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Like Sonny Boy Williamson said: Don't Start Me Talkin', I'll Tell Everything I Know. Warning! Link contains "The Devil's Music".

Bit of a side note here. I used to recommend his books and frequently lent out PFAL, though I had my doubts about the organization in general and didn't promote any activities, such as twigs and classes. The book was rarely ever returned to me and I would replace it from time to time. Finally, about 10 years ago, while still quite the novice in how the internet worked, I accidentally stumbled into GSC in my search for a replacement copy. Wow! were my eyes ever opened. I discovered I really didn't know anything about the workings of the organization I had inadvertently promoted. One thing that had plagued me after I left was a sense of guilt for deserting my commitment, including the salt covenant. I was also concerned about crazy stuff, like "how safe would my family be now that I have walked away from the so-called hedge of protection?". I was concerned that I would see consequences in my health and safety because I longer abundantly shared (tithed). Lots of things ran through my mind. It's not a good place to be, mentally. This place has helped me tremendously in understanding that my concerns were misplaced. I'm not exactly sure if that addresses the concerns expressed here but those are my immediate thoughts.

Lots of jumbled assertions and accusations in that paragraph. "you folks want the dirty laundry"...........nope. I want to dismantle the wierwille-mystique and the cult's power to "steal, kill and destroy" others. "an entrusted person, a confidant".........how else would someone be privy to inside information? "it dirties the concept of loyalty, friend or foe".......umm, MRAP have you ever read about the Apostle Paul, a Pharisee of the Pharisees? "evil or good, I despise a breach in loyalty"...........wow, guess everyone who leaves a cult should cower and slink away, huh? Since I started this thread.....let me repeat the gist (first post) of why write "a tell-all book".... Secrets that could bust the wierwille-mystique once and for all? Secrets that could enlighten the geer power-grab and fog years? Secrets that could rattle the martindales and craig's buy-off? Frankly, I could care less about hearing any more of wierwille/martindale/twi "dirty laundry"........who really cares to hear more about seducers and seductresses? about three-somes in Dayton motels, corps girls abused and/or raped in motor coaches? about Cabin 12 at camp gunnison and the set-up wherein corps coordinators made sure martindale was provided privacy and access to selected in-rez girls? What about "the loyalty" to the faithful followers who think (cough, cough) that twi is legit? What about the craig martindale payoff.....the buy-out to silence him? How much was he given up front.......cash money, ira investment, insurance access, nice car, perks, stuff.........and THEN, $60,000 per year for life. At $60,000 per year..............martindale has ALREADY received $900,000. At this rate, .......in another 25 years.......add another $1,500,000. Wonder if the newbie cult-followers understand that their ABS helps supply "retirement funds" to a sexual predator? We know that martindale slithered away into the night to Toledo......to live in a twi-owned house. So, does craig STILL have this added perk? Does twi pay the property tax, electric, water and association fees? If so........WOW, that stretches that $60,000 even further. Then......does craig get access to Camp Gunnison? What are ALL the hidden perks that are skimmed from the cult's "abundant sharing" that pay for martindale's silence? If I were in the twi-cult...............I would want to know this evil. Then, and only then...................could I make an informed decision as to stay or not.

Of course, the subject of this thread, John Linder hypothetically writing a tell all memoir, gives him numerous options for making a very substantial living, whether by loyalty or not.

You don't like whistle blowers in general, then, MRAP? In context of stories here and loyalty, what loyalty is owed to an organization that was disloyal from the beginning toward the person posting? What do you think of posters here like Penworks and Karl Kahler, both of whom have produced books for profit. They weren't on the fringes. Or Skyrider, who has told his story in riveting installments but won't be selling for profit or at all? And he was definitely an inner circle person.

What we need to do here, MRAP, is (1) be honest; and (2) don't be gullible. No oaths of any kind required.

I would not give mine away, nor sell them. Wouldn't give them to a charity shop - except for one, JCOP, I think it was. I wouldn't want to inflict the misery on someone else's life that was inflicted on mine. TWI's name and address is in the books and I wouldn't want anyone contacting them. There are much better study materials available, as books and online, and a good church can help.

Will Mr. Linder write a tell-all book......imagine the explosive info? If I recall correctly, John is an 8th corps grad and went on staff at hq in 1980. Just imagine all the behind-the-scenes this guy could write? He was assigned to the security/safety dept when Charlie Qu!ll>n was head sheriff, geer was still driving the bus for wierwille, and martindale was sporting a weirdo hairdo. If Linder kept a journal, then he'd have one heckava memoir......unless he had to sign some type of confidentiality agreement. Secrets that could bust the wierwille-mystique once and for all? Secrets that could enlighten the geer power-grab and fog years? Secrets that could rattle the martindales and craig's buy-off? Secrets that could upend Rosalie and her not-so-cunning foxery? I'd buy the book. Damn Straight, I would.

