Leaderboard

Thanks Skyrider! Well done. Many, many great points and facts. Hopefully, your "introversion" won't keep you away for too long. It would a bit hard for some of us not to see you around here regularly as you have been since WayDale. Love to you and your's, and...............peace upon you all!

Part IX FreshAir77 We, as a family, walked away from the cult.......and breathed fresh air. Nothing else mattered. Every time I look at my wife and our two sons.....it was totally worth it. I walked thru a cult-hell to find my bride.......and married an angel. And, I dedicate this last chapter to my Dad and Mom.....they walked thru hell with me and for me. Thanks Dad. Thanks Mom. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you Greasespotters !! I have no more words. You all are truly amazing and I dedicate the title of this "book" to you. I'm going introvert for awhile......to ponder the depths of the oceans, the reaches of the universe. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ghost Ryders In The Sky ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

Greetings Grease-Spotters and visitors to this website, I’m happy to announce that on November 22 the Special Offer starts on my website for ordering my book, Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International. Before I say more, I want to thank Michael Duffy for providing this online community where we can share our stories. Also, a big thank you to everyone who has posted helpful, informative information over the years and keeps doing so. I wanted this community to know that from Nov. 22 until Dec. 22 customers in the USA can order Undertow at my website and receive a signed copy in the mail. Transactions will be secured on my website through PayPal. Undertow is $24.95 plus tax and shipping. There are 31 photographs included. The e-book version is scheduled for early 2017. Later, all customers, including overseas residents, can find Undertow at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other vendors’ websites and can order it from brick and mortar bookstores, too. (FYI -The print-on-demand company printing and distributing my book says the time it takes for books to become available at Amazon, etc., varies from one retailer to another.) Maybe you suffer or you have a friend or family member who suffers from confusion or emotional abuse after leaving a high-control group, religious or otherwise. Perhaps you are a mental health counselor seeking to help people who have left such a group. Whether you are a professor of New Religious Movements or are a parent, student, clergyman, or simply a person curious about the inner workings of such groups, you can find insights in Undertow. My book may only pull back the curtains on one person's seventeen-year experience as a leader and biblical researcher in The Way, but the story's themes of idealism, commitment, disillusionment, and survival are universal. It offers hope. I'm grateful to share my story and thank everyone who has helped me bring it into the world. Read more here Cheers, Penworks

Been reading here lately and in correspondence and thinking a bit. It's all very well having meetings in the home - "home church" - good idea, keeps things intimate. Too intimate. I imagine the original idea was to avoid shelling out $$ for meeting rooms or building places (like church buildings!). But meeting in the home had a dual purpose. Think how lovey-dovey everyone was. Greeted with hugs and kisses, despite not knowing the greeter well and perhaps despite one's own personal reservations. Everyone squished on couches or chairs during fellowship, and again after fellowship when things might be more relaxed. There came also more hugs and the back rubs and shoulder rubs, in sympathy or whatever. All this can be nice, can be friendly. It was a sort of enforced intimacy that could be manipulated by some. Everyone wanted to be round a charismatic leader. But what if that charismatic leader had other ideas? In the "group hug" on the couch, ostensibly putting arms along the couch back, perhaps, then allowing them to stray onto the shoulders of young women? Seeing who shied from that touch and who didn't. The occasional "accidental" brush of the hand in an inappropriate way. A too-long hug when people were leaving. And then, at bigger fellowships, everyone was used to this behavior because it had become the norm. So on coming into contact with the more rapacious type of leader - well, the softening up had already taken place. Rather than "promoting harmony in the home," I'm coming to the conclusion that meeting in the intimate home setting, where people's guard is down somewhat, was the start of the grooming process for the sexual abuse for young women. A lot of this unwanted touching just wouldn't have got started, would have been rejected earlier, if meetings had taken place other than in homes. Who smooches up like this in a church? In a meeting in a public room at the library or town hall or school hall? In a park or beach meeting? Thoughts, anyone?

After reading this last, one choice word comes to mind: "motherf*#kers"! The despicable treatment you and your family received -- after decades of faithful service and SACRIFICE -- is so disturbing to me. The Boss will undoubtedly have some choice words for these TWIts when we "stand before him" one day.

I got my copy in the mail this afternoon. And, so, the journey begins.

