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VPW---polygamist or just another dirty old man? In Christian Family and Sex, Wierwille stated that sexual intercourse is always (yes, he said "always") a spiritual event. In addition, he said that it creates a deep and lasting spiritual bond between the participants. (This, he said, is why it is crucial that believers never have sex with unbelievers.) He went on to say that marriage, in a biblical sense, is defined by the act of consummation, not the laws of men. The implied conclusion is that if you have intercourse with someone, you are married to them in a biblical sense. So the question this raises is this---- Now that we know Wierwille had sex with dozens, if not scores, of young Way women, does that make him a polygamist or just another dirty old man who spouted jibberish to serve his own private agenda?

Here's a bit of a musical interlude----- "The preacher used to preach to try to save souls But now he's preachin' just to buy 'jelly roll' He calls that religion but I know he's goin' to Hell when he dies Old Deacon Jones was a preachin' The King. They caught him 'round the house tryin' to shake that thing He called that religion but I know he's goin' to Hell when he dies." From 1928 -----The Mississippi Sheiks

"He may have said it elsewhere, as well; but he did say it at the Advanced Class in Athens, OH. (I was there.)" Thanks, George...so that's where I heard it! I was there as well. And geisha, there are oh-so-many phrases that are barf-worthy, aren't there? Instead of "Lifelines" there should be a booklet of vp quotes titled "Lecherous Lines". Really, you guys...let me know if any of you get hooked on "Big Love"...I ended up buying the series so I could get T-Bone hooked on it too.

My take on it is that he was a dirty old man who convinced himself his pee-nis was like a golden caduceus...delivering spiritual healing to the masses. I can't place where I heard him say this, but I remember he said of the unbeliever's pee-nis that it was unworthy of a woman of god's v&%i*a, and that she should have a real man of god...and I remember that creepy beaming smile when he said it. Was it in CF&S or at Rome City campus or in some meeting? Not sure of the location, but I know he said it. While I'm at it, if you guys haven't seen it, HBO's Big Love is a wonderfully entertaining series that deals with polygamy and religious fervor and the like.

That's some f*cked up ..... I had no idea the degree of depravity this VPW dip.... and his minions were engaged in until I discovered the GS web site a couple of months ago. Prior to joining this forum I had thought it to be a good Christian ministry. Anyway, whatever...the guy's dead. TWI never wronged me personally. All I lost to TWI was a girlfriend a long time ago (actually, it goes deeper than that, but never mind). Many of you have suffered much deeper wounds, some less. At any rate, the word on VPW's malfeasance seems to have been out for some time now. Allegations have been made, lawsuits have been filed. Hopefully he and that Martindale scumbag will be judged harshly for their actions and the ministry will fall apart under the weight of its own ugly baggage. P.S. Obviously, VPW and his minions weren't the first holy men -- of any religion -- to prey on women and/or children. And they won't be the last. It's good to remember that.

I see where you're coming from biblically, but I just don't see it in the observable world. I see no difference in general between Christians and non-Christians in any category; no difference between what a Christian "receives" and what a non-Christian "receives". The only difference is who gets the credit.