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How bout the more subtle version then? If only God would bless them as he has us...sigh. Or the one out of Wierwille's own mouth which went something like,"They are blessed just to have you in their communities...that's right!"

No problem RobertErasmus. I do very much enjoy your sharings. But I do like the doctrinal section here and don't want anyone to be intimidated to say what they think. Of course there are going to be disagreements. The doctrinal section here to me is simply the Body of Christ talking among itself. And its lovely. Its also something we never could have done in TWI because we were all in lockstep to VPs doctrine. I find it very interesting where people's spiritual quests have taken them after TWI and how their view of the Bible has evolved. I think God works with us in different ways. Yes, I know exactly what my view of the Bible is called and trust me, I didn't arrive there overnight, it was more like decades - but I see it in everything I read in the Bible - to me - it is obvious. To others - something else is obvious. As I said, we are the Body of Christ talking among ourselves, and I love it.

Well, Mr. RobertErasmus, from my study, I do not believe tongues today is what it was then. You can call my opinion "poppycock" all you want, but you have just lowered yourself to me. If you can't speak and have intelligent discussion here on doctrinal without insults, so be it. I'll just skip over your "poppycock" posts in the future. For others: The Disciples were commanded by Jesus to spread the news of the coming Kingdom to the world. Thus, they believed he was coming back shortly, as evidenced by their asking him in his resurrection body, will you restore the Kingdom now? i.e., ok, is it coming now? He sent them out - their "Great Commission". In order to witness to the world in a short time (because they believed the Kingdom was coming shortly, and it would have if Israel had repented and believed as Peter instructed - it was literally "at hand"), they needed to be able to speak other peoples' languages - which they did at pentecost and during the Book of Acts. I believe the manifestation of interpretation was when they were preaching to people via tongues, in their language, and there were others standing near who didn't understand, thus, interpretation was needed. For example, me and my friends speak english. One of my friends is speaking to a group that doesn't speak english via tongues, that non-english group understands and is getting blessed, but me and my english speaking friends have no clue what's being said - thus, someone needs to interpret. We live in an age of grace that was not prophesied about or spoken of in the OT. We as believers are not called to the earthly Kingdom that is to come, nor to the City - the Heavenly Jerusalem that will descend from heaven to earth. We are called, in the age of grace, to live in the "heavenlies." I believe tongues - as it was practiced in Acts - is not the same as what we were taught by VP. We are not commissioned to preach the coming kingdom as it is now held in abayance since Israel rejected their Messiah. I also believe the Holy Spirit has a different "function" in this administration than the last and the one to come. Just my "poppycock."

'Tis true, so true. I guess I'm at a place in life where I'm just vomitus about their shi+, seriously just so sick of it, tired of it and have zero time for any of it. I like understanding that whatever they want to do, say to me, it's not my problem.

he, games are easier when the goal posts move toward you.

God first thanks Gen-2 yes my friend we can understand tongues by dreams but can we understand the serpent by understanding God Eve was tempted by serpent but was she really tempted or was a lesson from to teach right from wrong when we see the serpent has not bad or good just a lesson God is showing us the lesson comes more important then what we think of the serpent God teaching about love because wants us to learn it good where we only love with love and a holy kiss Roy

Happy Birthday call last night that was a blast from my past and she said "you sound sad, are you sad?" I said "no, not sad, I'm pizsed off" She said "negative thoughts and feelings? You know better, we'll be believing for you" The next thing she heard was "if you'd like to make a call, please hang up and dial your number again" Yeah, that cheered me up

Some of the accounts in the OT make me laugh. You have God in Exodus 20 telling Moses I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Seems God is taking credit here. . . . almost like He wasn't dependent on Moses raising the staff or something. Then in 32 The LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. But then Moses comes back with No, No, No . . . YOUR PEOPLE... YOU DID IT! "O LORD," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? I know there is more to it, that in responding Moses is acknowledging God as the one who did(the exodus). . . . in pleading for Israel he is acknowledging they are God's people to do as He wills. Like Moses has any authority here other than appeal to God. Probably not meant to be funny. . . . but, it still makes me laugh. . . mine, no yours, no, really, they are yours. . . fine, we will just kill them and start all over.

nevermind

it was always about how much better we were than worldly people and yeah, there was plenty of criticizing people who had left or who wouldn't listen to the "word" we were speaking. there was also plenty of backstabbing other "believers" when they weren't around. the very best, though, was when I was getting divorced and the mother's day "teaching" was on Abigail and what a great woman she was because she put up with so much abuse from her husband and still stood by his side and that's why god was able to bless her so much. sorry, gonna go barf now.

Nope. Back in my day, it was unacceptable to talk about anything "negative". "Your car just breathed its last breath? Well, praise God! He must be getting ready to bless you with any even better one!"

I thought it said Belching and moaning, so I thought it was in referance to....umm well, something else. Betching, moaning, screaming, hollaring, denying, complaining, accusing, bemoaning, bi+ching, lying. Yeah, I recall. If someone is having sex, the twi folks are having better sex. If someone is having a meal, the twi folks are eating better. If someone is excreting, twi folks have a gold seat on which to put their snobby azs. If someone is driving a red truck, the twi folks' truck is redder. The world sucks, we have to live in it and we have to tolerate the worlds crap. Blah puke

If any of us didn't notice that behavior from our wayfer days Bolshevik, it might be simply because we don't remember doing exactly that.

The abused most certainly exist. The damage was and is real. If you are here to diminish the actions of twi leadership, this probably isn't the place for you.