Thanks Penworks for sharing your heart and life I will be purchasing my copy soon thanks to those who provided the links for purchasing

The Next Week The dreaded call came. Our region coordinators wanted my wife and I to come to Austin for a meeting. At the time, we had made our decision and planned to stay in OKC. Both boys were at a pivotal point in their respective schools, middle and high school. The school fit was perfect for us. I had strong indications that our region leaders had been in contact with martindale......and probably, got wind of our disgruntle remarks from the dozens of phone calls flying back and forth. Perhaps, someone had got confronted in another state and "outed us"......I really wasn't quite sure. Still don't know. But anyways.......a Thursday meeting was just not going to work for us because of the boys, and so, Friday night 7pm in Austin it was. My wife and I had agreed that we were done. We were turning in our corps nametags......which also meant clergy status. It. Was. Over. We. Were. Done. Being. Corps. We planned to put all our energy in our family and rebuild. I would start looking for employment. We'd lay low, get our ducks in a row......and process the past 5 weeks. It had been such a turbulent, swirl of activity......we needed time and space. And........the question of WHEN......had arrived !!!!! If I remember correctly, it was about six and one-half hours drive from OKC to Austin. Would have been nice to do a conference call.....but I knew, this one was face-to-face confrontation! [Hind sight is 20/20-----and I wished I'd never gone there. Arrgh]. Gawd.......it irks me to even think about it, even now. My wife and I had ALL THOSE HOURS traveling and we knew confrontation was coming. But this way, we'd tell them about our priorities, our family, our decision. In Austin, the "meeting" lasted for almost three hours.....20-25 minutes of class stuff, business, etc.......and then, confrontation. Growing.....Intensifying.....What The Hell Are You Thinking Confrontation? Thankfully, I was sooooo exhausted from weeks of sleepless nights, turmoil, that I didn't throw a punch. Over and over, we told them that we were done being corps. And, of course, that brought on the white-hot confrontation. How can you quit? What?... you want to just sit in twig and let someone else lead you? Accusations. Mocking the stupidity of our quitting. Anything to try to get a rise, a reaction, a sliver to attack and counterpunch. To put this in writing, I don't really know where all the time went. All the confrontations blurred together. We handed over our corps nametags. Yeah, I believe that's right. We'd brought our corps nametags....it was like a defiant moment of We-Are-Done. It was near 10pm.......and the region couple offered, with ministry petty cash expense, to pay for our night in a motel. I turned it down. They implored us....it was only "the right thing to do." I said no thanks. We headed out the door and drove away. I looked at my wife, she looked at me.....it was like, "Did THAT just happen? Did we just quit and walk away from decades of corps? No. More. Corps. Assignments?" [They thought we were going to get a local motel room.] I drove all the way home.....totally exhausted. Arrived home in OKC at 4:45am. We fell into bed. At 7:25am.......the phone rang, a dear advanced class grad called and said, "The La1lys are headed to OKC. I hear you guys are mark & avoid!!" At 8:00am.......Tom La1ly called and said, "We will be there at the Limb tomorrow at noon (Sunday) to load up limb furniture, files and inventory. Have it all in the garage, we will be bringing other believers to help us. You are not to come out. We don't want you near them. I will bring the limb inventory sheet. You are mark and avoid. Bye." I had 28 hours.......the interwoven complexities of twi's furniture, files, storage cabinets, bookstore items, meeting items, horns of plenty, all this limb stuff needed to be separated, moved to the garage......and he was bringing a 3-page inventory list. [EXTRICATION......the cult-tentacles were everywhere in the limb home.] What a mess.........on top of only two and one-half hours of sleep (by driving home, back to OKC)......I worked into the night and slept probably four hours Saturday night. By the next morning, I could hardly see straight. By Sunday.............around 11am, it was all done.....in the garage.....and we were mark and avoid. No contact with the believers. Our boys were in shock.......confused and intervals of crying.......as we tried to explain it all. They lost many "friends" that day !!

