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Was in 8th Corps. Left around 86 whenever LCM said you had to have allegiance to him. Nice to connect with old friends here hopefully

Pause: Extrication.......perhaps, a deeper way to view this would be like the movie The Impossible........all the inter-connecting variables, dynamics, emotions, diligent searching, tossed in turbulent destruction and undertow, grasping, agonizing, emotional trauma......desperately working towards a positive outcome. ~~~~~~~~ In this movie, naomi watts (wife/mother of 3) was deeply injured by the tsunami wave while her family was vacationing in Thailand. Her injuries intensified and she was fighting for her life. Family members were separated. All those in the family had their own trauma (as well as all other "vacationers"). A sequential unfolding of pain, suffering, agony, family reconciliation, etc......and an ending that left the moviegoer to see the emotional toil that would linger. Even more so now, I see the extrication element and why I saw this movie, twice. And yes, I cried.

Pause to explain: Right now, in real time.......I'm sipping on a corona, it's the nearest I can get to a beach. The wind chill is -3 and the tv evening news is in the background.....the ft. lauderdale killing of 5 shot dead, many wounded. Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care? Does anybody really want to hear my extrication story.....the other bookend? Another couple bottles of corona.....and I might just fade away. I have no notes.....but can pretty much surmise, by going to the 1998 calendar (the internet is awesome)... Four Weekends in OKC: Adv Class Weekends First weekend.....May 8-10, 1998 Second...............June 12-14, 1998 Third...................July 10-12, 1998 Fourth.................Aug 7-9, 1998 By early June, my wife and I were in deep conflict about the upcoming school year. Both boys were in really good schools, at those junctures where having them stay right here in OKC was a perfect fit.....but our region leaders were leaning on us to move to hq. It's time......they'd said, "you've been here for six years.....hq has a need for you to be there." Our corps assignment had been to stay in OKC, but the La1lys were making phone calls to us and leaning on us to change and go hq......... things were swirling as the "money iceberg" toll on the hull was taking twi down. I don't remember when martindale stated publically that the "revelation" had changed......and now, field corps were going off payroll. Anyways......we were nearing the precipice of it all by July 1st.......and that's about when "the second bookend" starts. ~~~~~~~ Going for another beer...........now, back to real time, Jan 2017......what year am I in? The dates, past 1998.....further back, 1981......and, trying to retell this story to you in 2017. Now, I have much more of the background that has filled in......and a totally different world. And, now (?) JYDL......being installed as 4th president !?! Four twi-presidents......spent time with them all Wierwille Martindale Rivenbark JYDL Four Weekends.......we were nearing the precipice of the third. Four Guys in a mile relay.....maybe, I'll drink beer the rest of the night and let my high school memories carry me away..........

