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from "faith" to "faith" to "faith" to "faith"...our sense of "self" sure does seem to leap and move from time to time as if womb-to-tomb, life is an ongoing series of profound humiliations...each enlightenment being a seed for the humiliation to come good luck, DWW...and congrats

After torturing my mind with twisting train wreck logic, stretching verses to their excruciating outer limits, and rationalizing it all with mystical spiritualism, I figured why can't I just "chuck the whole thing"? I love Alanis thanks! And isn't it ironic... :)

I hope this doesn't seem lame sending you a song from you tube but it was a song I use too listen to full blast with headphone on while in the hospital at Sheppard Pratt trying to figure out stuff after getting shots of thorazin! (fOR THROWING MY SHOES IN THE QUIET ROOM AND SCREAMING "I DON'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING!!!) <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>You are not alone in how you feel! I'm glad you have the balls to speak openly about this because so so many people can't.

I don't think its that serious and all.. I've gone through something like this, and it didn't kill me or anything..

No way! Red drapes are what killed that little boy in PLAF (The Wonder Class). See, when he got hit by the car, the lady in the apartment across the street just happened to notice all the commotion. She yanked those red drapes off the rod and ran out to the street to use them as a make-shift stretcher. In her haste, she ran right into the path of an oncoming septic tank cleaning truck. He swerved to miss her and, well, you already know the outcome.

I'm an "eleven".. I don't know how much sense this all makes.. I'm as stable (spiritually) as water.. it absolutely drives others, including family and friends, and myself, NUTS.. but I know who I am.. it might be very, very small.. but yes, that's who I am.. the vision I saw.. it was one place I belonged..

Like Ham said. So what if you don't believe in Jesus? Sixty seven percent of the World's population professes to NOT believe in Jesus.---- HERE---- And, you have to think that at least some of the other 33%, who say they do, are only doing so to placate someone else.

I hope there is a happy ending to all of this.. there was one for me.. suppose you found all you believed was wrong.. so friggin what.. is there joy and gladness in this.. or mourning.. the key question is, what do you do, NOW.. I was lucky.. I keep looking.. where will the path lead.. every dream I've had has come to pass.. except for the last one.. I'm in a very tall building.. everyone else around me is clothed in white.. the building is made of twenty meter tall glass walls.. only made of glass.. we are all clothed in white.. what is it.. the closest this relm has had to offer.. heh.. About 600 of us.. clothed in Black..

It seems the more forward I walk the more I realize I am still standing still. How do you resolve a contradiction but with a conundrum.

Now if you can just maintain that attitude in a holding pattern for an indefinite period – you may be in for some surprises. imho, that's when the real adventure starts. I've gone through several crises of faith since I left TWI and think I'm better off because of it. Don't get me wrong – not suggesting I'm some kind of standard or norm for leaving a cult or that you're having a crisis of faith. I'm just saying that you might be experiencing a type of breakthrough similar to what I've had – several times as a matter of fact. And maybe my choice of words "crises of faith" is not appropriate for what you're feeling – because I don't want to imply your experience is a typical of a Christian's period of intense doubt or inner conflict over matters of faith and you'll snap out of it.. . .. .but anyway – and let me preface this by saying I could be VERY WRONG since I'm not an expert on anything other than my own personal journey – you may be describing a personal breakthrough of conventions – the conventions being some acceptable norm for processing the Bible, a residual mindset from association with some group or whatever. Just been rambling here – sorry if I'm going all over the place – but your two posts really touched a nerve with me in a good sense, mind you–and a lot of this I merely write for my own benefit – articulating some growth I'm experiencing - – anyway, what you're going through is truly marvelous, humbling and genuine. Getting back to my own experiences – I may have had several like it. After I left TWI – a different method opened up to me of how to approach the Bible that took me down the road of systematic theology and comparing commentaries. Maybe it was getting familiar with the territory and learning about more options or other viewpoints – and starting to develop some critical thinking skills. But I think a whole other avenue of learning opens up when you dialog with other folks. And that's where Grease Spot comes in. That's where I've experienced several significant breakthroughs – pushing my critical thinking skills to another level – and it's definitely had an impact on the way I "process" my faith. I still consider myself a Christian but it would probably surprise some to hear me say some of my favorite Grease Spotters are NOT Christians [most notably Oakspear, GarthP2000, George Aar and Seth] – I always enjoy reading their posts. And not only do I appreciate their thoughtful input on threads – but perhaps more so because of their honesty & humility. And you really should check out other forums more besides doctrinal – you might enjoy visiting with folks. Now reading some of their posts - it's not a warm & fuzzy feeling like "I really got blessed at the Word you shared today in Twig, man!" Sometimes it's a jolt of espresso to wake me up, sometimes a friendly slap in the face from reality. Bottom line – it helps me process my faith in the context of the real world. I've covered a lot of ground – doctrinally speaking, since I left TWI – and I too feel like I'm farther from the truth then when I started – maybe it's just realizing how much I don't know or can figure out. But I've grown accustomed to the unsure nature of this journey. You are still someone – maybe not the someone you were before - in another mindset, perhaps becoming more genuine as you start to uncover the authentic self – and now can work on discovering your voice. I'm still discovering my voice – have a long way to go I imagine– it's changing a lot since I first joined Grease Spot a few years ago. Best wishes on your journey, hope to see you here in full blossom Love & peace T-Bone

Years of the word and I am farther from the truth than when I started. I don't believe in anything anymore other than I am alive and that is all I know. Religion is nothing but a farce and if God wants to make the truth known then why not show him/her self? Faith in God is nothing more than a delusion that distracts people from the reality that we are really alone.

So Tiger's wife tried to smash his brains in with a golf club. What guy hasn't had that happen?