Leaderboard

Just wanted to revisit this thread.............and say again...... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you, DWBH.......... For the past 18 years......i.e. Waydale/GSC........you have shown impeccable integrity towards spotlighting twit's doctrines of error, their culpability, and vehement resistance to come clean. And, to me, personally.........you've offered support, strength and kindness in every possible way. I have no words but to deeply thank you for it. At every step along the way, you've never divulged my identity or confidences....unless I provided it. IMO.....YOU are "the real deal." You stand head-and-shoulders above any of those listed in your post (below).....OR all the others in that 1985 clergy listing.......and I knew most everyone of them. Some of those men (and women)......like Dr. L0nnell J0hnson and others......exited rather quickly and moved into lives and careers that, if they'd spoken out, it would have been of great detriment to their careers,.....thus, for them, I understand. And, according to my count.....22 of these clergy have deceased. But OTHERS ........would coward away and/or used their positions to further exploit the deception for filth lucre sake and donned the mantle to lord over others. But you, DWBH.......are NOT like them. To me, you are likened unto those who heralded the days that would come.....yielding a rise unto David, a righteous Branch, and a King that would reign in the eternities. You are STILL standing tall.....still in there, giving "jeremiah-esque" warnings like thunderclap.......to the likes of Monsieur de Liar. I commend you far, far greater than my own brother-in-law who, to this day, STILL holds to wierwille-doctrine and has been instrumental for over 20 years in a top-tier role as wierwillite-clergy in a splinter group. May the Lord have mercy on those corps/clergy who have not turned from this wickedness and, thus, have blood on their hands. With most humbled thanks, skyrider

Going back to some of those old threads...........one gets a glimpse of all the posters who came forward to tell their stories. Just imagine.................What if.......there were no GSC Discussion Forums? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~A Thundering Round of Applause..........For..........Paul Allen~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey JYDL.......In case you missed it, I wrote you an open letter and posted it on GSC.......and DWBH, wrote you one too. ..........................YOU are at another crossroad. ~~~~~~~ .

Ten years ago, in early July of 1998........the advanced class was running at twi's hq. To help oversee the new students, inresidence corps were brought in from camp gunnison as branch coordinators. As twi events go, this one had all the same standard procedures and pecking order as usual. Except for one glitch........ At this event, martindale set his sights on a corps woman, a married woman whose husband and children were back at camp gunnison, and this sexual encounter brought extreme confusion, hurt, and emotional distraught to this corps woman. As this *damage* spilled over to her corps brother, who took it upon himself to personally CONFRONT CRAIG.......the damage control liasons of twi, the gun-totting guys, were unleashed to get this corps guy packing and on a bus within the hour. Others know much more of these details than me.......but it later involved a Colorado Court Case. As the phones began ringing.....and word spread of this sexcapade involving martindale and this married corps woman, it left little doubt that THINGS WERE ROTTEN AT THE WAY INTERNATIONAL. For indeed, some of us truly believed that martindale and howard and don were sincerely committed to *cleaning up the way international* and taking this *prevailing word* (cough, cough) to all who wanted deliverance. Like his predecessor wierwille, here martindale had "a secret life of lust" and was preying on the young corps women......a married woman, no less. MY FUTURE CHANGED.......with the knowledge of this!!!!! IT WAS TIME TO LEAVE TWI. Sure, I heard Cgeer's poop paper back in the day (of the power grab) .......but honestly, it was filled with SO MUCH pomp and arrogance of cgeer's "wisdom and accomplishments" that I could barely hear what he was saying. And then, with Schoenhxxt's adultery paper, the firings, the shenanigans of geer's now-you-see-me-now-you-don't.........I just wasn't ready to "jump ship" when that loyalty letter came out. WHY NOW?? WHY THE CHANGE??.............Well, for one thing, I was ten years older and had plenty of time to assimilate the geer-martindale-offshoots splintering and all that. Plus, the homo purge and the micro-management and the "promised land of the prevailing word" brought MORE and MORE LEGALISM INTO TWI. So, when this martindale sexcapade event spilled out.....at the advanced class, no less.......with a MARRIED corps woman......and hearing subsequent information from others as this information opened insider information of twi......THE SCALES FELL FROM MY EYES. So.............TEN YEARS LATER, what have I learned. Well.....Martindale was ousted two years after I left -- in 2000. And, Rosalie has done her best to squelch any information or anyone who want to resolve twi's dark issues. Plus, without a charismatic leader anymore........twi has resorted to *bringing back from the dead wierwille-idolatry and the over-the-top adulation of emeritus trustees. The Multi-Level Marketing administration is firmly in place and "business as usual" has gained residency once again.......as well as the "serf system," the corps program. Notwithstanding that twi's sunday teachings are SO BORING, AND DULL, AND READ FROM THE LECTURN each week........imo, it gives rock-solid proof that the twi religion is dead. Looking at life......TEN YEARS LATER......and life is so very good. Fresh air and skying high. skyrider

