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First I'd like to thank Pawtucket and team for giving me the opportunity to share my story thank you and cheers Background Greetings all I'm a former member of twi New Zealand from the age of 4 to my exit at the age of 26.My accounts and events are from the years of 1992 to 2014.Currently living in Australia while my mother who is still an innie in NZ. My story Where it all begun was in 1992 I was 5years old and my mother had just been witnessed to by a team of two who were doing door to door.At the time twig as it was known then was 2mins up the road and I attended children's fellowship.Times were tough for me and my mother as her and my father were fighting as to why she all of sudden wanted to join this 'church' Long story short not long after my mother had taken PFAL my father and mother split and I was to stay with my mother and twi Being an only child I was around twi children who I grew up and lived with as i progressed through the years.During the years I grew up idolising Martindale and Mice@l Adams Nz country coord to this day.I cringe at this thought now im more focused on wanting ti br a better me.I had plans to enter Way Corp, go way disciple heck I wanted to take twi all over Nz! During the 90's I was able to witness alot of the purging that was going on I would see alot of people come and go and the part I would get confused at the time was the labels these people would get like 'he's possessed' she was not abundantly sharing enough she believed in the trinity this whole time blah blah.Sad part about it was I thought that I believed such lies about people who I once called uncle or aunt were now being marked and avoid at the time.Allan who I believe posts here on GSC is probably NZ twi enemy number one!he made such headway that leadership view him as a big threat know we we see why?! Allan kudos to you I stand with you brother The new millenium brought a new change for me I was just starting high school and I knew I was starting to change personally.My friends would want to hang out with me but at times I would say sorry we were running a class in our home.Me and mother were actually staying with a gung ho couple who were sold out to twi we ran up 7 classes in 1 year went witnessing almost every week.Almost on a daily basis I was reproved or should I say reamed for small issues backed up spirtually of course!As a 15 year old I was being torn down by these branch coord who were loving sweet dovey dove publicly around other 'believers' but tyrants in private.After 4 long years living with this family me and mother decided to live apart and move into our own house.We had lived with 6 families in a span of 12 years talk about being unsettled at different schools all for the sake of moving the word in that area 'oh you should move near leadership' or that area is not 'spiritually clean' As 2006 approached I was headed for the advanced class all the way in USA Ohio.In my mind at the time I thought I was headed for the land that flowed with milk and honey! I was to find not soo true according to what I have seen and heard here.As a young 18 year old it was my first time out of NZ and I was very excited to see Hq.I came back pumped up and ready to take twi in NZ to the next level A couple of years later in 2008 me and a friend did the Advanced class special 2008, boy If leadership only knew what we got up to before we wouldve been reproved big time haha.During special I also fell asleep during one of Rosalies welcome speech!JYDL had shown disapproval at next morning breakfast. The guy next to me was not impressed or room coordinator getting tired of waking us up in Founders hall poor guy! what can you do I was still adjusting to different time zones As the years progressed I moved out of home and got into the real world.I still attended fellowship saw the same people, sang same songs, gave the same message in SIT and prophecy and yes it's true all the teachings are from the collaterals.Rinse,wash and repeat.As 2011 approached I was having alot of doubts and started to wonder if my heart was in it.My teachings were often corrected right after fellowship was told your messages are the same in SIT your abs is short as they record what you give or it is given as a donation don't you want protection in your life?!The list goes on.. I found myself living in Trumans world After venturing out on my own in 2012 I really got a taste of freedom in California but not before being told this person has fellowship etc.. you should go where the 'believers' are why don't you go to HQ?Deep down I said stuff that! I want to go see some chicky babes surf sand and sun it's California baby! I met a girl and really had a great time with her and pour ed my heart she had actually shared how her mother was part of the cult children of God and how she had split from it and how her life had changed for the better.I knew I wanted that freedom too.It wasnt until 2 years later till that day finally came. .. It dawned on me that I wasn't getting any younger I was 25 and I said to myself can I continue doing something my heart wasn't into?can I still put 30 min of teachings together when I don't even believe what I'm saying!Do I want to be continually checked or am I spiritually fit as to why I wasn't at fellowship when I called/text to say I wasn't coming? did I have to scrape my last monies just so I could reach the ABS amount without being screened or questioned.Many more...these thoughts battled me until December 2013 when I decided I wanted to be free I remember waiting anxiously shaking like I was about to be executed waiting to tell my mother I wanted to leave the ministry.I remember her saying you know what the Devil is going to take you down!She was bawling her eyes out and yelling (twi programs and indoctrinates this kind of thinking) and I thought she was right as this was all I had known since a 5 year old.My mother had made the phone call on my behalf to Mice@l and he said I have the 'spirit of leviathan' and that I should go over dta syllabus and offered to pay 'a visit' in case any of you don't know dta is defearing the adversary class.I knew amongst all the fear,anxiety and stress I was not to going to participate I was sticking to my guns!After a couple of days I was in shock of what I had done.I truly believed at the time I was going to be killed because I had walked out of the 'household' It took me about a year a trip to Thailand and being out in the real world to realise hey I'm not that 'possessed or out to lunch as I have been labeled.Realising now that I was only programmed brainwashed to believe that the way was the only true place to be My biggest regret was not saying goodbye properly to all those friends and families I grew up with.There are some great people in the NZ twi.Know I did what was best for me and I can honestly say the grass is greener on the other side! !! I could share more on NZ side of things if any one would like to know more or you could private msg it is totally up to you! Oh btw the coffee in this cafe is awesome! Cheers from Straya D

