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So, to sum things up..... <sarcasm> There's nothing I'd rather do than go sit through multiple hours of an Animatronics version of Don Knotts teaching Jesus Christ - DOA and send him money </sarcasm>

Yes, Animatronics, Rocky. Thanks! That's what I was describing. Here's a good example: Walt Disney's "Carousel of Progress" display:

I don't think it's appropriate to read later documents back into earlier ones when it comes to establishing what people knew and when they knew it. You might be able to "get away with that" theologically, but not logically. In other words, the fact that Titus says there was a promise of eternal life before this world/age began does not establish that those who lived through Genesis knew it. I think you concede that point, but I wanted to make it more explicit. Regardless, we know Job believed in a life after this one, and we know he expected it for himself. We have no idea how he knew that or how he could "claim" it for himself, there being (probably) no "scripture" at all at the time he lived. But clearly it was an early belief. If you believe all scripture to be inspired by God, then I agree that Titus gives you a Biblical answer, of sorts, to my questions. But if you don't (and I don't), then you have to go chronologically by what's written and when to determine when and how this belief in an afterlife (and, by extension, a belief in salvation and its "requirements") emerged. P.S. The mods received a couple of complaints about a post on this thread. It was my belief that the post in question is gently poking fun at the discussion, not disrespecting it. Either way, it's not really off topic (and I'm usually pretty aggressive about what's on and off-topic, particularly when I'm engaged in the discussion).

my aunt took me to the 1964 World's Fair....only two things come out of distant memories: my aunt bought me a beret (i loved hats) - which i also lost later that day; and i saw a Sea Hunt themed detective show - in one of the halls they had a giant water tank with a huge viewing window - Loyd Bridges' voice over the speakers and a "detective" with a trench coat over his slim line air tank is in his underwater office with a desk, filing cabinet, etc. going through the motions of working on a case in sync with the voice-over - really dorky but i thought it was the craziest coolest thing back then since i watched the TV show.... Anyway - i know exactly what you mean about JAL's stiff manner; i've seen him teach several times and went to some corps promos he did; at the time i thought it was entertaining - but now consider his gig as nothing but all hype.....reminds me of a person i knew in high school who would launch into doing some stand up comic's routine - he'd have the lines, inflections, and gestures down pat - kinda funny and yet kinda not since it was an imitation...this guy wasn't naturally funny either - so it came across as just an act....when i think of JAL now i imagine he may think of himself as a consummate salesman for god. (intentional lower case on God spelling)

I think you were describing Animatronics. And I probably couldn't come up with a better description of JAL. I've thought for a long time that he has seemed inauthentic.

Good stuff DWBH. Works-based so-called christianity will always leave a person empty and unsatisfied. The genuine article puts the capital "C" back in Christ, makes him Lord in reality and is all about living a relationship with Him. Something these antichrists know nothing about flapping their jaws in the breeze and setting themselves up to be the mediator to cure your works problem, which of course will involve sending them money, because all that hot air making is hard work and deserves compensation, don-cha-know....