Sorry jim jack. That video UN-inspired me. Please, no offense. Just not my cup of coffee. At the end of the video he relates that someone asked him to pray for them because they were having surgery. He said "Why would I pray for you, you've already made up your mind"? THAT is NOT my kind of Christianity. No grace. No compassion. No Jesus.

(((((((Krys))))))) I was back-tracking on a few of Skyrider’s threads and so got into this one….I was so stunned and upset by your account as quoted by Skyrider in the Timeline Insanity on Steroids thread that at the time I did not know what to say to you on that thread. But I am glad I followed up and read this thread. One thing disturbs me very deeply - the far-reaching effect of those f0ck1ng predators. I cannot imagine or relate to what you and your family have experienced. But for my own issues, mental baggage, etc., I just wanted to say your posts on this thread are a great source of encouragement…and another reminder I am still not finished healing. I really really really appreciate your honesty and courage.

How do you sleep at night.......?? Now, that you are up there on the "big chair"........it must feel good, right? Hopefully, linder is still running errands and still go-fer.......printing off GSC-updates.....like he did for Rosalie. Because.............I know you are a busy man. It's taken you 28 years at hq and kissing the ring to get there. But.........I hope you can stop for a minute.....from your busy day and answer me this: Right now......I pulled out a picture of you, Michele and daughter......with a card that says (quote)........."What a great blessing it was to spend time with you in Dallas! We are so thankful to have had that opportunity. (Name........skyrider) your Way Magazine article is excellent (Jean-Yves.....you underlined "excellent" twice). Thanks for all of the work you put into it, your practical examples really made it live for us.......(next paragraph) Have a great (you underlined....."great") time enjoying the holidays and prevailing in this glorious household."...............(signed) Love, Jean-Yves, Michele and Audr3y So..........I guess that I have three questions: Martindale labeled my wife and me "possessed" and (from what other corps told us) "we had turned our backs on God"... [nine months later after we received this card from you]..........how, Jean-Yves did YOU praise me with accolades and state "your practical examples really made it live" for you and Michele......yet, you watched....martindale, rosalie, and howard mount a CHARACTER ASSASSINATION against us on that corps night and a smear campaign that followed......not coming to our defense, NOT ONE PHONE CALL? Jean-Yves...........is THIS how you are going to make "spiritual" decisions as twi's 4th president......as other corps work diligently to keep priorities of family, God and work in proper balance? Not sure if it was the first day, but I remember being with you at the Plains of Abraham......you were so young and vibrant......NOW, how do you sleep at night? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Note: Click on the Chateau Frontenac insert of "plains of Abraham link"..........WHAT A VIEW overlooking the Saint Lawrence River .

A lot of talk (some might say bloviating), the essence of it being what you (or, others... depending on the perspective taken on it) need to do to be doing (or fulfilling) God's will for your life... No, I didn't listen to the whole of it. But enough to pick up on a few quips from it (and what I think is the essence of it): "If you come here, what you're telling me is, Curry, I want you to push me, so that I can fulfill the will of God in my life." "What you've been hearing here, most of the world has never heard." "I'm here to train soldiers for Jesus Christ." "Do you want to change the world?" "To keep his commands means consistent obedience." "Before you can grab a hold of God, you've got to let go of the world." ___________________________________________ So, Jim, I really don't see why you think this is so great. Boiled down, it has all the appearance and trappings of a works ministry, empowered by a "name it and claim it" brand of faith. Which isn't too surprising, given it's basis in the gospel of the kingdom (which Jesus Christ and the 12 preached.) If that's where you want to be, fine. But not me. I'm into the gospel of grace.