<takes a seat and pulls out a menu> Hello All- There's quite a bit to unpack from 30 years. Bare with my rambling thoughts as they all get down. A third-generation "legacy", I only knew TWI as truth absolute. A child of the 80's, I remember growing up and having The Way being the only way. I took each class in the entire class series the exact week I was eligible, and repeated every chance I could. I only knew LCM as the fount-head of all things godly, and worshipped with (at) him through the birth of the new class. I soldiered on through his fall and stood behind my identity as a chosen part of the faithful remnant throughout the early 2000's. I pursued a degree and lead fellowships, certain I held forth what I knew to be the epicenter of the spiritual world. Once I got close to graduation, the promise of getting a job became VERY real. In a market the began to shrivel, I went from interview to interview, each time putting in hours of deliberate, thoughtful prayer and reflection, certain that the God I knew dwelt in my fellowships and that I was told would never let any wrong befall would come through in the clutch. Each time, nothing. Each time, disappointment. Each time, words came from those more seasoned as "Renew Your Mind", "It's not the spiritually best for YOU!", "God's got something bigger for YOU!". This was the first time I needed to prove God had my back. Long story short, I cobbled together enough to get by, but nothing close to the Eph 3:20 I was told time and time again. I got married, to an amazing and supportive spouse, who left her church to join up. She realized if she wanted tot be with me, she had to drink the Koolaid, and drink she did. She practically did a keg stand with that Hawaiian punch. Together, we weathered many situations that were far from the rosy scenes painted on STS tapes (or CDs or VHSs). Real life was hard as hell, and the God of the lectern and the magazine was not as quick to come through. There was always an explanation, mind you, but should not have to be this hard. "Maybe we're not studying enough. Maybe and hour daily is just a start.". "Are we giving enough? We're at 20%, but could we do more to prove our commitment to God and not our paycheck". We ABSed our meager earnings, lived in apartments, drove our terrible, leaky, beaten cars, and gladly taught others on how much God loved us and would provide. Any positive event in life was championed as proof of TWI's system. It began to seem like a lens that made all the bad not their fault and any positive thing their cause. Perspective. Fast forward to a fourth generation being born. Numerous requests from insiders to go on Staff and change from within. By this time, my life had changed. The grind of finally getting (and keeping) a real job meant hard work. I began to feel like everything in the ministry was a motion. Same old collaterals. The articles in the magazine were SOOOO predictable, as were the overly scripted services. Title, personal anecdote, verses, three main points, conclusion, blanket "Let's continue to..." statement... repeat. I felt as if I wasn't learning anything. To challenge myself and scratch my own spiritual and intellectual itch, I started my own studies and digging. ANy time I would bring these up, I was chastised for going solo and delving into what was already researched. I should re-search what is already available. By this time, I could hear an introduction and immediately know which verses would come up. One STS, I wrote on my wife's notes five verses. Sure as dang, each one was ticked in the course of that scripted speech teaching. I stopped taking notes. I stopped putting time into my teachings at fellowships. I started coasting. I could see others going through the same motions. I used to talk about all of the interesting connections and parallels the moment a great teaching was done. Now I saw how quickly others began talking about their week, their boring lives, their.... anything but the bible. Truth was, it was the collaterals being taught again and again and again. LCM was disavowed, never to be mentioned. All that was safe was the collaterals. So that's were everything went, and still are. Last flash is to the moment I realized how crumby the long-term TWI plan is for those out in the field. Find a menial job, work hard and don't rock the boat. Try to witness but we only need seats for the class- if it's just a connection, move it along. SELL SELL!!!! Find an apartment, move every few years, drive a 5 year+ model car (and keep that cardboard so you don't mess up the driveway). Long-term planning? You don't need that. God's got you. I woke up one day to realize my parents have no retirement and no equity of ANY kind. I didn't want that. I began looking at houses and tried every way to get one without getting a loan. Couldn't do it, so I tried to ask permission. Another post needs to explain this hot mess, but needless to say it was not on the menu. I forged ahead to the disapproval of many. Kid number two arrives- I stop going to STS. Our last trip, I don't even open my bible. I hear and scrutinize the entire presentation better than I had every encapsulated with my notes. (Oh the notes, but I digress...). On our way home, my wife says "What an electrifying teaching!". I let the air clear for about 5 seconds and say "Was it?". Her face was as white as the audience at any given STS. We then discuss very openly our current role in the ministry and where we saw our spiritual lives. Needless to say, it was the beginning of the end. We limped along for a few more years, mainly because of the sweet people that genuinely did care about others and the large family/friend connections. This is certainly a fact that cannot be overlooked, but we were killed with kindness and not won by spiritual truth. We eventually decide to skip fellowship for any convenient reason, attend other church services on Sunday mornings, and try on many religions/denominations. It came to a road that lead to us moving and telling our new coordinators we were out. I felt it necessary to go out on my terms, not middle-fingers a-blazing, but with a truthful talk. We left about two years ago. There were some rough times, including much anger that has not fully gone away. I still struggle with what could have been or should have been, a fact that I can't completely let go of, but am getting closer. I burned my syllabi and collaterals, but still have their haunting memory (and .pdfs! that's a fun post as well!) in my mind. Religion is no longer something I value, and, current spiritual beliefs aside, I was able to emerge with clear and cogent truths I hold to, truthfulness and integrity being paramount. I have spiritually sherpa'd a few others out of TWI, and gotten immense satisfaction for helping them think and process, not just bad-mouthing their religion. It's rewarding to truly help people, not blanket their needs in retemories or promises of a brighter day that never comes. It's rewarding to see them break the chain of mediocrity and a quiet life of apartments and ABSing to pay for staff cars (another post). I loved helping them and reassuring them the devil will not take them should they decide to take off the name tag. My bourbon is getting low, as is my battery. Time to refill both. I have lots to say, and not sure how much/when to do it. I have many damning things, but not sure how it could help me or others. I don;t want to go back to the post-exit anger and rage that consumed my evenings (too late for that today! Oh well...), but I think a healthy processing and sharing for those who discover this site (like I did) will help clearer thoughts and heads prevail. I know TWI is not the epicenter of the spiritual world. I know TWI is pyramid of those working the ladder upward. I know TWI is a shell built on a few books and lock-step loyalty. I know that 30 years is far too much CollateralDamage.

