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Yes WordWolf, One of my very favorite songs. Hopes the memories are good ones. Your answer, of course, is spot on. Your go!

Skip Mesquite - RIP <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

if the psalms were originally written to be sung by those who are suffering and dying...it could be that jesus was actually singing the words of the psalm that expressed what he was feeling in those moments before his death. that one feels it was somehow wrong or invalid thing for Jesus to say (or feel or think) may be a sign of their own inability to touch, hold and handle the very real and valid feelings we experience in the face of suffering. as if a tribe is in the deepest kinds of trouble when their eldest are the first to run from fire and shadows.

why should the "leaders" of twi splinters/offshoots be held accountable for their continued adherence to the teachings of vic?............because until they remove the presence of vic from their consciousness of god, and vic's "understanding" of the word "as it has not been known since the first cfentury" is no longer the theological foundation for their "biblical researvch" and teaching, regardless of how many errors they claim to have corrected, they willfully perpetuate the "ministry" and teachings of their "father in the word"...........and, in so doing, they perpetuate the hurt to and abuse of far too many members in particular of the body of christ!........... these various "christian leaders" tout their non-denominationalism in order to cover the anti-denominationalism they inherited from their "father-in-the-word"..........they've also adopted his anti-intellectualism and pride when it comes to their professed ability to "accurately" research, study, teach and "manifest" "god's word" better than your church can or does.......they need to stay close to the doctrines and practices that have "earned them a living" through these years of distancing themselves from the "sins" of vic without cutting off the financial benefits of supplying vic's hapless former followers with enough of his old , watered down teaching to keep 'em "inspired" to give!..........after all, who ordained these guys?.......how many have gone on to legitimate, fully accredited and recognized seminaries to acquire professional, christian training in order to effectively and honestly minister to god's people??.............until they do, their "ministries" are destined to repeat the mistakes and patterns of spiritual abuse programmed into the false doctrines vic drilled into their collective consciousness!...........after all, these guys all started out "helping" twi refugees in the late 1980's and through the 90's , as the doofus from okie was busy purging twi of all debbil spurts along with any normal human beings still functioning behind the walls of zion in his bizzarro world of the "present truth"!................lots of them had a quick answer for the twi refugees who wanted to know where they should send their "abundant sharing", did'nt they??..............several enjoyed the "miracle" of the believers or a believer buying them a house, or building them a church............what were these believers believing back then???.................pfal etc.?...............oh yeah..............can't kill that "cash cow", so we'll raise our own, and of course, we'll get people's believing up by charging for it.......and we'll have meetings, and home fellowhips, and classes, and bible land tours, and lots of events to keep everybody busy "moving the word", and we'll write books , and we won't make mistakes with god's people, and we will continue to rightly divide the word until christ comes back, and..............and................... here's a quote from a letter from john lynn, one of the signers of that 37 page letter that caused such a stir 21 years ago................this quote is from a letter posted at the cesonline site, and recently linked to by a poster on the "who are these people" thread..........it's very interesting to compare this letter, revised in september, 2007, with the letter from john posted on the same site dated march, 1988.............here's the quote from the september, 2007 letter: "In closing, let me say that I honestly believe that Dr. Wierwille (TWI Founder) would be very proud of what we are doing. We have taken the keys to the Word's interpretation that he taught us and used them to evaluate his own teachings, correcting those that did not agree with Scripture. We have never lost sight of the goal of moving the Word around the world. If that is still your goal, or if you think there is any way we could be of service to you, please do not hesitate to contact us." so, john honestly believes vic would be "proud" of what he, schoenheit and graeser have done and are doing, eh?..........what in the hell does that mean???is that some kind of feather in your ministry's cap?...............more like a scarlet letter, imho!..............but, at least he's giving credit where credit is due!..........which is more than i can say for cff, and many other offshoots who spend a lot of time and effort covering up the wierwille roots of their existence and belief systems! imho, that's why greasespot is here! at least there's one place in this information culture where you can get the real story about vic and his progeny, without the twists and turns, or rationalizations necessary to promote your own "secret agenda"!...........the reality brew is the best cup o' joe available in cyberspace if you wanna get the other side of the story about twi and vic's pack of mini-cults busily moving his word over the world.................i wonder if vic would be proud of those of us who "waste our time" posting here?......i think jesus christ might be...............................peace.