I can tell you're having fun rummaging through old threads, higherground. Here's to thinking outside the PFAL book :)

When I was young, we had a youth pastor and we were discussing this very thing. We weren't "getting it" so he said he would make it easy for us. He said.....an idol is anything you put in front of God. He then said...anything that keeps you from Him or takes His place in your lives.

...........damn, repressed memories coming alive......... ...........all the relationships, associations, connections..........and NONE came to our defense ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Insert: Background Info: Listing of Other "Top-Tier " The depth and scope of relationships and involvement is listed below. My wife had her set.......as well. Thru the years, I had brushed shoulders with nearly all "top-tier" except harry wierwille. I was on WOW years.....he died in Fall of 1977. Some names will be masked with anonymity.....more that martindale/trustees gave my wife and me when our names were smeared FAR and WIDE to all the corps household across the country in 1998. NONE of those listed below ever called us again. ~~~~~ VP Wierwille..................as documented here and here. Also, escorted mrs. wierwille 3 times in dallas. Ermal Owens.................time at their trailer, escorted mrs. owens........and I was last person digging ermal's grave. Don Wierwille.................at don's & wanda's home after "cult intervention"......and around him & his mother in dallas. Howard Allen..................both my wife and I had close dealings with him. Howard walked my bride down the aisle. * Craig Martindale.............needs no explanation.....documented here. Chris Geer......................many experiences, in timeline thread......stood alongside geer during 7th corps mass-wedding event in Emporia Rosalie Rivenbark..........associations/involvement with high country caravan & warehousing department John Reyn0lds................much background, came to OKC for mother's funeral...he was sec/tr-elect....later, trustee '98 Harve P1atig...................9th corps, we worked side-by-side at Kenyon Auditorium......Harve, rosalie's vice-prez (then ousted??) Roger Mittl3r...................6th corps, knew him from my interim year in way builders....one of many in "vice-prez parade" John Rvpp......................17th corps (?)......he replaced Mosqu3da.....became TX limb/reg guy....trunk and one of vic-prez Steve L0ngley.................11th corps (?) ** .....married Meg (9th corps).....Meg and I were in same corps in-rez twig David Chav0ustie............bad act *** (listed below) ....... no respect for the guy, evah! John Lind3r.....................8th corps, lots of situations,.....known as, imo.........the guy in the shadows with his 9mm glock handgun Gary Fredxxxx.................8th corps, lots of situations,....top legal twi-guy......in-laws w/ $$$$.....help build his back deck at his home Nancy H3arne.................9th corps, RIP, deceived friend, daughter of Ira & Ora........Ira was vpw's "man" of Kipp Farm operations ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~probably more, if I cared to dig deeper~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Asterisks: * Howard was tipsy...with alcohol breath....in the back room of BRC.....40 minutes before walking my bride down aisle. ** Steve L0ngley........later, one of the "new teachers" of class after martindale's wap went down in flames. *** David Chav0ustie......no respect, what an a$$ (maybe he changed)......History: my 1st wow year and I'd spent 3 weeks witnessing and working with two syracuse university girls (students, and pretty).....anyways, big build-up for weekend coffeehouse event and after 15 minutes of music, chav0ustie came onstage and made an a$$ of himself.......those two girls I had "invited"........split out the door real fast!! [ In hindsight --- good for them!! ] This guy, too, became one of the "new teachers" of fnd class. lol Question: Wasn't Rupp......also, one of the 3 guys to teach new fnd class? So, yeah............wished I'd have stopped digging MY OWN GRAVE.....(and ermal's)........in July 1981. By then..............I had my bride at my side............and we could have jumped in my car and SPLIT. .

Many of us are now Christians who are MORE devout than before, who care MORE about GOD since we care LESS about MAN. With all the time you're spending to please twi, how much time do you have to care for your family (which is required by God), to learn His Word (and not just go over and over and over whatever few subjects twi puts on tapes this month) and really, to learn more about God Almighty (rather than hobble yourself with what ANY group says about Him)?

At some point, we must let it all go. Otherwise the weight of it will drag us down and keep us from doing anything that remotely seems like living some kind of fulfilling life. I didn't want to do this initially. I figured that as long as I kept it all in the front of my memory, I could shoot "bad vibes" at them. What was I thinking? I dunno. I think I was just reacting to the hurt in my heart. Even after I let it go, there were still times where it was on my mind at least once a day for a long time. I think it was years until I realized I'd gone several days without thinking about it. Please don't let stuff like this swirl around in your brain.