Thankfully, our two boys never had to run the gauntlet of classes and twi-indoctrination where there is NO LIGHT at the end of such striving. Where would our lives be today if we'd kept prevailing (cough, cough) in twi's cornfield? As we were exiting, my Region coordinator smugly told me that Martindale was going to assign me to the Presidents' Cabinet at HQ. Wowsers. I am SO GLAD that we never got pulled back into that snare again. The micromanagement, the monitoring, no life to call your own......and what about our boys? Looking back, I shudder to imagine how things would have turned out. Would twi have allowed my oldest son the time and space to study and excel in high school? in college? in medical school? More than likely, there would have been corps grads along the way to browbeat and belittle his "secular" studies. What about the guilt that builds inside from such manipulation? Heck, I've read articles that the suicide rate amongst medical students is very high.....let alone a student who graduates #1 and gets the chancellor award in a class of 300+ medical students. Thank God my son was far removed from twi by then. On one hand, twi boasts of "believing" to live the more abundant life......YET, they demean THE YEARS OF DEDICATION AND ACTION that it takes to get from point A to point B. Are the directors and corps grads THAT clueless? Are they so regimented in lockstep loyalty that they cannot see their demented logic? Sure, Dr. Carol-yn R@wlins was committed to twi.....BUT she had made her journey and reputation years before hearing pfal. Are all those innie kids going to follow in the path of brian moneyhands or j2p2? The gauntlet of classes and indoctrination......I remember. I was in college when I started thru this gauntlet. Month after month, the leadership was lining up ANOTHER class for us pfal grads to take. They were poking and prodding us onward. Don't look back. And, twig after twig, they'd end it with a plug for going wow ambassador. Go and grow with God. Subtle, slick indoctrination. And, even though I decided to give 'a year to God' as a wow, I had every intention of finishing college. But the seduction of twi's indoctrination had a way of subverting my soul. Why give heed to secular learning when God has/had a much higher calling for your life? Go Corps. Looking back, I see whole swaths of corps grads whose lives have been upended, divorced and destroyed. Dozens and dozens of my fellow corps have run the gauntlet and succumbed to defeat. Heck, look at martindale, the corps mascot. Where is HE today? Divorced. Devoured. Dethroned. WARNING: Run the gauntlet at your own risk. .

Been reading here lately and in correspondence and thinking a bit. It's all very well having meetings in the home - "home church" - good idea, keeps things intimate. Too intimate. I imagine the original idea was to avoid shelling out $$ for meeting rooms or building places (like church buildings!). But meeting in the home had a dual purpose. Think how lovey-dovey everyone was. Greeted with hugs and kisses, despite not knowing the greeter well and perhaps despite one's own personal reservations. Everyone squished on couches or chairs during fellowship, and again after fellowship when things might be more relaxed. There came also more hugs and the back rubs and shoulder rubs, in sympathy or whatever. All this can be nice, can be friendly. It was a sort of enforced intimacy that could be manipulated by some. Everyone wanted to be round a charismatic leader. But what if that charismatic leader had other ideas? In the "group hug" on the couch, ostensibly putting arms along the couch back, perhaps, then allowing them to stray onto the shoulders of young women? Seeing who shied from that touch and who didn't. The occasional "accidental" brush of the hand in an inappropriate way. A too-long hug when people were leaving. And then, at bigger fellowships, everyone was used to this behavior because it had become the norm. So on coming into contact with the more rapacious type of leader - well, the softening up had already taken place. Rather than "promoting harmony in the home," I'm coming to the conclusion that meeting in the intimate home setting, where people's guard is down somewhat, was the start of the grooming process for the sexual abuse for young women. A lot of this unwanted touching just wouldn't have got started, would have been rejected earlier, if meetings had taken place other than in homes. Who smooches up like this in a church? In a meeting in a public room at the library or town hall or school hall? In a park or beach meeting? Thoughts, anyone?

ouch....I felt that all the way over here!

