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Let's not forget the bum's rush.

They awoke from their Way Dreams and quickly realised the real truth

MRAP - We are old farts together, you and I. I hope you are holding up as well as I am. One time, I wrote a haiku for credit in one of my Old Testament classes on the book of Ecclesiastes. It went like this: I am getting old fear God keep his commandments old but not dead yet You wrote, "I have not seen anything in your writing that changes my opinion of the validity of what John Schoeheit has done in the REV." That's a wonderful thing, MRAP! As they used to say "de gustibus non disputandum est," which means something like "it's silly to fight over matters of taste." At one time (and for about 16 years) I had a tremendous amount of respect for Schoenheit's scholarship, second only to the respect I had for W@lter Cu^^^^ings. John and I served together on the writings of CES. I got to comment on the "22 Principles of Biblical Interpretation: How to Eliminate Apparent Bible Contradictions" before it was published. In 1996, I lost all respect for the "scholarship" Wierwille taught us in The Way International. When Wierwille said he took all his commentaries out and burnt them, he was rejecting conversation with anyone who believed differently from the way he did, and he was encouraging us to do the same. After all, if they were wrong about (insert TWI doctrine here) how could they be right about anything else? But genuine scholarship IS conversation! The content of the commentaries is CONVERSATION about what the Bible says. MRAP, you wrote, "You tend to portray Schoenheit as a VPW extension, I have not seen that, else wise, why did he leave TWI?" Schoenheit was fired from TWI by Martindale-era leadership for writing a paper that debunked all the excuses that TWI leadership used for practicing adultery. Schoenheit continued in all ways to "eat the fish and spit out the bones" or Wierwillian hermeneutics. For me, the REV has no scholarly credibility at all, not because of who Schoenheit is, but because of what he does. Schoenheit is willing to consider different possibilities until he publishes something on a particular verse or topic. Once he has published, his opinion is set in stone. He will NOT EVEN CONSIDSER that something he has written might be deficient in any way. Once he has written it, it is "a 'deal breaker,' that is, something we consider non-negotiable in terms of having to agree on it with someone before we can work together with him." Schoenheit cannot work together with anyone who disagrees with anything he has already published. This was a "scholarly" habit Schoenheit picked up from imitating Wierwille. One of the hallmarks of genuine scholarship is peer-review. The idea of peer-review is to submit your work to unbiased eyes who will catch any oversights that you might have made. Wierwille was never humble enough to submit the things he wrote to peer review. TWI's Research Department was set up to either rubber-stamp the things Wierwille wrote, or to find ways to rationalize his errors. That was the environment in which Schoenheit's scholarly neuron-pathways were combed. Schoenheit's work on the REV has never been submitted to peer-review. Schoenheit wrote, "Our goal is to eventually have an 'essentially literal' translation of the Bible that more closely represents biblical truth than any other translation currently on the market, and also one that is written in today’s English. We think we can do that because we believe a person has to understand the meaning of the text correctly to be able to translate it correctly. Furthermore, one’s theology always affects the way that person will translate the text. It is our assertion that there are theological issues that we understand more correctly than most translators, and thus our translation will reflect that theology." Any person who has done any translation of anything at all will recognize that this philosophy of translation is bogus. The translation CANNOT come from the meaning; the meaning HAS to come from the translation of the TEXT. In Principle #6 of the 22 Principles, Schoenheit (conjointly with Lynn and Graeser) wrote, "Logic demands that words and verses must not be wrested out of context and made to mean something foreign to the original meaning of the text." Yet this is exactly what Schoenheit does with his "translations" for the REV. The REV is plagiarism. For instance, in the REV "translation" of Ephesians 3, Schoenheit's words are mixed without distinction into the words of the ASV. You can't tell simply from reading which parts are the work of Schoenheit, and which parts are the work of the ASV translators. The REV would fail, and Schoenheit would be laughed out of the Society of Biblical Literature, for plagiarism. HOWSOEVER, MRAP, it really doesn't make much difference which version you like. The mind of Christ that you have (1 Corinthians 2:16) can teach you whatever he wants you to learn, no matter which version you are using, or whether you have a version of the Bible at all. The mind of Christ used a "Reactor Plant Control Manual" and an "Engineering Department Operating Procedures" to teach me how to change the things that were in my heart trying to kill me. God bless you, Bro! Love, Steve

MRAP, what is it going to take to get you to roll over for another long winter's nap? Another 3 or 4 months would be good.

