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God first Debate! 10-21-2009 Do you know how a debate works? I give my side on a given subject then you give some reason not to agree with me. But I do hear people try to changed things by saying I am talking evil or change the subject to color. I get upset why would you think that because I get tired of saying, “love Roy” and end the subject but that does get us anywhere. I read every thing that is wrote to me and I look up words if needed many words where try to belittle me and other things. A friend that was trying to get my attention “My Confession – Magnus Betner @ Comedy2go” but it help more than one would think. Now this video is against my person’s believes but I got a laugh because I could see Jesus Christ wearing a dress. Now this video is a person’s view that I do not agree with but I can see where they coming from and how the person got there. It does not matter that I do not agree with his views but I listen to his heart and he heard my views. That is how a debate works a point is made that you may not agree with then you give opposing view about the point someone made. But it get to mad people can you not debate without getting mad do you understand what I am saying. Every question is a fare thing even if you do not the question and every question has a good repose to it there are many sides to everything. God has many points but so does Atheist have many points but just because my view is God’s view it does mean I do not want to listen to yours. I might say thanks or I might try to change your mind but I have a right to not agree with you. But you have no right no right call me names or change the point I gave you because you want to made me upset thank you with love Roy.

Fascinating. I think he is still deluded about where all this is coming from. Chockfull said this earlier today in another thread: "I think lying to people is just a facade for hate masked in nice words and smiles. It lasts until you say or do something they don't like, then the real them comes out with a knife in the back." Something to ponder.

Be not fooled. What waysider is saying is important and critical to our understanding of the history of TWI. One thing I want to add: many of us while we were "in" TWI mistakenly gave thanks to VPW and his group, TWI, for things and events for which we should have given thanks only to God. One of the major challenges in leaving TWI is untangling the big parts of our experiences during our association with TWI as if it were a gigantic ball of string. For me, this ball of string consisted of God (my perception of God), the gospel accounts of Jesus, the ministry of Paul, The Bible as a whole, VPW's beliefs, his personality, his strengths and his weaknesses, and overall moral conduct including his interpretation or misinterpretation of the Bible; TWI as an organization; the actions of followers trained by VPW; the overall context of VPW's belief system, which is Fundamentalism; the aspects of cult behavior, etc. The list goes on. Until we do this work, we will continue to see people give VPW undeserved credit for many positive things in our lives that happened during the years we just happened to spend associated with TWI. For all we know, they would have happened without TWI. There is a God outside TWI, after all. One of VPW's strengths was his ability to motivate people and get them to equate his organization with that of the Apostle Paul's. This was done indirectly and yet anyone who was around for any length of time got the hint. I do not remember a time when VPW deterred us from claiming his teachings and ministry saved our lives. IMO, rather than let that go on, he should have corrected this thinking and directed us to say God saved our lives, not him or his organization.

I wouldn't even go as far as saying he was teaching "The Word". What he was "teaching" was his own private, twisted philosophy with a Biblical veneer to feign credibility..

" don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized." Well, what about all the abortions that ensued under his teaching that it's not really "murder" anyway. In other words, it's not *really* killing. I'm not going to debate the issue on abortion here. That's another topic. But VP massaged the real issue by avoiding the subject that you were destroying a viable and healthy living being. And because he did, he masterminded the destrcution of many of his own offspring. But hey---he was teaching the Word, and that covers a multitude of sins....yeah right!

WARNING: I will use the word "YOU" in the writing below. If the shoe fits put it on, if it doesn't pass it to the next guy. Don't take it personally. But take it for what applies to yourself or others you know. This is not meant to offend any one person. I'm thankful Waysider had put this in. I also am quite aware that this was in 06. Great! What has changed??? Well, here I go again. Stirring up a bee hive. You know, for the past six to eight years that I have been out of TWI, I have heard people give VPW a lot of shxt about stealing other's works and taking credit for it. Did you notice one of the required reading books was "How to enjoy the Bible". Have you ever read it? It is like reading Shakespere on steroids. Did you ever realize by having you read it, he was showing you how to take what others had done and bring it into present application? He never hid his sources. He worked them until they were his own. I don't really care how many women he screwed or didn't or what he plagerized. Oral Roberts was a seasoned veteran as was Billy Graham. But they didn't reach me or you for that matter. Dr. Wierwille reached you with his ministry. Good bad or indifferent. Whether or not you stood one day or 20 years, no one else thought you were worth being reached. If you think it was an accident that you did not join Billy Graham's Crusade, well what are you doing now? Are you working with Billy Graham or Oral Roberts???? No! Nothing but bitching. Hell didn't you take the same Advanced Class I did? Don't you know what bitterness does to you spiritually? It will Fxxk you up!!! Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the link you had. I got blessed. I found nothing but truth in it. I don't care how many used the Red Thread teaching before. For me that (1978) was the first time I heard it and I was on Freaking Fire!!! I probably signed up 5 people for the class because of those teachings and I'm proud I did. I saw God pull of some major miracles in my life and the lives of those I was able to reach. I survived 3 brain surgeries. I should be dead. No one wants to credit God for my survival or the fact that I dealt with it according to the Biblical principles taught, but that is what happened. And for years, I come in here to connect and all I see is absolute hate. Some of you must have thrown away your Bible when you tossed the collaterals. I can understand you might be disgruntled enough to throw away the collaterals... I wouldn't do it...but I've known those who have....but why throw away your Bible also? Some of you use to know 200 plus verses in your mind. How many do you know today? Where's God in your life??? This concludes the YID editorial. Thank you and good nite.