Insert: Last one, before moving on......I promise. When I typed those 36 pages (double-spaced....because that's how wierwille wanted it)...........I typed this long paragraph with a subtitle "Caught in a Web." The process of getting out of that deprogramming captivity felt like being so entangled, I could hardly get out. As I sat there with wierwille, little did I understand any of it at all...........I was STILL in the web....even more so. I was looking at the "spider."

Undertow is selling now on Amazon. For you folks who have read it, might I suggest (or request) you post a review to Amazon (even though you may not have purchased your copy from them)? I posted mine. Thanks.

For TBone:

A REAL Doctor......of music!

Take as much time as you need (obviously) ... I can only imagine how difficult it is to reconstruct from very difficult memories your pathway OUT. You were in for so many years. [I was in from '77 to '92. But really, after 1986 I'd only go to fellowships sporadically ... around the time folks were splintering off following either Geer or Lynn or Finnigan back in NY where I lived. Technically, I split for good around '92, but in reality, it was about the time of that '89 loyalty letter from LCM that I felt that ole rebel in me rising up (how dare he ask the corps to become loyal to HIM ... what the heck ever happened to Jesus?!) That's when I made the decision to walk away from twi ... but not fellowships. Somehow, I could separate the two, as there were a bunch of "rebels" in NYC around that time too, and we were all appalled by the dancing Okie's audacity displayed in that loyalty letter.] Just for a little levity here . . . and to illustrate just what we all GOT AWAY FROM -- and to remind ourselves of what we will never, ever, EVAH have to sit through again -- I thought I'd post this clip from Talk Soup! (I'm sure most here have seen it -- but when I do, I never cease to become so full of thanks for having gotten OUT!) Shoot me now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-bojwApWyY

Pause to explain: There are so many ways to explain "extrication" that someone could come up with a whole series of links or psychological diagrams to explain it. Here at GSC......I'm not sure I've ever read a personal point-by-point detailed explanation on "extricating oneself from a cult." I think DWBH covered some of his experience in his audio interview with Pawtucket years ago. Extrication from a cult is a grueling, arduous, dismantling process:...........ie. doctrine, relationships, emotions, connections, memories, associations, etc. Perhaps, a similar comparison is: divorce.....married 33 yrs, kids, home, investments, rt funds, ------ separating it out, two people moving away from each other Vehicle extrication Extraction -- (chemistry) Extrication from a cult is EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. The longer one is in Involvement level Associations, relationships, memories, emotions, The longer one's in.....more ties cut from family, friends, neighborhoods, networks. And.......I haven't really even gone into a deep dive of thinking about this. The extrication process of getting out.......much harder than getting in..... (think--car accident & then, extrication) Extrication is different than extraction. Extrication.....releasing or disentangle from a net (web).