Still on Pause: Prep Time As you see from the links, many GSC-posters have added different perspectives and lots of insight to spur on discussion. Many posters have moved on in life and no longer visit Paw's Café......but their pictures are on the walls all around. And to those posters still here....a significant amount of credit goes to them. Last night was a really tough night for me......the wave upon wave of memories shook me to my core. I haven't explored those deeply personal experiences of my 10-day captivity for over two decades.....not like that. I swore to have "thrown away the key." All the other timeline stuff is more accessible to my memory banks. I honestly thought I'd just skip the deprogramming episode, but now think that it's an integral part .... and perhaps, the central core....to exposing the cult. Another day or so....and I plan to "go to the depths of titanic on the ocean floor" to share it with you. .

Thanks Waysider! Skyrider Thanks I was moved by alot of your posts I can only sympathise with you and can only imagine what you and your family went through during your time with twi. My other regret was not leaving soon enough but I had so much fear thanks to the twi brainwashing techniques used by twi.I too also lost spent time with my grandparents who called out twi for calling it a cult when they found out their oldest grandson was not allowed to stay with them.At the time my grandad had even called authorities on twi.Mice@l and other 'hierarchy' even went around their house to try and intimidate my grandparents!! But you know I try and put the past behind me as I only get bitter and think how good I have it now.Soo skyrider keep posting I can only say proudly I stand with you on alot of things A bit about NZ twi up to 2014 my knowledge Has up to 50 faithful people alot of these are families with children 6 fellowships and 2 branches 90% fellowships are run in Auckland one in Hamilton Very slow growth of people coming maybe one newbie who sticks around 6 months then disappears.Who can blame them?! The mindset/goals is to witness! witness! Get them taking classes get them to advanced class level but make sure that they abs!!money money or else get out! Lots of talent within the group from musicians,lawyers,teachers,nurses etc. Just wish alot of those within the group would wake up and see the big hyprocisy lies and deception 90% of those who are in Auckland they are all mostly based in East Auckland $$$ The group of 50 have been almost the same since the new millenium.So you can see everyone is quite tightnit.Even though everyone is getting alot older now I know alot of time is not being spent as much as before NZ Twi has alot of small cliques same people hang out with same group of people eg. Household function, discos and even travel together. Me and my mother speak I love her very much she knows that.We speak occasionally as she is my only real family.Sad part is you know she will be in it for life but I respect her wishes and she respects mine.Even though she says from time to time over the phone 'the door is still open' and I'm like no way I'm doing way better now and il be the first to slam that door on twi! Oh well if you have any questions GSC posters fire away I'd be happy to reply Cheers

Welcome to Grease Spot HigherGround30 ! Thanks for sharing your story. So funny you meeting someone who was in children of god cult – I find sometimes I can better process (whatever that means ) an experience I’ve had when I check out how someone else is handling their own…maybe it’s just healing when we really connect with others – like on Grease Spot – not like the homogenized alternate world of cults. Hopefully – down the road there may be some “hello again” with friends and families – and regrets over not saying proper goodbyes will fade away. A very strange thing happened to me the other day. My wife and I were looking over our DNA results from one of those ancestry services (verified none of my ancestors were from Krypton) and an old high school friend called. I turned off so many of my friends being the witnessing zealot that I was back then. He asked me if I was still in that “Christian thing”. I said “hell no” and told him I realized it was a cult and got out. I’m hoping he’ll share that with some of our old group of friends…we talked for over an hour and it was so sweet! And it meant a lot that he looked me up and he called me. Is that your coffee mug? – bring it over here and I’ll get you a refill

