disagree with schoenheits work the fact is unless you can prove he is wrong then its no different than any other teacher out there, T-Bone: Some of Schoenheit’s work does have issues (stuff that is wrong) – you can read about it in the doctrinal forum; on that thread I pointed out how they deliberately deviated from the Greek text of John 1 STF's REV in doctrinal forum T-Bone: apparently Schoenheit and company think they are free to ignore the rules of grammar, syntax, etc. of biblical Greek so that they can craft a translation that supports their theology. wierwille did that too in his work – you can read about that in Undertow, the author who goes by Penworks when she posts here on Grease Spot was in TWI’s research department and had witnessed first hand the pressure wierwille put on them to twist and re-define words of the biblical Greek to agree with what he taught. Undertow ILSC: who we all have to make a decision to listen to or just follow no one and become an atheist which it seems a lot of ex-way members have become because of one evil person wierwille? T-Bone: You seem to be stuck in an all-or-nothing frame of mind. Where in the Bible does it say a Christian has to listen to or follow someone or else they become an atheist? Seriously, other than Jesus Christ, of course – can you suggest there’s someone else I should listen to and follow? ILSC: makes no sense to lose your faith because of one bad apple. T-Bone: again that's all-or-nothing thinking; I have not lost my faith; is wasn't until after I left TWI that I started to read and understand the simple message of the Bible without looking through wierwille's twisted doctrinal "reading glasses". It's a dangerous thing when a supposedly "christian" organization / followers become so enamored with their leader they put everything he says on par with the Holy Bible, or that the leader becomes the star of the show...that the leader becomes the gateway to a "deeper" understanding of the Scriptures....the leader becomes the head of the church - yikes! ILSC: Lets not forget wierwille was human and some of you here seem to have thought he was more than human perhaps because of his stories of it snowing in a hot month and state or because he healed an indian mans lame arm or because of his charisma. One fraud does not make what hes representing(the bible) a fraud at all. T-Bone: I doubt if you can find any indication that folks on Grease Spot thought wierwille was more than human; however, you will find stories by lots of folks (myself included) who thought he was an honest human being. BUT not only was he a fraud (plagiarizing the works of others, fabricating stories of miraculous feats, as well as being misleading in his credentials) but among other great acts of pretense - he deliberately deceived followers into thinking that his twisted doctrine – the things that he taught – and the Bible – were one and the same! wierwille was really into fraudulent misrepresentation – read all about it in Matthew 7. wierwille was a fraud and his work is fraudulent ! nothing worth holding onto. If you're a Christian and want something to hold onto - something you can put your faith in...try Jesus Christ. love and peace T-Bone

I don't think there is a teacher out there who doesn't have something wrong with his theology. It may be impossible to be 100% correct on everything you teach in the bible because quite frankly no one knows everything about the bible. I just find traditional theology not very compelling. This of course does not make it wrong but I don't think I can just read a book on systematic theology and come away thinking everything I read is actually true. So the toughest question is who can we trust to teach us the word? Obviously it would be best if we all had the time to learn greek and hebrew and read the earliest texts but many have already done that for us. And there seems to be differing opinions even among those who have done that. The bible is a very complex and difficult subject to grasp because no matter what route you take in approaching learning it, every route will lead to a different path and all clearly can't be correct. So what does one do here? The best any of us can do is go with what we believe makes sense and believe is true. If something doesn't make sense then we need to dig deeper till be find a satisfactory answer. But I agree with many on here that the biggest mistake one could make when approaching the bible or learning from someone about the bible is that someone has the absolute truth. I think only God has the absolute truth. We can only get pieces of it here or there with no absolute certainty. Any thought of having the absolute truth is a mere illusion as we saw with the way. When I was reading weirwilles books him and the person who introduced me to the material(who btw still believes he has the absolute truth, which is a good feeling I admit but just a fantasy at best) seem to teach or think they have the absolute truth. Which is a dicey situation to be in if you are wrong which they both were. So while I like js as you guys call him here and his work, I no longer approach it with the view that this is just absolutely the truth. I approach it like I do anything else that could contain error, with caution and without thinking I know more than I know or that is knowable. The way seems to have taught they had the truth and everyone else was wrong and that isn't the right mindset to have. No one has the truth but God is my belief. Even if you read the bible and know all the knowledge the world has on the bible you would perhaps have the absolute truth but also have so many contradictions that knowing the absolute truth from whats false would be impossible to differentiate.