Twinky, I’m with you on unwanted touching / hugging etc. I am not a touchy-feely-type guy. I am very reserved – especially around the opposite sex. Maybe it’s just me but even as a teen I believed any touching, hugging, and kissing led to some serious business…so I was always a little uncomfortable even if I was standing near a guy believer giving a girl some big-believer hugs. Not trying to paint myself up as a saint – just felt safe with my hands-off policy – otherwise I’ve got to deal with the “bad thoughts” inspired by the touching/hugging/kissing. Don’t mean to condemn Mr. Hugger either…but it doesn’t hurt to hear what women think of all this. Yeah I would think the atmosphere of a home-setting would tend to soften boundaries – where folks let down their guard. Along with what WordWolf said – friends…family…relatives….meet in the home all the time but it gets complicated with TWI – there can be other things at play. I think there was a “grooming process” with a predatory bent thanks to the insidious elements that trickled down from vp’s “ministry”. Like In vp’s Christian Family and Sex class – a weird idea runs throughout the class as a subtext or subliminal message - that the “renewed mind” can handle anything – and so inappropriate and offensive things can wind up getting lost in the sauce of moral disengagement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_disengagement I was fascinated by WordWolf’s phrase “ It WAS the way some people did it in twi, but that was almost an accidental by-product of the process, like drawing in real Christians into the web of exploiters and con artists.” TWI could bring out the best and the worst in people depending on one’s makeup (personally I prefer the Maybelline brand ). If you had altruistic or idealistic tendencies you looked for ways to help others. If you were a predator, con artist, etc. you appreciated the target-rich environment.

okay.....I'm back.....took a shower and grabbed a corona ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fourth and Final Weekend By Wednesday, as the adv class weekend was but days away.....I did what I've always done, throughout my life, prior to every football, basketball or track meet.......I refused to allow any distractions after Wednesday. I absolutely needed Thursday and Friday to focus......to stay in my lane and run this race. My driving focus was to run THRU the tape......for all those people in our state, ie adv class grads, who'd helped and supported us all those six years. I was running for them! No. One. Else. Not for martindale, not for twi, not for the region guy.......the only way to stop the conflicts raging in my mind was to RUN THAT DAMN CLASS. Grandparents and aunts, and sisters were coming into OKC to help babysit advanced class grads' kids. My wife nearly avoided me the whole week. She focused on the boys and kept her distance (from me). She was supportive......but, as always, gave me my space. The weight was all on me! With all the communication flying back and forth, I wasn't even sure I had all the facts about the hq-incident. And, apparently I didn't (because years later here at GSC) more facts spilled forth that I did not know. So.....once this class was over, then I could decide then. I shut out the world around me......and ran the class. Following Week The phone lines were quiet. Everyone in the state was exhausted......most men, back to work......women, work, kids and school prep. My wife and I, too, were talking about the boys and school. We had worked the whole damn weekend......crap, probably put in our 40+ hour week by then. I had no guilt, NONE, about not being at my desk. My attention was now, front and center, on my family. Yeah....everything was still swirling, but I just needed a few days to stop.........running. And......that's what I did.

Three Weeks: Torrents and Whirlpools Mid-July ------> By Day: All the reports, faxes, phone calls, prep for meetings, and the 4th advanced class weekend fast approaching, it took everything in my willpower to stay focused on ministry work. Thankfully, the region guy left me alone Monday-Wednesday....I'm sure that he, too, had his hands full in Texas. But when Thursday and Friday drew near......I dreaded throughout the day when he might call. Fridays were the worst, because we had to get those weekly reports from all the corps in the state (in 30-minute slot increments).......I still can't believe we did that......and ours, and fax them to the region. Within 2 hours, he generally would mark them all up with comments or big ??? (marks).....and then, I'd have to try and read between the lines of THAT, before faxing back. During the day.......it felt like a torrent of water pouring over my head !! By Night: Talking with my wife and all the issues.......ministry events, the boys, their schooling, the fall semester, neglecting the boys, etc. etc. See, that's the thing about life....it just DOES NOT STOP to let you handle one issue at a time. Nope. It came in waves upon waves.....lapping into the shores of our lives. Decisions. Decisions. Guilt. Shame. Conflict. Anger. Defiance. How dare the region guy keep leaning on us to insert himself into our family/children. With each passing day, I was becoming more defiant to "throw my damn corps nametag at him"......and yell, screw it, I quit. Trying to keep my anger from boiling over was extremely challenging. More phone calls. I received four or five calls from corps grads in other states who wanted my advice. They, too, had become privy to segments of this "sexcapade" at hq...and conflicted in their decisions. I flat out told most every one, we were in the process of turning in our corps status. We just had to wait and finish this 4th weekend. The conflict of interest raged thru my soul.......what I wanted to do versus what I was expected to do. And, advanced class grads throughout the state were looking forward to the final session. They'd built their expectations for this. They'd paid for it. Babysitters were lined up weeks in advance to pull this off. Some even had relatives in from other states, grandma or aunt to babysit their kids.....while these advanced class grads attended Fri/Sat/Sun sessions. The promotion and preparation had been coming down the pike for a year. I. Felt. So. Awful. What. Was. I. To. Do? Hell, I was the limb coordinator with the damn bullhorn trying to cheer it on. Late at night: .....I felt like I was being sucked into a whirlpool. The emotional turbulence was overwhelming me. As I said before, I was sleeping on the sofa....or sitting in the recliner.......for hours. Watching dials click to 1:31am, 2:20am, 3:12am.