The accumulative effect of these postings washed over my heart and soul last night.......I didn't fall asleep until after 3:30am. To be honest, for a couple of hours......I deeply evaluated whether I wanted to continue this thread or not. Even after I posted the pause button........the flickering of flashbacks continued until exhaustion gave way to sleep.....a restless sleep. Thank you for your words of encouragement and support. I appreciate it deeply. ~~~~~~~~~~ Still on Pause: Introspection These repressed memories had been flickering in my deep subconscious, more acutely, since 1996. At the risk of targeted symbolism, or mixing metaphors......the only way I can describe it is "jason bourne-esque." I knew deep within that somehow who I am and what I had become got altered, indoctrinated. With each new assignment, my skill sets were enhanced by "injections and blue pills" that made me dependent on consistent upgrades. The anguish struggle to find its starting point.....the "why" and "how" it happened was haunting my sleep, my very existence going forward. Those 10 days of deprogramming captivity were an abduction and intervention......my parents were immeasurably alarmed by the "cocaine of this cult." And further, they believed that my corps graduation would lead to more enhanced addiction. They were absolutely right.....and their love and parental concern for their son drove them to pursue this dramatic episode. But.....to their utter disappointment, I slipped away and ran back to my cult addiction and its "cocaine." In deviating from the "jason bourne" version, I met with the man (wierwille) who devised and implemented the hyper indoctrination and thus, continued on more assigned operations. Those assignments continued for years......until the poignant flashbacks, the struggle and grappling of self emerged to unravel my past. The deeper truths of those 10 days of captivity were still allusive to me when I sat with wierwille. I was still addicted to its cause and influence at the time .....and only years later, have I come to grips with the crushing realization of how it all happened. Just like bourne, I volunteered. Each incremental step lead to an outcome I didn't quite expect or endorse. I was deceived step by step......and allowed it to happen. Who were the real deprogrammers? Twi or "my captors"....?? Manipulation of One's Consent .

How familiar does any of this interview sound?

You might be able to view them on aetv.com also. Btw, the Hulu original series "The Path" will begin airing season two on January 25th.

It was so interesting seeing the episode with Miscavage's father. How he was in the Sea Org, which has parallels to Corps. Watching his ex-wife and all of his sons testifying to Anderson Cooper in unison about his evils, then knowing that his taking a stand and whistleblowing on his own son resulted in him having no communication with his family to the point of not even knowing grandchildren are born. It was also interesting about the little gift that left to his demise. Miscavage gave his father a Kindle that didn't have the whispernet turned off. So his father could browse the internet, and he did. He was looking for all the accolades for scientology, because they had helped the world so much. He was shocked when he saw people's true testimonies, which led to him awakening, then leaving later. It was interesting how brainwashed he was and a good part of that was censorship. They cut off all information coming to them from the outside world, and simply lived on whatever was fed to them internally. After years and years of a constant borrage of framing a perspective, it becomes a norm.

Was there also a book on or by Ermal Owens? I remember one of the last coherent thoughts I had while still in the Way was I wanted to do a research paper on the topic of debt using some of the history book material in the ministry. Looking at the practical side of things, how VP and Harry and Ermal mortgaged the Way out numerous times in the development of it to fund future growth. It would have made a great contrast to current debt policies. You know, because there isn't enough already out there to awake people from their hypocritical delusions of lording over others.

The funny thing is we look at that series on Scientology as therapeutic, enlightening, and helping our recovery. Can you surmise what things they are saying about it in the behind-closed-doors Pharisee meetings? "Oh, it must be inspired by seed of the serpent, behind the scenes. Leah Remini is possessed, being used by the debbil. And the sole purpose is to spin up blame for the ministry. She is inspiring all those people on GreaseSpot to tell stories, and they are debbil possessed too." How can I tell that's what they are doing? Because I used to think like that too while under the influence and authority of a cult. it wasn't until breaking the chains of that false authority that I started to develop a perspective that wasn't spiritual dumb@$$, and stopped being an overtly compliant tool leaving my brain as a dumping ground for whatever the current closest sycophant wanted to put in it.