Last Saturday afternoon, I went for a walk in my neighborhood......an invigorating walk with temperatures hovering around 18 degrees. With sidewalks on both sides of the street, one can easily walk throughout this neighborhood and stay clear of the busy streets just on its outskirts. For many reasons, our cluster of homes continues to be a favorite for soliciting girl scout cookies, sales canvassing and the six-week rotation of Jehovah Witnesses.....and so it was this day. Two sets of pairings were knocking on doors.....and no one was opening their doors. This routine is so common that most here simply don't even open their door with the gesture of "no thanks." Many of my neighbors have those little signs that say "no soliciting"......but, oftentimes, the door knocking is not assuaged. Anyways, as I passed by.......I asked myself, "Should I just let this pass or try to help these people?" Well, I walked another 30 yards or so and decided to turn around. This couple had stood at this door for about 45 seconds before heading back to the sidewalk where I greeted them with, "What are you selling?" I was playing coy. I was quite positive that they were JW, but didn't want to put them on the defensive. This pair was one man and one woman.......and she was the dominant of the two. She assured me that they were NOT selling anything, but were trying to find anyone in the neighborhood who spoke Russian. Their "program" was to help to assemble a gathering of those interested in the Russian language to help one another. After another five minutes of chit chat, I told them that one of the reasons why few open their doors around here was because of dominant solicitation from sales people AND Jehovah Witnesses who target this area. With that.......she admitted to me that they were, indeed, JW. See.....they were using "a backdoor witnessing technique" [deception] to gain access to bring others into the JW-cult. And, then....I told her that I, too, had knocked on doors for years trying to help people to better understand scripture....adding another five minutes of background and detail. They were really nice people, late-20s, and I couldn't leave them without WARNING them about cult manipulation. Long story short.....I gave a short overview of the scientology tv-documentary, then my experiences and why I walked away........and cults worldwide. There are better ways to serve Jehovah.....than doing this grueling coercion of door-knocking. I told them to think long and hard......their life's passions should not be dictated by JW-hierarchy. ~~~~~~~ Here at GSC......our desire to help expose the way international cult.....does NOT stop there! The tell-tale signs of cults are consistent across the board. Same tactics. Same techniques. Here at GSC......these discussion forums were instrumental in exposing the CES-splinter CULT. CES is in a Mess...... ~~~~~~~ So yeah.............lots of us are passionate about BREAKING THE STRANGLEHOLD OF ALL CULTS. TWI-gatekeepers

I put this in my "About Me" area -- but figured I'd post it here too. I joined GSC recently ... mostly to learn, but occasionally to contribute. Recently, I've been reading posts going back years. It's amazing how many "light bulbs" have already gone off for me on many levels since reading what I have here already! I've been lurking for a couple of years here -- but only very sporadically. I tried to "join" a few times, but could never get my log-in to work over a period of about a year or more! Only now -- with the new format -- was I able to register and actually get into the site successfully under a screen name and password. (To say I'm a bit slow technology-wise would be a huge understatement.) : ) A brief "bio" ... I was involved in da way from 1977 through about 1992 or so (witnessed to by wows, Jim Baker, Bob Darnell and a gal named Annie in Mt. Vernon, NY in June of '77); went wow twice and graduated 11th Corps; first assignment was Limb Coordinator Brit Lynn's secretary in West Virginia; next year became slave labor for Way Home leader and perv Area Coordinator Alan Licht in Yonkers, NY; extricated self by moving to NYC for new job; occasionally attended "way offshoot" events/fellowships there until about '92 or so, at which point I called it quits on anything having to do with TWI or any of its offshoots. I reached that point of walking away after a rather dramatic (and I think Spirit inspired) moment after a chance meeting on a cross-town bus in NYC -- where I got "witnessed to" by some wide-eyed-with-wonder Church of Christ "disciples" who invited me to their home fellowship on the Upper West Side of Manhattan that night. I had a HUGE "ah-ha" moment when I realized that THEY were ME 15 years earlier, when I was "witnessing" to others with that same wide-eyed zealous wonder! When I got off the bus a few minutes later, I was in deep thought as I walked up the two flights to my little studio apartment in a lovely brownstone a half a block from Central Park. I sat down at my table, opened my Bible to the gospels, and asked Jesus (out loud!) to be the only one I'd ever listen to again. I read only the Gospels and Psalms for the next several months -- asking only that Jesus -- if he were REAL -- would reveal who he was to me. It really was a beautiful epiphany -- in that I figured if this Christianity thing was really true -- than certainly The One who began it all would and could illuminate me. I've never regretted that choice. There were a few years in there when I succumbed to the propaganda that we MUST be in some sort of "congregation" and so I church-shopped for a while (with some hilarious results along the way!) ... but I always came back to the exact place I was on that day in Manhattan when I decided to leave Wayville and get back in touch with the Jesus Who'd shown me who He was years earlier -- when I was just 14 years old! ; ) Thanks for reading this ... I look forward to getting to know some of youz guys here in the days ahead.