Insert: Diving Deeper: Extraction, Extrication, Extrapolation Please indulge me this one more insert before moving on: Example: Movie "The Impossible" --- Spoiler Alert (just in case): Naomi Watts (character) and her son are in dire straits and she is deeply injured with more complications setting in. Nevertheless, she and her son reach out to help another little boy to save him as well. A dramatic outcome is revealed at the end of the movie. IMO......naomi & son were struggling to extricate themselves from the tsunami aftermath, yet still took time to extract this little boy. Extrication: Here at GSC, some have rhetorically raised the point, "Where are those clergy/corps to help untangle and free others from the cult?" Where are those defining boundaries? Have those who remain in splinter groups been extracted/extricated from wierwille doctrine and/or cult? Extrapolation: Some drive-bye posters at GSC have thrown their judgments and opinions at us.....with no critical thought of our lives or experiences. They draw their conclusions and results from predetermined sources. The far extreme position: anyone who is posting on this site is possessed.

Undertow is selling now on Amazon. For you folks who have read it, might I suggest (or request) you post a review to Amazon (even though you may not have purchased your copy from them)? I posted mine. Thanks.

twi's not the only group to use meetings in homes. However, they do serve both the purpose of "we're not spending a nickel on anything we don't have to-all the money stays at the top" and "we're in someone's home, crossing their personal boundaries", and that's for all sorts of groups. Of course, meeting in a living room can also be done innocently and socially, but that wasn't twi's way. It WAS the way some people did it in twi, but that was almost an accidental by-product of the process, like drawing in real Christians into the web of exploiters and con artists.

Sounds like maybe you don't necessarily really disagree. It's obviously not an either/or. The home church model is about promoting emotional intimacy, isn't it? As with most other aspects of twi, there wasn't much genuine training or leadership on how to keep things above board, establish appropriate emotional/social boundaries or keep people from preying on vulnerable members.

Hey Twinky, What I think on this is that the fellowship in the home is a mixed bag. There is the intimacy side of it which is appealing. However, in general, it taught people to cross personal boundaries. People usually keep their lives and their families protected in their own home. But with fellowship in the home, and the love-bombing culture, I think what it accomplished is systematically breaking down personal boundaries. The fruit or result of this is you would see people very willing to comment on and control others in areas where they had no business - it crossed personal boundaries. Finances, child care, careers, sex, nothing was maintained as taboo for boundary crossing in discussing or controlling in another. I think the "touch" thing is kind of personal. Some people like to be touched, others less so. I'm more of the "don't touch me" makeup. I think though more importantly that the crossing of boundaries is what was set up there. And the mental conditioning to accept the crossing of boundaries passively without fighting. This produces an environment that is groomed for predators. And the Way had many predators. Many of them stayed hidden. Some of the worst were exposed, like Victor Barnard. People use and manipulate each other in the Way for more than just sex though. The caste hierarchy certainly shows a good element of the same type of behavior David Miscavage shows in Scientology with the propensity for abuse. And many other types of abuse. Boundaries. If you are or have been in the Way for a long time you might want to check yours. You may find they have been murdered by a hit and run. The murdered boundaries in the sexual category are especially egregious. They have caused documented suicides.

I remember someone telling me that, now that I had this insider information, the devil was going to put me on his hit list, or something to that effect. I found myself wondering how it had all gone from "You, too, can have the more than abundant life!" to 'The debuhl's gonna snuff you out, boy." in such a short time. Do you see why it was depressing?

MRAP....you seem to be missing the point. Wierwille was a man of wantonness [unrestrained, loose, wasteful, no moral fiber, etc].... and patterns of this unrestrained doctrine are embedded thru his teachings. But....this list: 1) swelling words of vanity, 2) alluring others, 3) lusts of the flesh, 4) through much wantonness, 5) living in error, 6) promise followers liberty, 7) wierwille served corruption, 8) a false teacher brings BONDAGE to followers is the tell-tale signs of A FALSE TEACHER.