More parallels - in Scientology there is always the promise of achieving a "higher level" if you just keep going, if you just spend more of your money for more classes and those sessions where you hold the cans and get interrogated. There is the highest level where you go Clear. For us it was also class after class until TaDa! The Advanced Class, the Holy Grail of spiritual enlightenment. And as it is in Scientology, once you get there it's not what it's cracked up to be but wait! There's another way to "grow spiritually". Go WOW. Even better go in the Corps! Then climb the ladder. Wow those ordained people must really be attuned spiritually. They must be walking by revelation all the time so if they tell me to do something it must be right even if I think it isn't because I'm at an inferior level. Like those levels in Scientology. Once you are Clear you are There. But once you get there it too is not all it's cracked up to be. And the money. The total disregard in both organization for the sacrifices being made to give and give at the expense of the members. An exScientology remarked that in the parking lot you could see the fancy cars and the beaters. The top echelon get the good ones and the run of mill underlings give and give and can't afford a decent car. And both organizations take the money and funnel it back into the organization and do nothing for those who give it for the purpose of the underlings (Joe Believer) is but to serve and give and give. Like in TWI we were told we would be "blessed" to serve. But where was this elusive "blessing" we were supposed to receive? Those at The Top sure seemed blessed. Surely God would bless us too if we just kept going and going. The former Scientologists in this series all shared that they reached a breaking point that it was IT and they did whatever it took to get out. Just as many of us did. When we knew that we never would get that carrot on a stick and we'd had it. One of the exScientoligists, upon being asked how much he had gotten over it all, said he sometimes went days without thinking about Scientology, Same here. But just as they say, it's never totally over. But they have gone on and reclaimed their lives as we have. Leah Remini left Scientology in 2013 and said some things about what she's going through and I could relate to that phase when you're making that transition, which to me is the first few years. Then you're living your life free of that cult and don't think of it for days.

I've been watching that Scientology series. I am totally fascinated. Parallel after parallel. Brings back memories of TWI. In the series a member was tasked by top dog David Miscavage to get all the sidewalks torn up so demonstrators wouldn't be able to get too close to their properties. Needless to say, member didn't accomplish this and was rebuked and physically assaulted by Miscavage. Reminded me of all that we were required to do per the directives of our "superiors" but never could measure up and were either subjected to rebuke or lived in fear of it. And of course there is the parallel of being ostracized if we committed some kind of what Scientology calls "crimes". The loss of our relationships that weren't TWI connected. They were unbelievers or Earthly family. In Scientology they are Suppressive Persons. The spying on and reporting of other members. Leah Remini shared how she had voiced some doubts to her closest of friends and they reported her and she was severely chastised and threatened. Brought back a memory of how I was asked by someone if I ever thought of leaving. I honestly told him well yes sometimes. Next thing I know here comes T L@lly branch leader asking me to see him the next day. I was so scared I couldn't sleep. The ensuing meeting was him yelling at me for at least an hour, a barrage of accusations some based on fact and others totally off the wall. But who was I to talk back or defend myself since he was The Man of God in the state. It reduced me to a blubbering pile of tears and then he came out from behind hid desk and hugged me. Talk about crazy-making! To this day I can recall this meeting and it hurt me for a long time. The person I am now would say Fu€k Off and walk out. .

However, it IS still available to get a hold of Whiteside's book.

penworks book Undertow gives detailed insight into early Corps years as well as how the Way does Biblical research. A must read for understanding the Way and what they call "Biblical Research". Karl Kahler's book - I just read through it recently. It has detailed accounts about early ministry days with Way West and Way East and Doop and Heefner. More detailed even than posts here. It is $6 for a .pdf copy. Kristin's book details the largely hidden swinger club aspects of top Way leadership among other things. All of these books represent a more accurate depiction of The Way International's history than anything the Way has released. The Way has released 2 history books - one written by Mrs. VPW called "Born Again to Serve". Or more accurately written by others from Mrs. W's memorabilia collection and reviewed and confirmed by her. The book was published shortly before she died - she had no desire to write books at that age. That was all pushed by Rosie. That book basically is a VP biography from 1916 to 1961. The other is no longer sold in the Way bookstore - Elena Whiteside's book "The Way Living in Love". This was more of a hippie child depiction of way history and includes all of the supposed revelation to VPW of snow pumps and God talking directly to him all surrounding a time period where he went to an Oral Roberts revival and faked speaking in tongues on the stage with a group of other ministers. Current pushes in the Way are to hide this material and whitewash it generally. One can read I John and know where that leads spiritually.

Watching the Scientology series is enough for me. Some of the parallels are chilling.

No More Twi-Policy Additions: I will NOT be adding any more long-form "twi-policy positions" to this thread......links (maybe), but no more full-length documented forms and dissecting their component parts. All of that is just "too much in the weeds" and puts ugly policies in the spotlight. My purpose is to expose the personal, destructive nature of the beast......and spear it to death.