Yeah, I remember that crazy stuff. People thrown out in the middle of the night, being told they had to clear the state lines before the sun came up. What a joke. Too bad there's no funny punchline.

provoked, pushed, persuaded, or possibly... fired?

short answer: maybe for whatever reason or reasons - they realized it wasn't a good fit for them. expanded literal not-so-short answer: after a long and continual effort to be honest and kind within a deceitful and exploitative organization - realizing one cannot put a round peg in a square hole - cuz it just don't fit - so they left.

Cause they realise the way international is an abusive cult; the legacy of a con man - victor paul wierwille. Best answer i have atm ;)

Maybe he should have phrased it, "Why are we still here?".

Yep, JayDee, that's what the man wrote because that's what the man believes... in his heart... In one way, I'm mad at him, but in another, I'm just very, very sad. He had a lot of potential, but he never took a critical look at Wierwille's hype, and he bought it, hook, line and sinker.... All of his scholarship is FATALLY flawed, because he thinks he knows what God wanted to say better than God himself did. And his arrogance has blinded him to that... :-( Love, Steve

And another from Dean Martin Ain't that a kick in the head

ABS=All B.S.

Thanks waysider..... Can't imagine how others, if they ever heard about this, would want to send abs-money to fund this.... Maybe this added information will help one more person decide to leave that cult.

I still stand by this, my earlier post. And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Stewart, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.

love that, Waysider !!!!! another revealing book would be great...it may inspire some other leadership to speak out

Lots of jumbled assertions and accusations in that paragraph. "you folks want the dirty laundry"...........nope. I want to dismantle the wierwille-mystique and the cult's power to "steal, kill and destroy" others. "an entrusted person, a confidant".........how else would someone be privy to inside information? "it dirties the concept of loyalty, friend or foe".......umm, MRAP have you ever read about the Apostle Paul, a Pharisee of the Pharisees? "evil or good, I despise a breach in loyalty"...........wow, guess everyone who leaves a cult should cower and slink away, huh? Since I started this thread.....let me repeat the gist (first post) of why write "a tell-all book".... Secrets that could bust the wierwille-mystique once and for all? Secrets that could enlighten the geer power-grab and fog years? Secrets that could rattle the martindales and craig's buy-off? Frankly, I could care less about hearing any more of wierwille/martindale/twi "dirty laundry"........who really cares to hear more about seducers and seductresses? about three-somes in Dayton motels, corps girls abused and/or raped in motor coaches? about Cabin 12 at camp gunnison and the set-up wherein corps coordinators made sure martindale was provided privacy and access to selected in-rez girls? What about "the loyalty" to the faithful followers who think (cough, cough) that twi is legit? What about the craig martindale payoff.....the buy-out to silence him? How much was he given up front.......cash money, ira investment, insurance access, nice car, perks, stuff.........and THEN, $60,000 per year for life. At $60,000 per year..............martindale has ALREADY received $900,000. At this rate, .......in another 25 years.......add another $1,500,000. Wonder if the newbie cult-followers understand that their ABS helps supply "retirement funds" to a sexual predator? We know that martindale slithered away into the night to Toledo......to live in a twi-owned house. So, does craig STILL have this added perk? Does twi pay the property tax, electric, water and association fees? If so........WOW, that stretches that $60,000 even further. Then......does craig get access to Camp Gunnison? What are ALL the hidden perks that are skimmed from the cult's "abundant sharing" that pay for martindale's silence? If I were in the twi-cult...............I would want to know this evil. Then, and only then...................could I make an informed decision as to stay or not.

Like Sonny Boy Williamson said: Don't Start Me Talkin', I'll Tell Everything I Know. Warning! Link contains "The Devil's Music".

.....and the fire drills at 3am........when corps came out in pajamas and/or robes, hair messed all up and hall monitors taking roll call. Then, if someone wanted to stay in bed or if some girl was in the bathroom fixing her hair......we'd get a 40-minute lecture at breakfast. .....and after sunday lunch meal.....corps would be given their "brownbag supper-meal" and stand outside along the walkway and exchange one item for another. Oftentimes, some of the girls would not want some of it OR felt sorry for some of the big men......and give them a sandwich or gorp, whatever it was called. It was the human element that I remember the most about in-residence corps.........not the classes, not the research.