Nothing can encapsulate this era without spotlighting the martindale's "revelation" claim.......that all active field corps be full-time ministers, salaried by twi. Those 36-months (3 years).......seemed like every month martindale had us chasing something else, much like a cat is trying to chase down a darting laser beam from a small flashlight. The paper blizzard....as I've often referred to, was the faxes, memos, updates, reports, guidelines, policies, and the reporting back to limb/region/trunk respectively. Listed below is a sample of that: 1995 full-time corps "revelation" .......all the corps were inundated with reporting back to twi leadership. I tend to believe that the trunk office issued this paper blizzard to appease martinfail's screaming episodes and micromanaged leadership style. Quite obvious to me.....martinfail didn't trust the corps to do their ministerial duties. The paperwork was multi-faceted. Branch guys reported to the limb, the limb to region, the region to trunk, the trunk to bot. The following are some of the reports that I recall: --Time-Analysis Report....each week, this report was a projected schedule of the corps person's week detailing 6am - 11pm in 30-minute time slots. After about one year, lcm instructed region & limb guys to scrutinize these reports and strongly recommend changes (each week). --Witnessing Report....each week, this report was a detailed analysis of how many in your area went witnessing, the number of contacts, the number of follow-ups, the number who attended fellowships as a result, the number who signed up for WAP, etc. --Petty Cash Report....each branch, limb and region were allocated a level of petty cash. Branch corps, generally, consisted of two or three fellowships and didn't utilze petty cash reports except for times when lcm designated 8 consecutive public/formal branch meetings during the videotaping of WAP. All expenses over $100 had to be cleared by the region guy. The region guy could spend up to $300 before the trunk got involved. --Yearly Budget Reports....this report had to be cleared through twi's personnel department. With some 600+ corps/families on payroll, this was a monumental task to sort thru the "needs" of every corps family, every situation. Some parents had a child in a musical instrument class, or a karate class, or a voice lessons class, etc. Martindale blasted the corps on a corps meeting for spending "excess money" on their children. --[Note: Pet policies, gift-giving policies, pregnancy policies, traveling policies, cable tv policies, etc......these came into play as the mountain of corps expenses soared far beyond anything martindale had foreseen.] --Monthly Progress Report....(whatever it was called??) detailed each branch's progress on class sign-ups (fnd, int, ac, etc). Month after month, it seemed like there were always goose eggs (zeros) in the blanks. --Trunk Faxes.....reporting back on specific policies or corps meeting assignments was common. The corps were responsible to listen to lcm's sts tape on tuesday or early wednesday each week BEFORE the corps phone hookup. Trunk faxes were common and demanded a quick response. Sometimes, corps would be up until midnight to meet the fax deadline. --Greetings Faxed to Trunk....as the paper-insantiy escalated, the corps seemed to be competing as to who could send in the most heartfelt greeting for twi's anniversary, for thanksgiving, for twi's holiday party, for the new year's, etc. --Thank You Cards.....it became mandatory for each branch, each area to send a unique, handmade, personalized card to lcm after each WAP class. Every student was to sign the card and detail what blessed them specifically in the class. Those who had bigger branches, bigger limbs, bigger regions had MORE paperwork to do. It wasn't any secret why MANY region couples had no kids. No time. There were more reports, but I think you get the gist of it. I know lots of people criticize their corps leadership, but from one who was in the midst of this paper blizzard.....it was one hell of a ride! .

Charlene, my unconfirmed USA numbers count from around the vicinity of 10 years ago was about 4500 in the United States total. Even then they were making all the fellowship coordinators get permission from the Trunk office to remove a member from the rolls. Even then they wanted this info concealed - even the region coordinators didn't have hard numbers of other regions. I don't know hard numbers now, I'm sure that is something the BODummies wants to keep concealed. My guess would be about 50% of those numbers currently, after rfr went on various rampages kicking people out. I mean 2500 may not be 100% accurate, but I bet you it is not an order of magnitude off, like it's not 25,000 in the US. Basically the Way's membership in the US (which is kind of funny because on one hand they say they don't have any members, on the other they have these processes to keep people on the books?) is about the same as a medium sized community church in a larger city.

What harm IS being done to those still involved? Well......1) TWI is anti-family. It splits and divides families----- example in recent thread, Getting daughter/son out of the way 2) TWI is manipulative, coercive and exploitive------later in life, lots of people regret the deceptive ploy. Loss of opportunities, stolen lives. 3) TWI is bondage, not freedom of true choice. Why do you think that wierwille selectively cherry-picked certain scriptures? 4) TWI does not allow open discussion or open questioning. You always know who rules over you, by who you are NOT allowed to question. 5) TWI incorporates modern-day phariseeism.......it oppresses the vulnerable and weak. Read the 4 gospels. 6) TWI operates under the guise of a non-profit organization.....yet, does NOT do charitable work in any sense of the word. 7) This is NOT about Jean-Yves, per se..........its about a shadowy corporation that hides its intent and masks its true nature.

Why risk expelling all doubt of their stupidity by opening their mouths? Thankfully I'm not even remotely curious about what is going on with them anymore and I am grateful for those who expose them for what they are - which is basically people who don't play well with others so they started their own thing to get money from people who actually work for a living.