That's the TRUTH! The fact that there were and are no boundaries... no respect for individuals... ensures that The Way International will die. It might be a painfully slow death, but it WILL die. The fact that there's no understanding of nor respect for personal boundaries undercuts the entire system. That's at the ROOT of inability to adapt when it becomes obvious that doctrines/dogmas/teachings are flawed. It's at the ROOT of the practical issues that make the organization unsustainable from generation to generation. Jesus cut to the chase when he responded to the Pharisees who asked him about the greatest commandment, in Matthew 22:36-40, Wierwille used to say that things were to be used, people were to be loved. But he absolutely did not grasp how to put that into practice, especially with the Way Corps(e). Wierwille and Martindale used people. And they did a fine job of crafting language that made it seem justified before God. But the fact that they disrespected the needs, especially the emotional and social needs of people, it was still using people. Because their practice ran counter to Jesus' teaching as to the greatest commandments, the entire "tree" was rotten.

VeePee liked celebrities... but he didn't hook enough of them to raise his public profile to near the degree that Scientology has. Hence, there's little interest in a similar broadcast video like the series Remini has been doing. But if you run across anyone with deep pockets that wants to do something big to expose fundamentalist cults, check in with Penworks. I'm sure she could get such a project off the ground (if funding were found).

Parenting, Children and School: All those years in twi.....and, rarely, was parenting, children and/or school a priority. As limb coordinators, this work load was gaining on us and crowding out areas of main concern......namely, 1) our children and 2) school. It seemed like the months of November and December brought these issues forward, front and center. Things like those parent-teacher conferences and holiday activities at school. Both our sons were good students.....establishing strong study habits (thanks mainly to my wife) and confidence by achievements. Clearly, I could understand why the majority of region couples had no kids.....or one. The workload and travel responsibilities were immense. While in Canada, I had vast responsibilities and was challenged with the metric system, different currency, another language (whenever I traveled into Montreal or Quebec City or New Brunswick), flying to Vancouver and Calgary......but our first son was a baby, then. Fast-forward another eleven years and parenting was constant involvement and interaction. Anyways......I'm rambling. You get the point. Going to Dallas each year during Thanksgiving (for six days) was not helping matters. Why was twi encroaching on EVERY holiday out there? And, more.....why were they instilling a cult-tweaked version of every one of them? No boundaries. It. Was. A. Cult. Every doctrine espoused by them needed to be embraced by us?? Screw that. I have my own family traditions that I want to pass on to my children. And....education. Twi feigned to show support for higher education, but it was little more than lip-service. How about our young adults with masters and doctorate degrees advancing into circles of influence, wealth and prestige? Or, business and professionals, computer techs, and web designers, and communication specialists? Dream big...why not? Or.....maybe have your kid go into the corps program, like I did? ppfffffttt. You know why this stuff wasn't discussed or taught? Because it was.......wait for it..........."worldly." LOL .

Advanced Class Grads: Before moving on, I would like to give a shoutout to advanced class grads. I know that this timeline is focused on my limb coordinator experience and the full-time corps aspects......but really, I could give dozens and dozens of accounts of the many wonderful advanced class grads near and far. When we ran classes, none of it would have been possible, in depth and heart, without the support and giving of your talents and time. Branch meetings, special seminars, Pentecost weekends, limb events, weddings, etc..........advanced class grads provided the backbone of support. Thank you for all of it. You, too, gave time away from your families and kids to help serve. You, too, got less sleep or carried burdens that you probably got very little thanks in return. Some of my fondest memories were with you. Heck, there was a time when things were less crazy that we went snow skiing together (Whistler, British Columbia, Canada) or those times of basketball, waterskiing, golf outings, movies, barbeques, etc. Many of you advanced class grads sponsored us thru the corps program.....even when we didn't write letters of thanks all that often. Some of you had businesses and offered employment to us wandering corps. I am indebted to so many advanced class grads who helped carry me when I was weary of heart. Thanks....you helped me in so many ways and changed my life and my family. .

A reason so many of those mini-mogs who were partaking in the "fruits" of leadership among our sisters in the faith fled like rats leaving a sinking ship after lcm was banished, is that it established a precedent that even at the most highest level, there was no true protection that twi could provide if someone spilled the beans on them and took them to court. I doubt Rosie would have footed the bill for their legal defense even if they were the trunk coordinator. Likewise, offshoots would be a natural fit and an easy transition for them to assimilate into, everything stays the same, no apologies needed, except vp is admired at a distance. Everyone I've ever met who partook in the free sex movement of twi, whether married, male or female, still do it, the only difference is they do it also with unbelievers now.