hello fellow greasespotters!............oh yeah, it was "BIG" alright!..................and yet, as big as it was, it was only the most obvious "tip of the iceberg" of the endemic and profound doctrinal and practical error with which vic thoroughly and throughly,(sic!), corrupted the whole of twi!...........he surrounded himself with "leaders" whom he "owned", as ham put it, because they shared the same guilt as he did, and earned that guilt by their acceptance and practice of vic's personal perversions as truth, and "proper" conduct for the mogs!......this profound and utter betrayal of the trust and innocence of their brothers and sisters in christ is at the root of their vicious rejection of christian scripture. vic revelled in his role as "father in the word"........he loved dropping hints that he was "the 14th apostle"..........he feasted on the adulation of his youthful followers,and the energy of their "enthusiastic believing",............he needed the strength of their purity to replenish his own bankrupt soul, devoid of any genuine, developed, moral compass of his own, despite all those decades of "biblical research" and speaking in tongues! that's why the topic of the first thread i initiated here at the greasespot was "forgiveness".............imho, the pastoral epistles, as well as numerous scriptures throughout the OT, gospels and the NT, require of persons who assume "leadership positions" in the communities of "god's people", moral and behavioral standards that are quite plainly prescribed for them in order that they may indeed remain, "above reproach"!..........these "moral prescriptions" are therefore "godbreathed", and thus, within the confines of even twi theology, are irrefutable, immutable, and irrevocable, since they reflect the omniscient "mind of god".............this now places vic, the doofus from okie, and every other "leader" i mentioned in the first post on that first thread of mine in september of 2007.at "lagerheads" with god himself..............that's the commitment arena............the commitments to god to live according to the "stricter" demands required of the "lifestyle of leadership" is not between the leaders and those they lead...........it's between the "leaders" and their god, the father of jesus christ!...............the benefits to the believers are the "by-products" of the "leaders'" faithfulness to his/her commitments to god as prescribed quite specifically by god in the pastoral epistles...........if these "leaders" break those commitments, they are responsible to god to repent, and then ask god for forgiveness, as well as reconcile with the believer(s) that were injured or offended...............none of this was ever considered by twi "leaders" let alone attempted!..............this then obviously begs the question, to whom were vic, et al "committed"???................they were certainly arrogantly, self-deluded into thinking they could "hide" these perverted "doctrines" from the "believers".............but did they think they could "hide" from god???..................the answer to that is either "yes", or, they themselves were firmly convinced that indeed, their personal perversions were "godly", and proof of their immense "spiritual maturity" as well as proof that their "precious lives" were a "gift to god's people"!!..............as incredible as it seems, the latter was true then, and still is today for rosie, martindale, and everyone else who accepts vic as a "man'o'gawd"! if you've read schoenheit's adultery paper, you too must wonder why he was fired for writing it, along with mirabito, hickmann, bo, and smith?..........what was so wrong about that paper??............how many are still "possessed" from reading a paper that any 6th grader could understand?......what were twi and geer seeing that "contradicted" what vic taught?? that's why that 37 page letter was viewed with such hatred and disdain by geer and the twi bot, and the "yak twig"!.........the authors of that letter went out of their way to avoid casting any aspersions at vic and spent so much time praising and quoting him...........it was a last-ditch effort to try to get the "top leadership" of twi to come together and deal with the most glaring doctrinal errors embedded in their "ministry".................line up everything with "the word" and get twi rolling again................reading that letter today is like reading a post from oldiesman or whitedove, (no offense intended fellas!).......it's that innocuous in terms of "attacking" vic or even the bot for that matter!...........and yet, the reaction was the firing of the lynn's, and the widespread and meanspirited defamation and disinformation campaign against the others who participated in the letter thing. unfortunately, back then, twi was able to control the "spin"........there was no internet, there was no "organized" alternative "ministry"............it's also why there are still a large number of folks in twi and its splinters/offshoots, who owe a large number of believers at least an honest attempt at reconciling these issues, imho............it's also why they'll never get one! so, imho, for all you "leaders" out there, mentioned in so many various threads around the greasespot cafe, living in nice homes paid for by believers, or living at a way nash "root locale", or otherwise believer provided property, or running "ministries" that perpetuate "the word" vic taught you by charging for your own versions on tape, cd, video, dvd, etc., etc., etc.,........of his pfal class, and the rest of his "biblical research principles", and the other books vic "wrote", or making up your own hurtful doctrinal and practical errors.................take a "check-up from the neck up"............why do you still teach this crap???................the integrity of your "word" is buried with vic at that gawdy fountain!!............how are you different?.................peace.