Thanks you abi; now I see. Yes it takes a long time to recover from something like this. I know I'm not finished healing from it. It turned my husband off God completely. My son tried to reconcile with his wife but they just couldn't get it together after this. It wasn't a matter of trust, my son says his (then) wife had her whole head so twisted around by all this, that it seemed to him she couldn't consistently continue with rational thoughts and processes. Even as much as 2 months afterwards, she was still roaming around from room to room thinking she was on vacation somewhere. It wasn't real to her that she needed to start looking in the paper for a job. She just could not get it together. They found a small apartment not too far from where we lived, and they went off to see it. They took separate cars because she was going to look in on her mother afterward (so she said) but she was not seen again (by him)! Shortly after this, she went home to our house and packed her things while I was at work and lived with her mother for quite a while. Her father told my son to let her go - - she was so much like her mother - - and who else would know? It took a long long time for him to start coming out of it. I think he recovered faster than I did. Now, he's remarried to a wonderful young woman who really loves him. He makes an excellent living and really enjoys his life.

There are plenty of places to start, but I think I'll begin with that particular event. It is pretty easy to fill in the history when and where it's needed. It was common practice to bring the Corps in at an advanced class to assist with a number of things, particularly the branch meetings. The particular people mentioned by Skyrider were my kids, my son and his wife.....and another man. This other man was also married, but unlike my kids, he had children so it was decided he would go to hq and his wife would stay at Gunnison with the children. My DIL had been in loy's stable for quite some time by this point in time - - and apparently he'd called for her several times already during the week or 10 days that they had been at hq. The other man - - a Corp buddy-brother had gotten wind of my DIL's special "calling" and apparently approached her also for "relief" as he had been without his own wife for 10 days or so....and....it was up to her to "take care of the man (men) of god" donchaknow! Something happened and they were caught. My son blew his stack! She was serving everybody but him, and he was outraged because he knew it was just plain wrong. These 3 parties were brought together into loy's office together with Rev. wc and head of safety....Mr. Linder. (Hello mister linder ). There was a revolver on loy's desk and mister linder ( ) opened his jacket coat to reveal his loaded shoulder holster. There were many things said...but my son told me that he grew sicker and sicker (in his spiritual gut) and needed to set things to rights. So according to him, he pounded his own fist down on loy's desk and "ripped him a new one". Rev wc was shocked and saddened. He called loy out because several years prior to this incident, loy had apparently promised him (Rev wc) that these sexploits had ended and would be no more....but obviously it wasn't so. My son grew sicker....now realizing for the first time that everything he had gotten wind of previously was totally true. Even after all this - - loy begged them to stay.....he offered to change their interim assignment from Way Disciple to remaining at HQ to coordinate the Way Disciple program. My DIL begged my son to agree so they could stay (and she could remain Most Favored Female) but this required that my son give up his exclusive claim on his own wife and "join in" claiming for himself any one of the upper echelon women for himself. Obviously my son said "No" and then there was nothing to be done. They were dismissed to their quarters to pack their belongings and escorted by Safety (with a pistol on the front seat of the car) to the nearest airport (I don't remember anymore which one it was) and put up in a motel nearby until the following morning's flight home (to New Jersey) The other young man was put on a Greyhound bus and sent local back to Gunnison. They could have sent him express for the bulk of the distance but decided not to because this way they bought themselves plenty of time to get to his wife, squirrel her away to CO limb hdq where they could fill her head with all kinds of untruths so that they could retain her (and their children) in "the program".

It's time! Actually it is probably past time. This story has surfaced in part from time to time over the years, but it has not been remembered with all the facts in the right place. I think that's because some prople know a little....and some others a little more....and others make a bridge between the former and the latter and do so in error. I know much of this account - - but not everything. "That man"- - who stood up to loy was my son. Although it's been 10 years, my insides still shake at the remembrance of that horrible weekend....and the weeks that followed. Although I was then a grown woman - - my heart was crushed because "my kids" were hurt. "My kids" means my son and my daughter-in-law who before this, meant the world to me. I never met a sweeter girl than she was. Of all the ones my son hung around with, she was the best, or so I thought, and certainly the most beautiful creature I'd seen. I loved her with my whole heart - - and part of me still does. This will be coming in parts, because it is so hard to tell. I didn't think it would be....but it is! Even now tears well up. That orginazation was soooo evil. More evil than we could have known.