sometimes people feel closer to God after going through a traumatic experience....like the psalmist said - though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me Psalm 23:4.... I can relate to your dilemma - after being in TWI for 12 years and then leaving - I do appreciate the fact that the Power for Abundant Living class (The Bible Tells Me So was one of the books from that class) got me into reading the Bible. Well, I still enjoy reading the Bible but now enjoy the freedom of thought and choice as a Christian free from the intellectual and emotional stranglehold of a cult...with a more discerning eye I have come to realize so much of wierwille's stuff was just feel-good pablum and something to give folks false hopes.... There's a lot of good Bible study helps out there - stuff by real legitimate scholars - that you may want to check out. I have a modest library of Bible versions, reference tools, commentaries, and theological studies on shelves, computer and devices....Perhaps you already have some of this stuff too. It may be a lot more work on your part - to ferret out the meaning and application of a passage - but it will be more rewarding too! Rewarding in terms of growth, developing critical thinking skills etc...I believe there are no shortcuts to anything of real value. Rocky said it looks like you may have figured out a lot of stuff yourself as far as where wierwille is at judging by your own experience...perhaps revisiting Matthew 7 of Jesus' call to discernment - by their fruit you shall know them - it would be worth your time...it's a tough pill to swallow but it is necessary to admit when we figure out we've been deceived. We were drawn to an attractive tree that seemed to hold so much promise. But then...eating the fruit of that tree - digesting the insidious doctrine and practice - we come to find out that tree is not so good...not good at all...don't feel ashamed - Jesus' message of discernment in Matthew 7 is to everyone ....even Christians can be deceived though they are looking for spiritual nourishment.

Exactly And MRAP, I refuse to sit on my hands thanks

You might want to provide a more substantial justification for your admonition that someone interested in writing a memoir of their experience in TWI sit on their hands. As you might have surmised by now, I don't buy your schtick.

You made some unsupported claims in that paragraph. "You folks want the dirty laundry;" "Book writers are normally folks on the fringe, folks with a bit of knowledge but without the inner circle knowledge..." Support your claims. Btw, who cares about whether you despise a "breach in loyalty?" Said "breach" supposes loyalty to the person or organization you imply is poised to be betrayed is someone or something to be honored and respected with or by that loyalty. The context thereof in this forum suggests otherwise.

Almost everything he wrote was lifted from uncredited sources. I can't tell you what to read and what not to read. If you like some aspects of what you read, we can certainly help you find the original sources. Personally, I'm not inclined to believe the original sources had it right either but that's just my opinion.

Welcome to GSC. I hope we'll be able to help you resolve some of the confusion you may have. See, here's the thing about his death. He taught, in the Advanced Class, that cancer is caused by devil spirits. In not so many words, what he implied was that people with cancer are "possessed". He died of cancer. His brother, "Uncle Harry, died of cancer. His son, Don, died of cancer. Do you see a pattern? Now, what we have here is a dilemma. If he was right in what he taught about cancer, we were following the teachings of a man who was possessed. If he was wrong in what he taught about cancer, he could have been wrong about anything and everything. It all comes down to credibility. As to what he taught, via his classes and books and so on, the vast majority of it was plagiarized material, sometimes whole paragraphs, even whole chapters and. yes, even entire books. This, despite the wild claims he made about God talking to him directly and having exclusive knowledge that hadn't been known for 2,000 years. I've gotten off-topic. This thread is simply to let people know the truth about the cause of his demise. There are probably many who still have no idea.

I don't know how you excuse serial rape, misogyny, bigotry, false doctrine, narcissism, etc. Since you asked, yes you should get rid of what's on your pc and phone. If you want to share something with someone tell them Jesus Christ loves them now and forever. You don't need a class or a syllabus for that.

Its your choice what u recomnend to someone.

Ah, see in his WAP class, he repeatedly and emphatically made the point to "tuck it away".

here's a little teaser for tonight's teaching: While it may be important to remember "to whom it is addressed" It’s just as important to know a tutu is not a dress

Is he teaching ballet?

That's OK. It's a Classic case of the #1 defense (New England Patriots) going up against the best offense (Atlanta Falcons, one of the best). Whenever this happens, the best defense statistically has the edge. Patriots are favored by 3 pts. Most recently, that what happened when the Seattle Seahawks did it in Super Bowl XLVIII. It promises to be an exciting game!

Very cool HG30…you know, I can think of a few sleep deprivation scenarios where that would be applicable: …Keeping up with the corps Better believe for Cocaine …tired of being a WOW Don’t you have a cow Cocaine Take the class Take the class That damn class With Cocaine == == == == seems like we’re stuck in a loop of Clapton and Allman Brothers…how about a little variety with a Jimi Hendrix tune